I think this may deserve its own thread.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/05/saudi-arabia-and-bahrain-break-diplomatic-ties-with-qatar-over-terrorism
QuoteSaudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain break diplomatic ties with Qatar over 'terrorism'
Saudi Arabia said the move was necessary to protect the kingdom from what it described as extremism, reasoning that was echoed by Bahrain
Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain have broken off diplomatic relations and all land, sea and air contacts with fellow Gulf Arab state Qatar, in the region's most serious diplomatic crisis in years.
Saudi Arabia on Monday said the move was necessary to protect the kingdom from what it described as terrorism and extremism. The kingdom also pulled all Qatari troops from the coalition fighting the ongoing war in Yemen.
The official state news agency, citing an official source, said Saudi Arabia had decided to sever diplomatic and consular relations with Qatar "proceeding from the exercise of its sovereign right guaranteed by international law and the protection of national security from the dangers of terrorism and extremism".
Saudi Arabia cut all land, air and sea contacts with Qatar "and urges all brotherly countries and companies to do the same." Despite the order for the border with Qatar to be closed, Saudi Arabia said that it will continue to provide all services and facilities needed by Qatari pilgrims currently in the Kingdom.
The decision comes after Qatar alleged in late May that it was the victim of a sophisticated propaganda assault including the publication of a series of articles hostile to Qatar in the US and the hacking of the Qatar government website in a bid to undermine its standing in the Gulf and in Washington.
The hacking of the website led to the publication of false remarks by the emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, that purportedly had him criticising some leaders of fellow Gulf Arab states and calling for an easing of tensions with Iran. Qatar claimed there was "a hostile media campaign against the State of Qatar".
In response to the alleged comments by the emir, Saudi Arabia and the UAE both blocked Qatari-based news outlets, including Al Jazeera, from broadcasting in their territory.
Qatar is home to the sprawling al-Udeid air base, which is home to the US military's central command and some 10,000 American troops. It was not clear if the decision would affect American military operations. Central command officials did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Qatar has long faced criticism from its Arab neighbors over its support of Islamists. The chief worry among them is the Muslim Brotherhood, a Sunni Islamist political group outlawed by both Saudi Arabia and the UAE as it challenges the nations' hereditary rule.
Gulf countries led by Saudi Arabia fell out with Qatar over its backing of then-Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi, a Brotherhood member. In March 2014, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain recalled their ambassadors from Qatar over the rift.
Eight months later, they returned their ambassadors as Qatar forced some Brotherhood members to leave the country and quieted others. However, the 2014 crisis did not see a land and sea blockade as threatened now.
In the time since, Qatar repeatedly and strongly denied it funds extremist groups. However, it remains a key financial patron of the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip and has been the home of exiled Hamas official Khaled Mashaal since 2012.
Western officials also have accused Qatar of allowing or even encouraging funding of Sunni extremists like al-Qaida's branch in Syria, once known as the Nusra Front.
The row comes only two weeks after Donald Trump visited the Middle East to seal major defence contracts with Saudi worth $110bn, set up an anti-extremist institute in Riyadh and urge the Gulf States to build on an alliance against Iran.
Although it is unlikely Saudi Arabia would have instigated this action against Qatar without first informing the US, it is possible that Trump did not give the green light to such drastic steps.
The Saudis are in part countering the allegation of funding extremism, frequently made in Washington and in the past by Donald Trump himself, by pointing the finger at Qatar for funding terrorism.
Speaking in Australia, US secretary of state Rex Tillerson played down the seriousness of the diplomatic dispute, and said it would not affect ongoing counter-terrorism efforts.
"I think what we're witnessing is a growing list of irritants in the region that have been there for some time, and they've bubbled up so that countries have taken action in order to have those differences addressed."
Tillerson said the US was willing to act as a broker to assist in negotiations between the countries.
"We certainly would encourage the parties to sit down together and address those differences. If there's any role that we can play in terms of helping them address those, we think it is important that the GCC remains unified."
Tillerson, in Sydney for the annual AusMin four-way meeting between Australia's foreign and defence ministers and US secretaries of state and defence, said regional efforts to counter the threat of terrorism would be undiminished.
"I do not expect that this will have any significant impact, if any impact at all, on the unified - the united - fight against terrorism in the region or globally. All of those parties you mentioned have been quite unified in the fight against terrorism and the fight against Daesh, ISIS, and have expressed that most recently in the summit in Riyadh."
His comments came after Bahrain's foreign affairs ministry issued a statement early on Monday saying it would withdraw its diplomatic mission from the Qatari capital of Doha within 48 hours and that all Qatari diplomats should leave Bahrain within the same period.
The ministry's statement said Qatari citizens needed to leave Bahrain within two weeks and that air and sea traffic between the two countries would be halted. It wasn't immediately clear how that would affect Qatar Airways, one of the region's major long-haul carriers.
Bahrain blamed Qatar's "media incitement, support for armed terrorist activities and funding linked to Iranian groups to carry out sabotage and spreading chaos in Bahrain" for its decision.
The UAE's state news agency WAM reported the Emirates cut ties and gave diplomats 48 hours to leave the country, citing their "support, funding and embrace of terrorist, extremist and sectarian organisations". Abu Dhabi-based airline Etihad said it was suspending flights to Qatar.
Egypt announced the closure of its airspace and seaports for all Qatari transportation to protect its national security.
Egypt cut ties with Qatar, accusing the Gulf Arab state of supporting "terrorist" organisations including the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's state news agency reported.
Qatar had no immediate comment.
QuoteAlthough it is unlikely Saudi Arabia would have instigated this action against Qatar without first informing the US, it is possible that Trump did not give the green light to such drastic steps.
I wouldn't jump to such conclusions. Ivanka did get a 100 mil payout didn't she? Seems like a fair deal.
QuoteAlthough it is unlikely Saudi Arabia would have instigated this action against Qatar without first informing the US, it is possible that Trump did not give the green light to such drastic steps.
[/quote]
It's not like anybody's around at State to answer the phones anyway.
Middle East sees heightened production levels of traditional kitchen iron work.
Saudi Arabia is breaking with Qatar over funding of terrorism? Is this their attempt to corner the market?
So. How about that world cup then.
Quote from: Tyr on June 05, 2017, 10:06:13 AM
So. How about that world cup then.
A world cup in terrorism? That's just silly. :P
What is really going on here?
Quote from: Tyr on June 05, 2017, 10:06:13 AM
So. How about that world cup then.
That was my thought too. FIFA is awesome.
Quote from: DGuller on June 05, 2017, 08:04:53 AM
Saudi Arabia is breaking with Qatar over funding of terrorism? Is this their attempt to corner the market?
They are not backing the right ones, is my guess.
Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 10:15:21 AM
What is really going on here?
Qatar is too friendly with Iran and supports some groups the Saudis and Egyptians don't like, e.g. Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood. The others also dislike Al Jazeera.
And here we discover a real advantage of being a dictatorship in the Trump era.
Trump is a pathetic man prone to be swayed by whoever sucks up to him the most. The Saudis, despite Trump's anti-muslim bias, roll out the red carpet for him. They even let him touch the orb.
European leaders, on the other hand, make snide remarks and imply he is stupid, as they are politicians, and their voters don't care for Trump and such behavior is in line with voter sentiment.
Hence, Trump is going to be fine with taking the Saudis side in ME politics and rolling over any progressive elements in the ME. But he is going to try to stop German car manufacturers from importing the cars they make in the US.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 05, 2017, 03:05:48 PM
And here we discover a real advantage of being a dictatorship in the Trump era.
Trump is a pathetic man prone to be swayed by whoever sucks up to him the most. The Saudis, despite Trump's anti-muslim bias, roll out the red carpet for him. They even let him touch the orb.
European leaders, on the other hand, make snide remarks and imply he is stupid, as they are politicians, and their voters don't care for Trump and such behavior is in line with voter sentiment.
Hence, Trump is going to be fine with taking the Saudis side in ME politics and rolling over any progressive elements in the ME. But he is going to try to stop German car manufacturers from importing the cars they make in the US.
This is why I would prefer Pence as president. Yes, Pence would be far more effective at inflicting internal damage to US, but that damage is far easier to undo than the geopolitical catastrophe Trump's stupidity will inflict on the entire civilized world.
Most credulous man on the planet claims responsibility for Qatar isolation:
QuoteUS President Donald Trump has claimed credit for the pressure being placed on Qatar by Gulf neighbours who accuse it of supporting terrorism in the region.
Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the UAE, Yemen, Libya's eastern-based government and the Maldives have all cut diplomatic and other ties with Qatar.
Mr Trump said he was told during his recent visit to Saudi Arabia that Qatar was funding "radical ideology".
He added that the visit was "already paying off".
Analysts say the timing of the move, two weeks after a visit to Saudi Arabia by Mr Trump, is crucial.
Mr Trump's speech in the Saudi capital Riyadh, in which he blamed Iran for instability in the Middle East and urged Muslim countries to take the lead in combating radicalisation, is seen as likely to have emboldened Gulf allies to act against Qatar.
"During my recent trip to the Middle East I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar - look!" Mr Trump tweeted on Tuesday.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40175935 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40175935)
Shouldn't he at least check to make sure this is a good thing for our interests before taking credit for it? Don't we have a huge base in Qatar?
Why is the US Central Command forward command center housed in a country that supportes terrorism?
Quote from: Zanza on June 06, 2017, 11:54:38 AM
Why is the US Central Command forward command center housed in a country that supportes terrorism?
'Cause it has to be somewhere in the Middle East.
Donald trying to withdraw from a military alliance via Twitter.
This has happened before :hmm:
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on June 06, 2017, 10:58:19 AM
Most credulous man on the planet claims responsibility for Qatar isolation:
QuoteUS President Donald Trump has claimed credit for the pressure being placed on Qatar by Gulf neighbours who accuse it of supporting terrorism in the region.
Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the UAE, Yemen, Libya's eastern-based government and the Maldives have all cut diplomatic and other ties with Qatar.
Mr Trump said he was told during his recent visit to Saudi Arabia that Qatar was funding "radical ideology".
He added that the visit was "already paying off".
Analysts say the timing of the move, two weeks after a visit to Saudi Arabia by Mr Trump, is crucial.
Mr Trump's speech in the Saudi capital Riyadh, in which he blamed Iran for instability in the Middle East and urged Muslim countries to take the lead in combating radicalisation, is seen as likely to have emboldened Gulf allies to act against Qatar.
"During my recent trip to the Middle East I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar - look!" Mr Trump tweeted on Tuesday.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40175935 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40175935)
Trump was trained by IS? They claim everything too.
I know next to nothing about the intricacies of the Sunni-Shiite, Arab-Persian relations in the Gulf, but isolating Qatar like this only leaves them Iran as a potential ally, no? That can hardly be the goal to have Iran as last friend of a country that houses 10,000 US servicemen?
Quote from: Zanza on June 06, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
I know next to nothing about the intricacies of the Sunni-Shiite, Arab-Persian relations in the Gulf, but isolating Qatar like this only leaves them Iran as a potential ally, no? That can hardly be the goal to have Iran as last friend of a country that houses 10,000 US servicemen?
Considering that this action will cause starvation and a crisis in Qatar I don't think this is going to be a long term situation. Whatever they want from Qatar they will get soon enough.
Quote from: Zanza on June 06, 2017, 11:54:38 AM
Why is the US Central Command forward command center housed in a country that supportes terrorism?
I guess that at the Pentagon they must be delighted with Trump's support for SA & its lackeys' action.
Quote from: The Larch on June 06, 2017, 02:32:33 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 06, 2017, 11:54:38 AM
Why is the US Central Command forward command center housed in a country that supportes terrorism?
I guess that at the Pentagon they must be delighted with Trump's support for SA & its lackeys' action.
Can't be long until Putin welcomes him in the golden Kremlin with something even more shiny than The Orb and tells him that the Ukrainians and Balts harbor terrorists.
The EU should create the Order of the Golden Bauble, give him a big shiny medal and scepter, and see if that distracts him enough to get the US back to a reasonable position.
We should welcome him in the Mirror Hall of Versailles and crown him honorary emperor of the Romans or so.
Quote from: The Larch on June 06, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
The EU should create the Order of the Golden Bauble, give him a big shiny medal and scepter, and see if that distracts him enough to get the US back to a reasonable position.
Nah - it seems deeply coded in Trump's DNA to suck up to dictators and anger long-term allies.
Oh look:
Quote from: CNNCNN Exclusive: US suspects Russian hackers planted fake news behind Qatar crisis
Washington (CNN)US investigators believe Russian hackers breached Qatar's state news agency and planted a fake news report that contributed to a crisis among the US' closest Gulf allies, according to US officials briefed on the investigation.
The FBI recently sent a team of investigators to Doha to help the Qatari government investigate the alleged hacking incident, Qatari and US government officials say.
Intelligence gathered by the US security agencies indicates that Russian hackers were behind the intrusion first reported by the Qatari government two weeks ago, US officials say. Qatar hosts one of the largest US military bases in the region.
The alleged involvement of Russian hackers intensifies concerns by US intelligence and law enforcement agencies that Russia continues to try some of the same cyber-hacking measures on US allies that intelligence agencies believe it used to meddle in the 2016 elections.
US officials say the Russian goal appears to be to cause rifts among the US and its allies. In recent months, suspected Russian cyber activities, including the use of fake news stories, have turned up amid elections in France, Germany and other countries.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/russian-hackers-planted-fake-news-qatar-crisis/index.html
Seriously? After he boasted about how great it was everybody was ganging up on the country our big military base is in?
This President is driving my to alcoholism.
I can only hope CNN is up to its normal level of journalism and there is nothing to this.
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2017, 07:33:57 PM
I can only hope CNN is up to its normal level of journalism and there is nothing to this.
To be fair to CNN, it was the Qataris (Quitarists?) that were blaming fake media for the reports over the weekend about the alleged pro-Iranian statements that started this mess.
So basically the Russians ran an operation seeking to knock out the us base in Qatar and trump completely fell to it
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
So basically the Russians ran an operation seeking to knock out the us base in Qatar and trump completely fell to it
Hell he took credit for it.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
So basically the Russians ran an operation seeking to knock out the us base in Qatar and trump completely fell to it
Only because he wants to strike a far better deal when he personally renegotiates a base deal with the Qataris; they'll probably have to end up paying for a wall surrounding southern Iran too. :cool:
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
So basically the Russians ran an operation seeking to knock out the us base in Qatar and trump completely fell to it
Hell he took credit for it.
You can't make this shit up. :lol:
This is surreal.
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
So basically the Russians ran an operation seeking to knock out the us base in Qatar and trump completely fell to it
Hell he took credit for it.
Amateur hour all around.
Quote from: The Larch on June 06, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
The EU should create the Order of the Golden Bauble, give him a big shiny medal and scepter, and see if that distracts him enough to get the US back to a reasonable position.
You are laughing but I seriously think something like that would work. Which is sad.
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
So basically the Russians ran an operation seeking to knock out the us base in Qatar and trump completely fell to it
Hell he took credit for it.
I really don't know if I should laugh or cry.
You remember how you read about bad emperors and kings messing up their empire for decades if not downright collapsing them? This is how the modern version of this looks like, folks.
Quote from: Syt on June 07, 2017, 04:14:38 AM
Amateur hour
That should be the title of Trumps biography.
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2017, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 06, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
The EU should create the Order of the Golden Bauble, give him a big shiny medal and scepter, and see if that distracts him enough to get the US back to a reasonable position.
You are laughing but I seriously think something like that would work. Which is sad.
Sadly, I don't think we can beat the Saudis and Russians in the gaudyness department.
Quote from: The Larch on June 07, 2017, 04:36:54 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2017, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 06, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
The EU should create the Order of the Golden Bauble, give him a big shiny medal and scepter, and see if that distracts him enough to get the US back to a reasonable position.
You are laughing but I seriously think something like that would work. Which is sad.
Sadly, I don't think we can beat the Saudis and Russians in the gaudyness department.
I thought the Italians were still on our side? :hmm:
Quote from: celedhring on June 07, 2017, 05:26:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 07, 2017, 04:36:54 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2017, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 06, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
The EU should create the Order of the Golden Bauble, give him a big shiny medal and scepter, and see if that distracts him enough to get the US back to a reasonable position.
You are laughing but I seriously think something like that would work. Which is sad.
Sadly, I don't think we can beat the Saudis and Russians in the gaudyness department.
I thought the Italians were still on our side? :hmm:
If it's done through official channels they would still do something tasteful. Unless you get Berlusconi's people on it.
Qataris may no longer use the airports in Dubai and Abu Dhabi at all, which means they have now more limitations than even Israelis which can stay in the airport for transfers.
Turkey just announced that they're fast-tracking a bill to deploy troops in a base they have in Qatar.
UAE threatens potential sympathizers with Qatar with up to 15 years in jail if they express such sympathy in any way, including social media.
Wait so Turkey is protecting Qatar?
I guess right now I just need to wait to hear what the US military is going to do since our clown President will just tweet whatever he thinks makes him look good.
This sounds a lot like Network Rail's excuse for delays, different type of leaves on the lines, this case it's the wrong sort of terrorist.
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2017, 04:29:04 AM
You remember how you read about bad emperors and kings messing up their empire for decades if not downright collapsing them? This is how the modern version of this looks like, folks.
Thinking of it as a one man problem vastly underestimates it. I think a more apt example is of formerly progressive empires being undone into irrelevance by the reactionary elements. We've got at least 30%+ of electorate that very consistently thinks that what is unarguably bad is really awesome.
Quote from: DGuller on June 07, 2017, 08:32:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2017, 04:29:04 AM
You remember how you read about bad emperors and kings messing up their empire for decades if not downright collapsing them? This is how the modern version of this looks like, folks.
Thinking of it as a one man problem vastly underestimates it. I think a more apt example is of formerly progressive empires being undone into irrelevance by the reactionary elements. We've got at least 30%+ of electorate that very consistently thinks that what is unarguably bad is really awesome.
Good point
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2017, 07:44:41 AM
Wait so Turkey is protecting Qatar?
I guess right now I just need to wait to hear what the US military is going to do since our clown President will just tweet whatever he thinks makes him look good.
Saudis are playing this brilliantly.
1)Blockade Qatar
2)Drive Turkey and Iran together to protect Qatar and counter KSA
3)???
4)Profit!
But I am sure they can rely on their steadfast ally The Donald, right? His promises must be worth something.
ISIS carries out attack in Iran, killing 12 and wounding 42: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/world/middleeast/iran-parliament-attack-khomeini-mausoleum.html
Looks like the ME is getting more exciting again. Makes sense, given the US is no longer providing anything resembling a steady hand on the rudder.
Yeah we have another thread about it. I use poor grammar.
Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2017, 12:35:05 PM
ISIS carries out attack in Iran, killing 12 and wounding 42: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/world/middleeast/iran-parliament-attack-khomeini-mausoleum.html
Looks like the ME is getting more exciting again. Makes sense, given the US is no longer providing anything resembling a steady hand on the rudder.
When was the last time the ME was dull? And when was the last time a steady US hand contributed to that dullness? :huh:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2017, 12:50:07 PM
When was the last time the ME was dull? And when was the last time a steady US hand contributed to that dullness? :huh:
It was pretty dull these last few years under Obama, I think.
I'm more referring to the US' clients and allies getting into a tiff amongst themselves - Qatar with the US base, supported by Turkey vs Saudi Arabia is only going to cause trouble for the US. Steady leadership could have - as I believe it has in the past - kept that conflict under wraps but now it seems to be bubbling up.
Seems to me the Saudi are trying to swing the US at their various enemies - including Iran - more aggressively. This seems more exciting than the dullness promised by easing of tensions between the US and Iran under Obama.
Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2017, 01:06:21 PM
It was pretty dull these last few years under Obama, I think.
I'm more referring to the US' clients and allies getting into a tiff amongst themselves - Qatar with the US base, supported by Turkey vs Saudi Arabia is only going to cause trouble for the US. Steady leadership could have - as I believe it has in the past - kept that conflict under wraps but now it seems to be bubbling up.
Seems to me the Saudi are trying to swing the US at their various enemies - including Iran - more aggressively. This seems more exciting than the dullness promised by easing of tensions between the US and Iran under Obama.
You mean civil war in Yemen, anarchy in Libya, a billion refugees paddling to Europe, that kind of dullness?
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2017, 07:44:41 AM
Wait so Turkey is protecting Qatar?
Erdogan is pro-Brotherhood.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2017, 01:14:16 PM
You mean civil war in Yemen, anarchy in Libya, a billion refugees paddling to Europe, that kind of dullness?
Point taken.
Still hostilities between US allies seems to add a new dimension to the excitement and indicate that the US is doing a poor job managing its interests.
The problem for the US in this area is various players in the ME not trusting the US to behave in a consistent manner or to do what it says it will do (on top of distrusting its motives to begin with).
This has been a problem for decades: think of Ronnie Reagan marching the marines into Lebanon, then marching them out again after the Beirut Barracks Bombing; various flip-flops over Saddam and Iraq; Obama's "red line" in Syria (that wasn't).
So this is nothing new.
The difference is that Trump, like Spinal Tap, turns the dial up to 11. No one can trust him to know what the hell his own government is doing, to understand basic facts, or to say the same thing from one tweet to the next: or that anything he says or posts has even an accidental relationship with the truth.
I wonder if the 100 mil to Ivanka's bank account was buy a free hand for the house of Saud to sort out the Middle East as they see fit, while they can still do?
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2017, 01:44:35 PM
I wonder if the 100 mil to Ivanka's bank account was buy a free hand for the house of Saud to sort out the Middle East as they see fit, while they can still do?
What's the $100M to Ivanka story?
Charitable donation I think.
C'mon Jake...
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/21/politics/saudi-pledge-trump-women/index.html
Sounds like the perfect time to investigate the Clinton Foundation.
The World Bank had to secure its US federal appropriation somehow. Luckily those guys are pretty familiar with third world style family kleptocracies.
I have read the Iraqi Kurds are going to have a referendum on independence. That's really what the whole region needed: the Kurds throwing their own shit straight into the fan.
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2017, 04:37:49 PM
I have read the Iraqi Kurds are going to have a referendum on independence. That's really what the whole region needed: the Kurds throwing their own shit straight into the fan.
I don't see Turkey letting that happen.
Dictators and corrupt Kings/princes squabbling over a relatively independent news organisation. <_<
Sounds a lot like the US and UK. :P
Trump May Not Have Known US Has 11,000 Troops in Qatar When He Bashed The Country (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/trump-may-not-have-known-us-has-11000-troops-in-qatar-when-he-bashed-country-on-twitter-report/)
And people still look at me funny when I insist that, yes, we are in fact all going to die. :smarty:
We are all going to die, just not today.
Quote from: Jacob on June 08, 2017, 06:30:52 PM
Trump May Not Have Known US Has 11,000 Troops in Qatar When He Bashed The Country (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/trump-may-not-have-known-us-has-11000-troops-in-qatar-when-he-bashed-country-on-twitter-report/)
He's a big picture guy.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 08, 2017, 06:30:52 PM
Trump May Not Have Known US Has 11,000 Troops in Qatar When He Bashed The Country (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/trump-may-not-have-known-us-has-11000-troops-in-qatar-when-he-bashed-country-on-twitter-report/)
He's a big picture guy.
It wouldn't be so bad if it was even just a paint by numbers one.
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2017, 08:13:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 08, 2017, 06:30:52 PM
Trump May Not Have Known US Has 11,000 Troops in Qatar When He Bashed The Country (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/trump-may-not-have-known-us-has-11000-troops-in-qatar-when-he-bashed-country-on-twitter-report/)
He's a big picture guy.
It wouldn't be so bad if it was even just a paint by numbers one.
The aid forgot to put the little plastic army man on the map.
He is waiting to turn in his cards for bonus armies.
Just sayin'
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-P8_8G12qSbM%2FT2EWy8WDEJI%2FAAAAAAAAChE%2FUtFg3h80R0c%2Fs1600%2FDSCN0294.JPG&hash=858fa306457a3e7e7c28e086b5d2a2af3d1551b3)
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2017, 08:14:30 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2017, 08:13:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 08, 2017, 06:30:52 PM
Trump May Not Have Known US Has 11,000 Troops in Qatar When He Bashed The Country (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/trump-may-not-have-known-us-has-11000-troops-in-qatar-when-he-bashed-country-on-twitter-report/)
He's a big picture guy.
It wouldn't be so bad if it was even just a paint by numbers one.
The aid forgot to put the little plastic army man on the map.
:D
I'd love to see the two maps Mrs Merkel drew for him.
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2017, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2017, 08:14:30 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2017, 08:13:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 08, 2017, 06:30:52 PM
Trump May Not Have Known US Has 11,000 Troops in Qatar When He Bashed The Country (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/trump-may-not-have-known-us-has-11000-troops-in-qatar-when-he-bashed-country-on-twitter-report/)
He's a big picture guy.
It wouldn't be so bad if it was even just a paint by numbers one.
The aid forgot to put the little plastic army man on the map.
:D
I'd love to see the two maps Mrs Merkel drew for him.
"Greater Germany" and the General Government.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2017, 08:19:06 PM
Just sayin'
/img/
I really don't see why people are so concerned about TEC-40054. The ships can just move over to the brown side of the strait.
Turkey ready to threaten to deploy troops to Qatar, their parliament rushed through the necessary legislation.
So anybody know what the US position on this crisis is? The US Senate would like to know and so do I.
Quote from: Valmy on June 08, 2017, 10:13:54 PM
So anybody know what the US position on this crisis is? The US Senate would like to know and so do I.
Continue to stir the pot and then negotiate a really awesome deal with those who emerge from the ashes.
Quote from: Valmy on June 08, 2017, 10:13:54 PM
So anybody know what the US position on this crisis is? The US Senate would like to know and so do I.
You, and the US Senate, should open a Twitter account and keep an eye on it. Seriously, put some effort into it.
I suppose on the plus side, this will be a short war since the US already effectively occupies Qatar.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 09, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
I suppose on the plus side, this will be a short war since the US already effectively occupies Qatar.
However, the Saudis occupy Trump International Hotel. #CHECKMATE
Anyone catch the Tillerson statement a few hours ago, from the few moments I caught, couldn't tell if he was making his plea to the Gulf potentates or if it included the White House as well.
Why are Republicans still supporting him?
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/337162-trump-blasts-qatar-for-funding-terrorism
QuoteTrump blasts Qatar hours after Tillerson urges end to blockade
President Trump on Friday chided Qatar for funding terrorism, remarks that could complicate U.S. efforts to ease the diplomatic crisis in the Persian Gulf.
"The nation of Qatar has unfortunately been a funder of terrorism, and at a very high level," Trump said during a press conference at the White House.
Trump's comments came just hours after Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called for all sides to de-escalate the conflict, and for other Arab nations to end a blockade against Qatar. Tillerson was in the White House rose garden during the remarks.
A senior administration official told reporters later Friday that Trump and Tillerson are "on the same page" when it comes to Qatar. Regarding the blockade, the official said Trump relayed his position privately to Gulf state leaders this week.
"What he said was consistent with what the secretary of State said," the official told reporters aboard Air Force One.
"He mentioned that he was concerned with the food issue, the family separation issue. But he's also very concerned about Qatar support for terrorist finance and for supporting extremist ideology and other things, and he wants to see that addressed, too."
On Monday Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain severed diplomatic relations with Qatar and closed all land, sea and air borders. The countries accused its government of supporting extremist groups such as Hamas, al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood, and for its relations with Iran.
Qatar has so far denied the allegations.
"I've decided, along with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, our great generals, and military people, the time has come to call on Qatar to end its funding," Trump said Friday.
"They have to end that funding and its extremist ideology in terms of funding. I want all of the nations to stop immediately supporting terrorism. Stop teaching people to kill other people and filling their minds with hate and intolerance."
Trump — who traveled to Saudi Arabia last month and met with numerous Gulf leaders at a summit of Gulf Cooperation Council nations — said several nations "came together and spoke to me about confronting Qatar over its behavior," following the conference.
Tillerson took a more diplomatic approach with the regional dispute earlier on Friday. In a four-minute speech at the State Department, he said Qatar needed to address its neighbors' concerns about terrorist financing, but asked Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Egypt to ease the blockade.
The United States relies closely on nearly all Gulf countries involved in the dispute for military operations in the region.
Saudi Arabia and Qatar both have funded rebels fighting in the Syrian civil war, and about 8,000 to 10,000 U.S. troops are at Udeid Air Base in Doha, Qatar's capital. Udeid Air Base is the largest U.S. base in the Middle East, the forward headquarters of Central Command and the staging area for much of the war against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).
Bahrain, meanwhile, hosts the U.S. Navy.
U.S. officials have sought to avoid taking sides in the dispute, but Trump earlier this week muddled the administration's message when he took credit for the decision to cut ties with Qatar, saying his speech in Saudi Arabia calling on Muslim countries to unite against terrorism and Iran was the reason.
"During my recent trip to the Middle East, I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar - look!" Trump tweeted Tuesday.
"So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off. They said they would take a hard line on funding .... extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!" he continued later.
The tweets blindsided top U.S. officials who had tried to downplay the issue.
Defense Secretary James Mattis and Tillerson on Monday told reporters it was up to the countries involved to work it out among themselves.
A Pentagon spokesman also on Monday said the United States was "grateful to the Qataris for their longstanding support of our presence and their enduring commitment to regional security."
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2017, 04:36:19 AM
Why are Republicans still supporting him?
1) Because he's the one holding the pen that signs bills into law,
2) offers the promise of getting their pipe dreams accomplished with little fuss, and
3) is not Hillary.
All those things are possible still while tearing him down
Quote from: Valmy on June 08, 2017, 10:13:54 PM
So anybody know what the US position on this crisis is? The US Senate would like to know and so do I.
Re-phrase the question.
Does the National Security Team have a position? Yes.
Does the State Department have a position? Yes.
Does POTUS have a position? He did, and then he found out we have a major air base there, and now I am not sure of his position.
My point being, we are far from having a unified 'voice' on this, and on many other matters.
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2017, 09:45:54 PM
Turkey ready to threaten to deploy troops to Qatar, their parliament rushed through the necessary legislation.
No surprise there - Turkey and Qatar have been bankrolling the SAME assholes for quite some time. Erdogan has effectively dismantled the Kemalist secular state.
Lol, Trump
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/20/us-saudi-arabia-qatar-embargo-trump?CMP=twt_gu
Quote
US rebukes Saudi Arabia over Qatar embargo in reversal after Trump comments
State department says it is 'mystified' by lack of clarity from Gulf states in latest sign of gap between Trump's comments and foreign policy
The US state department has issued a stinging rebuke to Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies saying they had failed to come up with a justification for the embargo they imposed on Qatar earlier this month.
The public and blunt criticism of Riyadh and the United Arab Emirates marked a sharp about-turn from Donald Trump's wholehearted backing for the embargo, and his accusations of terrorist funding against Qatar. It follows a increasing pattern in which the state and defence departments have pursued policies abroad that are far removed from Trump's rhetoric.
"Now that it has been more than two weeks since the embargo started, we are mystified that the Gulf states have not released to the Qataris, nor to the public, the details about the claims they are making toward Qatar," Heather Nauert, the state department spokeswoman said.
"The more that time goes by, the more doubt is raised about the actions taken by Saudi Arabia and the UAE," she added.
"At this point, we are left with one simple question: were the actions really about their concerns regarding Qatar's alleged support for terrorism? Or were they about the long-simmering grievances between and among the GCC [Gulf Cooperation Council] countries?"
Trump was feted by Saudi Arabia when he made Riyadh the destination of his first trip abroad as president, on 20 May. Riyadh declared its embargo on Qatar just over two weeks later and Trump made repeated statements in support of the move, appearing to take at face value Riyadh's justification that it was to punish Doha for its backing of terrorist groups.
In a tweet on June 6, Trump even appeared to claim credit for the blockade, suggesting it showed that his trip to Riyadh was "paying off"
"The nation of Qatar, unfortunately, has historically been a funder of terrorism at a very high level," Trump said in the Rose Garden three days later. "We have to stop the funding of terrorism."
But last week, the defence secretary, James Mattis, signed an arms deal in which the US sold Qatar 36 F-15 fighter planes, worth $12bn.
In her remarks on Tuesday, Nauert denied that the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, was taking a position that entirely contradicted the initial stance adopted by Trump.
"I don't think so at all. I think the president and the secretary both want to see this resolved. They want results, and let's see this resolved quickly," Nauert said. She added that Tillerson no longer saw any need to act as a mediator in the Qatar dispute.
Nauert said Tillerson had spent the two weeks since the embargo talking to the protagonists and regional leaders in person and on the phone, but no longer saw any point in continuing mediation.
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"The president had offered secretary Tillerson weeks ago to do that. At this point, we don't think that is necessary. We believe through the secretary's talks, through talking with those nations and hearing what they have to say, that they'll be able to work this out on their own," Nauert said.
She added: "There comes a certain point where you say, folks, let's get this done, let's get moving along. The secretary likes results."
Days before the embargo was declared, the Qatari state news agency was hacked and a report planted that quoted the emir as casting doubt on how long Trump would last in office, advocating closer ties with Iran and supporting Hamas. The report on 23 May was one of the pretexts for the punitive measures imposed on Qatar. Egypt and Bahrain also cut ties with Gulf nation.
On Tuesday, Qatar's attorney general claimed that the hack had come from the countries imposing the embargo.
"Qatar has evidence that certain iPhones originating from countries laying siege to Qatar were used in the hack," Ali Bin Fetais al-Marri told reporters in Doha.
He did not name the countries, but an FBI investigation is reported to have pointed towards Russian hackers hired by Gulf clients.
The Gulf dispute is just one of several issues on which the state and defence departments appear to follow a different tack from the president. The divergence is particularly evident in matters connected to Russia. Tillerson and Mattis, supported by most congressional Republicans, have insisted sanctions on Russia for its military intervention in Ukraine and annexation of Crimea, remain in place until the Kremlin withdraws its forces. Trump has quietly sought to have the sanctions lifted.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-turkey-saudi-idUSKBN19D0CX
QuoteTurkey sends Qatar food and soldiers, discusses Gulf tensions with Saudi
Turkey sent its first ship carrying food aid to Qatar and dispatched a small contingent of soldiers and armored vehicles there on Thursday, while President Tayyip Erdogan spoke with Saudi Arabia's leaders on calming tension in the region.
Turkey has backed Qatar after Saudi Arabia, Egypt and other Arab states cut all economic and diplomatic ties this month, accusing Doha of supporting terrorism, a charge it denies.
But Ankara, which has long tried to play the role of regional mediator, is also wary of upsetting its other allies, including Saudi Arabia. Turkey fast-tracked legislation on June 7 to allow more troops to be deployed to a military base in Qatar that houses Turkish soldiers under an agreement signed in 2014.
Five armored vehicles and 23 military personnel arrived in Doha on Thursday as part of the new deployment plans, Turkey's armed forces said in a statement, adding that the move was in the framework of legal measures regarding military training and cooperation between the two countries.
Some 88 Turkish soldiers were already in Qatar, according to the Hurriyet newspaper.
After the deployment, a joint exercise by Turkish and Qatari forces was expected following the Islamic Eid al-Fitr holiday, Hurriyet said. The number of Turkish soldiers sent to the Gulf state could eventually reach 1,000, it said, adding that an air force contingent was also envisaged.
The first Turkish ship carrying some 4,000 tonnes of dry food supplies, fruit and vegetables set off from a port in western Turkey's Izmir province at dawn on Thursday, state-run Anadolu news agency said. It cited the head of the logistics company delivering the supplies as saying it was expected to arrive in Doha in around 10 days.
Though Turkey has sent 105 cargo planes of supplies, Economy Minister Nihat Zeybekci said on Wednesday that it was not sustainable to maintain aid supplies through an air lift.
REGIONAL TIES
In supporting Qatar, Turkey was not trying to threaten anyone, Erdogan's spokesman said.
"We don't want any sort of tension with any Gulf state. We would also not want any of them to be in a row with each other. This has been our approach to this crisis since the beginning," Ibrahim Kalin told reporters on Thursday.
"In other words, if two of your friends, two neighbors are disagreeing with each other and if there is something you can do about this, it is perfectly natural to go into action."
Sources from Erdogan's office said the president spoke by phone overnight with Saudi Arabia's King Salman and new crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, congratulating the latter on his promotion.
"Agreement was reached on increasing efforts toward ending tension in the region related to Qatar," the sources said in a statement regarding the phone calls on Thursday. Erdogan and King Salman agreed to hold face-to-face talks at the G20 meeting in Hamburg next month, the sources said.
King Salman made his son next in line to the throne on Wednesday, handing the 31-year-old sweeping powers as the kingdom seeks a radical overhaul of its oil-dependent economy and faces mounting tensions with regional rival Iran.
I hope they're not, like, using any NATO stuff from the NATO account, what with them owing NATO.
One of the most interesting things is that this shows just how much the world needs the US. The US doesn't have a functioning president for five months and our allies are ready to go to war with each other.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2017, 07:55:46 AM
One of the most interesting things is that this shows just how much the world needs the US. The US doesn't have a functioning president for five months and our allies are ready to go to war with each other.
For the past 20 years or so I have been telling people who complained about the US' dominance over the world: when you see it go, you'll regret it.
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2017, 08:54:44 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2017, 07:55:46 AM
One of the most interesting things is that this shows just how much the world needs the US. The US doesn't have a functioning president for five months and our allies are ready to go to war with each other.
For the past 20 years or so I have been telling people who complained about the US' dominance over the world: when you see it go, you'll regret it.
:yes:
but do they listen? Of course not
You all can take care of yourselves.
STFU with that noise, asschimp. They can't. We have the piles of dead Germans to prove it.
They don't deserve us.
It's not about them.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 24, 2017, 09:09:56 PM
They don't deserve us.
We don't.
The thing is, when things go tits up for real you'll realize - too late - how good you had to too.
I'll be eating my Spam sandwiches while the world burns.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 24, 2017, 09:55:32 PM
I'll be eating my Spam sandwiches while the world burns.
So that's what the guy was talking about when he claimed that the living would envy the dead. :hmm:
Good thing I didn't mention the Potted Meat.
Relax guys, I'm sure China's ready to take up the reins of world leadership.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/25/erdogan-rejects-saudi-demand-to-pull-turkish-troops-out-of-qatar
QuoteErdoğan rejects Saudi demand to pull Turkish troops out of Qatar
Turkey's president condemns request as a 'very ugly approach' and dismisses other demands made of Qatar by Gulf states
Turkey's president has described as disrespectful a demand by Saudi Arabia and its allies that it withdraw its troops from Qatar as a step towards ending a deepening dispute with the besieged Gulf state.
Two days after the demand was made, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan instead reiterated his support for Qatar and described the 13 demands levelled at the Gulf country as preconditions to restore relations as being "against international law".
"To ask Turkey to pull out its troops from Qatar is firstly disrespectful behaviour towards us," he said in Istanbul on the first day of a three-day holiday to mark the end of Ramadan. "We don't need permission from anyone to establish military bases among partners. We endorse and appreciate Qatar's stance towards the 13 demands. It's a very, very ugly approach to try to interfere with our agreement."
Sharply escalating the worst diplomatic crisis among Gulf allies in decades, the Saudi led-alliance on Friday gave Qatar 10 days to comply with a list of demands, which included closing the state-funded broadcasting network, al-Jazeera, scaling back contact with Iran, removing Turkish troops from its soil and severing ties with the Muslim Brotherhood.
Qatar has said it will not comply with the demands, and Erdoğan's endorsement appeared to entrench Doha's position – setting the scene for a showdown on 3 July.
Saudi Arabia has not spelled out what it intends to do if the tiny nation refuses to align its foreign policy with that of its powerful neighbour and its allies. Riyadh and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) have already imposed a land, sea and air blockade of Qatar, strangling trade and forcing food shortages. The Saudi stance has become gradually more pointed, with senior ministers across the region accusing the Qatari ruling family of licensing the support of terrorism for decades.
Speaking in Abu Dhabi on Saturday, the UAE minister of state for foreign affairs, Dr Anwar Gargash, said the alternative to agreeing to terms with its neighbours would be "parting ways".
"Is Qatar ready for a new life without ties to KSA [Saudi Arabia], UAE and Bahrain? For a policy isolating it from its environment for the sake of supporting extremism?" he asked.
"To prefer a partisan extremist agenda and spend huge sums on that agenda and jihadist groups? After anger will come wisdom."
Addressing Turkey's involvement in Qatar, which stemmed from a bilateral defence agreement made in 2014 and ratified recently, Gargash said: "The Turks left Qatar over a century ago and now have returned. They have big interests in the region and we hope Turkey's priority will be its interests and not its ideology. But 1,000 or 2,000 Turkish troops show lack of confidence from Qatari government in its stability. Stability will come from integration with the neighbourhood."
The UK's foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, on Friday appeared to suggest that the demands levelled are unreasonable. "Gulf unity can only be restored when all countries involved are willing to discuss terms that are measured and realistic," he said. "The UK calls upon the Gulf states to find a way of de-escalating the situation and lifting the current embargo and restrictions, which are having an impact on the everyday lives of people in the region."
The Saudi-led boycott, which enlisted other GCC states and Egypt to isolate Qatar, was imposed several weeks after the high-profile visit to Riyadh by the US president, Donald Trump, during which he re-prioritised the kingdom over its main regional rival, Iran – the regional clout of which had risen after the Obama administration brokered a nuclear deal with Tehran.
Ever since, Riyadh has moved to enforce its newfound standing. Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood are seen by Saudi leaders and their allies as subversive threats. Doha has maintained a close relationship with the Brotherhood and had enjoyed warming ties with Iran.
US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said in a statement on Sunday that some of the demands on Qatar "will be very difficult to meet", but did not reject them outright.
He called on Qatar and the other Arab countries to "sit together" to work through the list. Tillerson had previously insisted any demands be "reasonable and actionable."
So who the fuck do we root for?
Quote from: Razgovory on June 26, 2017, 07:13:40 AM
So who the fuck do we root for?
I am on nobody's side since nobody is on my side.
But Qatar. Though I am sure they are horrible horrible people.
I'm still not sure I understand the proper way to pronounce "Qatar". It seems to be fairly accepted to pronounce it like "Cutter" but that just doesn't seem right to me.
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2017, 10:14:26 AM
I'm still not sure I understand the proper way to pronounce "Qatar". It seems to be fairly accepted to pronounce it like "Cutter" but that just doesn't seem right to me.
That is the way the US military guys kept saying it during the Iraq war so that is what I go with.
Quote from: Valmy on June 26, 2017, 10:16:07 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2017, 10:14:26 AM
I'm still not sure I understand the proper way to pronounce "Qatar". It seems to be fairly accepted to pronounce it like "Cutter" but that just doesn't seem right to me.
That is the way the US military guys kept saying it during the Iraq war so that is what I go with.
Cool-- did you also abbreviate Mogadishu to "Mog'"? :P
I think the locals say ka tar.
During Gulf War 1.0 Tom Brokaw asked a local dude and it sounded to me in between cutter and gutter.
Quote from: citizen k on June 26, 2017, 10:21:51 AM
I think the locals say ka tar.
I used to say it that way but I understood that was wrong, though to be fair I don't recall how or why I thought that.
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2017, 10:19:34 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 26, 2017, 10:16:07 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2017, 10:14:26 AM
I'm still not sure I understand the proper way to pronounce "Qatar". It seems to be fairly accepted to pronounce it like "Cutter" but that just doesn't seem right to me.
That is the way the US military guys kept saying it during the Iraq war so that is what I go with.
Cool-- did you also abbreviate Mogadishu to "Mog'"? :P
Well that one is just how its spelled so no need to turn to the military for cultural assistance :P
Having transited in Doha with Qatar Airways twice last month, I'd say it is along the lines of "Kattar" - stress on the first syllable, not on the second and clearly an a sound.
Danke.
Quote from: Valmy on June 26, 2017, 10:30:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2017, 10:19:34 AM
Cool-- did you also abbreviate Mogadishu to "Mog'"? :P
Well that one is just how its spelled so no need to turn to the military for cultural assistance :P
He goofs on it, but you can bet your
bolas his gaucho ass rolls those R's like a motherfucker at home.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 26, 2017, 10:43:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 26, 2017, 10:30:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2017, 10:19:34 AM
Cool-- did you also abbreviate Mogadishu to "Mog'"? :P
Well that one is just how its spelled so no need to turn to the military for cultural assistance :P
He goofs on it, but you can bet your bolas his gaucho ass rolls those R's like a motherfucker at home.
Been doing that since 9th grade Spanish. I was well-known for my R's. Seriously.
That said, when my mother in law is around, I do my best to mispronounce everything just to provoke her.
Pass the Door-rhee-toes, Mama.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 26, 2017, 07:13:40 AM
So who the fuck do we root for?
I tend to be slightly more sympathetic to Qatar, Turkey, and Iran in this one notwithstanding their many many shortcomings.
My reasons are:
1) I find the Saudi family particularly loathsome.
2) Saudi Arabia is acting like a big bully here.
3) All things considered, I consider Al Jazeera a net positive. The Saudi family using the threat of military force and the implementation of economic sanctions to shut down a press organization it doesn't like is not ok from my point of view.
I tend to agree...SA going after anybody for religious extremism/terrorism is a pretty big eye-roller.
Fair enough. I wonder if Saudis asked Trump's permission before they did this. If he gave the go-ahead then he is one stupid SOB. I guess it would be kinda neat to see what would happen in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt went to war with Iran and Turkey. At least in a wargamer sort of way. Probably less neat in the "lots of people would die" sense.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 26, 2017, 12:54:13 PM
Fair enough. I wonder if Saudis asked Trump's permission before they did this. If he gave the go-ahead then he is one stupid SOB. I guess it would be kinda neat to see what would happen in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt went to war with Iran and Turkey. At least in a wargamer sort of way. Probably less neat in the "lots of people would die" sense.
In terms of public signalling, Trump's bit about "look I struck a blow against terrorist funders, and by terrorist funders I mean Qatar! Aren't I great" while visiting the Saudi family certainly seemed like a go ahead. Of course, he may have been too dense to realize that's what he did... or alternately, not cared either way using his standard scheme of suggesting course implying things to cause chaos and claim credit or deny it afterwards depending on how things shake out.
Qatar uses Arabic "qaf" I think. The pronunciation I learned is weird - kind of like saying a cross between a k and a g, with the letter stuck in the back of the throat.
This looks kinda serious, but I'm not a good judge of these things. Is this Ultimatum thingy serious?
Quote from: Razgovory on June 26, 2017, 03:37:33 PM
This looks kinda serious, but I'm not a good judge of these things. Is this Ultimatum thingy serious?
I dunno... if Qatar rejects the ultimatum - as it seems they have - the Saud family has to either back down and swallow whatever reputational cost that comes with, or follow through somehow.
Why do I get an Austria to Serbia vibe from their ultimatum list? I'm definitely behind Qatar in this mess.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on June 26, 2017, 06:13:25 PM
Why do I get an Austria to Serbia vibe from their ultimatum list? I'm definitely behind Qatar in this mess.
That would imply Trump's White House* is Imperial Germany, Turkey as France, Egypt as the Ottoman empire, Iran as Russia, Pakistan is Italy, India possibly a more distant British empire and nobody playing the role of Woodrow Wilson's America**.
* I think it's important to start making the distinction between that condo vs America and Americans at large, not that that will stop Americans getting killed in the line of duty for Trump's latest folly.
** just for shit and giggles, say what about Putin's Russia. picking up the choice pieces after the region has gone to hell in a handcart?
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on June 26, 2017, 06:13:25 PM
Why do I get an Austria to Serbia vibe from their ultimatum list? I'm definitely behind Qatar in this mess.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It doesn't look like a list of demands that can realistically be followed. According to Wikipedia the full list includes
QuoteClose al-Jazeera and its affiliate stations
Close the Turkish military base in Qatar, and terminate the Turkish military presence and any joint military cooperation with Turkey inside Qatar.
Reduce ties to Iran. Only trade and commerce with Iran that complies with US and international sanctions will be permitted.[203]
Expel any members of the IRGC and cut off military and intelligence cooperation with Iran.[204]
"Qatar must announce it is severing ties with terrorist, ideological and sectarian organizations including the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Jabhat Fateh al Sham, formerly al Qaeda's branch in Syria" according to one Arab official
Surrender all designated terrorists in Qatar, and stop all means of funding for individuals, groups or organisations that have been designated as terrorists
Qatar should stop interfering in the four countries' domestic and foreign affairs and having contact with their political opposition
Stop granting citizenship to wanted nationals from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain.
Revoke Qatari citizenship for existing nationals where such citizenship violates those countries' laws.[203]
Payment of reparations for years of alleged wrongs
Monitoring for 10 years[201]
Close news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye.
Align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters, in line with an agreement reached with Saudi Arabia in 2014
This sounds like a demand for total submission.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 26, 2017, 07:59:44 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on June 26, 2017, 06:13:25 PM
Why do I get an Austria to Serbia vibe from their ultimatum list? I'm definitely behind Qatar in this mess.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It doesn't look like a list of demands that can realistically be followed. According to Wikipedia the full list includes
QuoteClose al-Jazeera and its affiliate stations
Close the Turkish military base in Qatar, and terminate the Turkish military presence and any joint military cooperation with Turkey inside Qatar.
Reduce ties to Iran. Only trade and commerce with Iran that complies with US and international sanctions will be permitted.[203]
Expel any members of the IRGC and cut off military and intelligence cooperation with Iran.[204]
"Qatar must announce it is severing ties with terrorist, ideological and sectarian organizations including the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Jabhat Fateh al Sham, formerly al Qaeda's branch in Syria" according to one Arab official
Surrender all designated terrorists in Qatar, and stop all means of funding for individuals, groups or organisations that have been designated as terrorists
Qatar should stop interfering in the four countries' domestic and foreign affairs and having contact with their political opposition
Stop granting citizenship to wanted nationals from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain.
Revoke Qatari citizenship for existing nationals where such citizenship violates those countries' laws.[203]
Payment of reparations for years of alleged wrongs
Monitoring for 10 years[201]
Close news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye.
Align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters, in line with an agreement reached with Saudi Arabia in 2014
This sounds like a demand for total submission.
Makes the Austrian demands seem reasonable in comparison.
At least through war, there will be an end to this conflict.
Quote from: DGuller on June 26, 2017, 11:36:02 PM
At least through war, there will be an end to this conflict.
A war to end all conflicts.
(https://s2.postimg.org/x7paihel5/1890_Bismarcks_Ruecktritt.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b8ivv9xqt/)
I can't be helped but to remember this political cartoon. I don't think the US ship of state has a pilot anymore.
Donald didn't have the luxury of inheriting an elder statesman to fire. He's pretty much just done his usual real-estate-empire-as-organized-crime-model thing.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 26, 2017, 02:05:48 PM
Qatar uses Arabic "qaf" I think. The pronunciation I learned is weird - kind of like saying a cross between a k and a g, with the letter stuck in the back of the throat.
Indeed but then "Qaf" also has a different sound when at the end of the word cf. Iraq IIRC I am no arabist.
As for Qatar wiki has many pronunciations including standard arabic and the local one.
QuoteQatar (/ˈkætɑːr/, /ˈkɑːtɑːr/, /ˈkɑːtər/ or /kəˈtɑːr/;[10] Arabic: قطر Qatar [ˈqɑtˤɑr]; local vernacular pronunciation: [ˈɡɪtˤɑr])
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar)
Alternatively, the Senate offers its advice on the matter.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/politics/how-do-you-say-qatar-senate-hearing-has-the-answer/2014/06/12/57b193aa-f240-11e3-8658-4dc6c63456f1_video.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/politics/how-do-you-say-qatar-senate-hearing-has-the-answer/2014/06/12/57b193aa-f240-11e3-8658-4dc6c63456f1_video.html)
The ultimatum thing and the A-H vs Serbia example made me think:
Did the average, news-sensitive western citizen had even slightly more idea what the hell was going on in the Balkans and regarding Austro-Hungarian motivations than we do about Qatar and the Middle East? I mean sure, they knew about the assassination, but other than that?
I don't think so. In france it wasn't even headline news during the time period of the ultimatum. The scandal wth Henriette Caillaux made the headlines than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henriette_Caillaux (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henriette_Caillaux)
Quote from: Tamas on June 27, 2017, 05:52:59 AM
The ultimatum thing and the A-H vs Serbia example made me think:
Did the average, news-sensitive western citizen had even slightly more idea what the hell was going on in the Balkans and regarding Austro-Hungarian motivations than we do about Qatar and the Middle East? I mean sure, they knew about the assassination, but other than that?
We knew what was going on in the Balkans in '91, and nobody in Europe wanted to do shit about it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 27, 2017, 06:08:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 27, 2017, 05:52:59 AM
The ultimatum thing and the A-H vs Serbia example made me think:
Did the average, news-sensitive western citizen had even slightly more idea what the hell was going on in the Balkans and regarding Austro-Hungarian motivations than we do about Qatar and the Middle East? I mean sure, they knew about the assassination, but other than that?
We knew what was going on in the Balkans in '91, and nobody in Europe wanted to do shit about it.
Wasn't our fight, though.
Of course it was, niggerhater. One of the destabilizing side effects of genocide in Europe has an annoying habit of inventing piles of dead American soldiers.
Nah.
Quote from: mongers on June 26, 2017, 06:47:11 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on June 26, 2017, 06:13:25 PM
Why do I get an Austria to Serbia vibe from their ultimatum list? I'm definitely behind Qatar in this mess.
That would imply Trump's White House* is Imperial Germany, Turkey as France, Egypt as the Ottoman empire, Iran as Russia, Pakistan is Italy, India possibly a more distant British empire and nobody playing the role of Woodrow Wilson's America**.
* I think it's important to start making the distinction between that condo vs America and Americans at large, not that that will stop Americans getting killed in the line of duty for Trump's latest folly.
** just for shit and giggles, say what about Putin's Russia. picking up the choice pieces after the region has gone to hell in a handcart?
How can we be Germany in this if we already have a huge military base in Qatar?
Ultimatum extended by 48 hours. It was nice of them to not start the war during the holiday weekend.
Quote from: DGuller on July 03, 2017, 11:52:37 AM
Ultimatum extended by 48 hours. It was nice of them to not start the war during the holiday weekend.
This race to the bottom they're having with Trump, to see who has the most stupid foreign policy, is rewriting the probable box titles in Money's future pristine boardgame collection. :)
Quote from: mongers on July 03, 2017, 12:06:30 PM
This race to the bottom they're having with Trump, to see who has the most stupid foreign policy, is rewriting the probable box titles in Money's future pristine boardgame collection. :)
They're made of paper products, so even if they don't spontaneously ignite from the detonation flash, they're useless against fallout.
A stack of War in the Pacific games will block fallout.
Assuming they are the Decision games version.
:zzz
Games that are still wrapped in plastic are easy to decontaminate. Fallout shouldn't be a big problem.