IS AWESOME!
I thought it was really well done. I was puzzled by some of the critical reviews mentioned in the other thread - someone said it was just vanilla same old Star Wars.
Which makes no sense. It doesn't have anything like the "Ahhh gee, isn't the universe great in the end?" feel of traditional Star Wars, where the good guys are all really good and the bad guys incompetent.
The good guys here are pretty damn grey, and suddenly stormtroopers figured out how to shoot, at least some of the time.
Can't wait to run a double bill of this with ANH.
And we get to have a glimpse why Rebels shit in their pants at the mere possibility that [spoiler]Darth Vader[/spoiler] might be around.
Quote from: celedhring on December 17, 2016, 12:07:16 PM
Can't wait to run a double bill of this with ANH.
Yeah R1 ends about five minutes before ANH begins.
I thought it was better than Ep7, frankly.
Overall a fairly strong film. I did roll my eyes at Vader cracking jokes.
Why? Vader's a notorious cutup. Remember that scene where he starts force choking that guy until Tarkin tells him to knock it off.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 17, 2016, 03:50:28 PM
Why? Vader's a notorious cutup. Remember that scene where he starts force choking that guy until Tarkin tells him to knock it off.
And, of course...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttPwA8hitoY
Is this a Young Adult movie like the rest?
How appropriate is this movie to take for younger kids (when compared to the other movies)?
Quote from: Barrister on December 17, 2016, 05:38:45 PM
How appropriate is this movie to take for younger kids (when compared to the other movies)?
It's probably the most tragically violent of the lot. I don't think I'd recommend it for younger children. There's one scene near the end, for instance, that is downright brutal.
Quote from: Habbaku on December 17, 2016, 05:40:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 17, 2016, 05:38:45 PM
How appropriate is this movie to take for younger kids (when compared to the other movies)?
It's probably the most tragically violent of the lot. I don't think I'd recommend it for younger children. There's one scene near the end, for instance, that is downright brutal.
My parents were considering taking my nieces to see it; while I haven't seen it, I've gathered the gist of how it's the most un-
Star Wars of all the
Star Wars movies. They're going to go see it first.
I jokingly called it Star Wars: Vietnam on Facebook. I was only half-joking.
Quote from: Habbaku on December 17, 2016, 05:51:00 PM
I jokingly called it Star Wars: Vietnam on Facebook. I was only half-joking.
:lol: That's fucked up. Now I definitely need to see it.
I actually liked it too, several degrees more than Force Awakens.
Okay, some things were a bit silly and the plot could have been tighter...too much talking and too much shooting I felt. More time could have been spent to displaying the great new environments: that asteroid trading complex and Jedah City were really underused, but they, and the opening scenes on that moor planet and of course the beach landing super fight looked really really good. Sometimes I longed for a director with a little more patience to take advantage of his sets and let them stand on their own for a while, rather than being blown up. And it wasn't really dark or touching either, the characters never take hold of you.
But the film looked damn good, was exciting and had just enough nostalgia to satisfy us old folks, so this one I want to see again, as opposed to Force Awakens.
4/5 for appearance, 2.5/5 for content.
I thought TFA did a better job of establishing more interesting characters and their relationships. I wish Rogue One was more successful in that, it would have given us the first great Star Wars film since 1983. As magnificent an spectacle as the last 30 minutes were, I wish I cared more for the characters in it.
But after how safe and same-ish TFA felt, this has given me hope (pun intended) that there might be an actual really good Star Wars film in this new batch.
Rian Johnson (PBUH) will not disappoint us. Amen.
I love Rian Johnson's work, but the action scenes in Looper were godawful. I hope the ginormous budget helps.
That sounds heretical. You watch your ass.
My ranking of all movies:
1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Rogue
4. Jedi
5. Force
6/7/8. Whatever
Quote from: celedhring on December 17, 2016, 06:10:02 PM
I thought TFA did a better job of establishing more interesting characters and their relationships. I wish Rogue One was more successful in that, it would have given us the first great Star Wars film since 1983. As magnificent an spectacle as the last 30 minutes were, I wish I cared more for the characters in it.
Why invest so much in characters and their backstory, when [spoiler]everybody dies in the end?[/spoiler]
Quote from: Drakken on December 17, 2016, 11:50:18 PM
Why invest so much in characters and their backstory, when [spoiler]everybody dies in the end?[/spoiler]
Because that's good storytelling?
Yeah, the fact that everyone dies in the end works a lot better if the viewer *cares* that everyone dies at the end.
I kind of cared about Jin. And the robot. And the sacrifice of the others was meaningful in that I knew I was supposed to find it meaningful, but it could certainly have come off better than it did.
Still, a strong flick overall.
It was a good film. Uncanny valley Tarkin was a bit off putting though.
Is it okay to post spoilers in this? I guess we might, since it's a separate thread and all (we might want to indicate it in the thread title).
My main issue with the film is that the characters aren't that interesting, although I think the potential was there to develop them more. The actual antagonist (not Tarkin or Vader which are just "there") was also really weak.
People compare it to the ending of ROTJ, and even though this one is certainly more spectacular (plus no Ewoks), it doesn't have such an epic character moment like Luke facing the Emperor and the redemption of Darth Vader. Had the filmmakers managed to build towards such a moment in Rogue One, then it would have been genuinely a great Star Wars film. Instead, Jyn facing Krennic is kinda whatever.
They're getting pretty close with the CGI character thing. I almost expected Tarkin to do a Frozen-style smirky sideways smile but he didn't. Leia was not quite as good but still impressive.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 18, 2016, 05:24:07 AM
They're getting pretty close with the CGI character thing. I almost expected Tarkin to do a Frozen-style smirky sideways smile but he didn't. Leia was not quite as good but still impressive.
It's weird though, because I would have thought it's easier to deage a living actor (Carrie Fisher) than working from old footage of Peter Cushing.
Still, those dead eyes. I would have just recast Tarkin. They recast Jan Dodonna and Mon Mothma, after all.
Spoiler alert added to title.
I am having trouble finding the will to look for weak points. This is the first Star Wars movie that achieved the same kind of awe and excitement in me that I felt watching the original trilogy as a kid, on VHS tapes.
And not just as a Star Wars flick, but also as a sci-fi action/war movie as well.
I still think the plot was weak, the script too hastily done, directing too impatient and characters bland.
But after some more thinking, I believe I have come to the conclusion that Rogue One is probably as good as we will get out of any new Star Wars movie for a 21st century audience that need explosions every five minutes. With expectations this low I think it was original enough to warrant a high ranking in the series: I put it down as #4 after the three real Star Wars installations.
I went in expecting something like The Guns of Navarone in Star Wars and wasn't disappointed (if much lighter on the moral ambiguities). If I had a main gripe after first viewing then that it felt a bit breathless (then again, that might be the point).
It was fun to have Tarkin, but I think he would have worked better as a hologram with some distortion/blur. Vader's scene in the end was great. And I loved that they dug out archive footage of Gold and Red Leader. The run in with Pona Baba and Dr Evazan - with Ponda Baba seemingly trying to keep Evazan out of a fight - reminded me of the Robot Chicken skit: https://youtu.be/6qc6zfoxlJU?t=43
The movie makes an effort to tie into the new canon - Saw Gerrera appeared 4 years ago in the Clone Wars cartoon as a resistance fighter on Onderon (Republic and Jedi went there to train insurgents against the Separatists). The Hammerhead ship shows up in the Rebels cartoon who based it off Knights of the Old Republics's cruisers. And there's a call for "General Syndulla" in the Rebel base which might either refer to Hera Syndulla or her father, also from the Rebels show.
It was a fun ride. Some of the minor characters could have needed a bit more to do. And it seemed strange that the shield gate launched what felt like 3 times more fighters than the Death Star does in A New Hope.
I cared about the character deaths in the end, but I also find it kind of refreshing that they closed the door on any sequels to this. I'm sure there'll be plenty of spin off novels and comics, and I expect some of the characters to show up on Rebels.
The overall tone of the movie was what I would have hoped that the (canceled) Star Wars: Underworld TV might have.
Quote from: Delirium on December 18, 2016, 07:17:26 AM
I still think the plot was weak, the script too hastily done, directing too impatient and characters bland.
But after some more thinking, I believe I have come to the conclusion that Rogue One is probably as good as we will get out of any new Star Wars movie for a 21st century audience that need explosions every five minutes. With expectations this low I think it was original enough to warrant a high ranking in the series: I put it down as #4 after the three real Star Wars installations.
Don't cut yourself on that edge. :P
He's right though, a lot of modern movies would be better with fewer "spectacular effects" and more character development.
Oh well, I'll see it on Friday with my youngest, no doubt we will enjoy it and have forgotten it more or less as soon as the end credits roll.
Quote from: celedhring on December 18, 2016, 05:21:09 AMThe actual antagonist (not Tarkin or Vader which are just "there") was also really weak.
He's a technocrat, and a toady. He cares about his standing within the hierarchy, that he gets the credit he deserves for his new toy, and that's about it. He's more of an Albert Speer than a Himmler or Heydrich. The Empire's failing is that they put such a character in charge of a project like this, since while he surely is ruthless, he's also too shortsighted (or too involved in high level stuff) that he overlooks the treason under his nose.
I like English chicks with buck teeth.
Quote from: Syt on December 18, 2016, 07:58:23 AM
Quote from: celedhring on December 18, 2016, 05:21:09 AMThe actual antagonist (not Tarkin or Vader which are just "there") was also really weak.
He's a technocrat, and a toady. He cares about his standing within the hierarchy, that he gets the credit he deserves for his new toy, and that's about it. He's more of an Albert Speer than a Himmler or Heydrich. The Empire's failing is that they put such a character in charge of a project like this, since while he surely is ruthless, he's also too shortsighted (or too involved in high level stuff) that he overlooks the treason under his nose.
He's an incompetent lackey, the kind that gets his throat crushed after 2 minutes of screen time in ESB. Yet here he's the main antagonist. Awful choice.
The script puzzlingly keeps undermining him, too.
Quote from: celedhring on December 18, 2016, 08:36:23 AMHe's an incompetent lackey, the kind that gets his throat crushed after 2 minutes of screen time in ESB. Yet here he's the main antagonist. Awful choice.
The script puzzlingly keeps undermining him, too.
To play devil's advocate: apparently he had the skills necessary to coordinate the construction of the first Death Star. As soon as the station is finished, though, Tarkin takes over command from him, and he's sent on seemingly insignificant errands. He's lost his usefulness, and Tarkin doesn't even bother checking if he's alive before blowing up the base he's on.
Also, by ESB, the Empire might be a different place. In ANH, officers are still bickering, fighting for rank and approval, kind of like they might have done in the Old Republic. A lot of the highest ranked ones die on the Death Star (not least, Tarkin), and by ESB we see almost exclusively loyal officers (a rivalry between Ozzel and Piett notwithstanding).
I liked, though, that Ahmedinejad has a new job as Rebel senator. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2F8%2F82%2FVaspar-Rogue_One.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20161122001141&hash=6c0dbb4f6ffbb04da5d11e3c8b6fad4b580e9bc6)
(Apparently the chatacter is called Vasp Vaspar, played by Swedish-Assyrian actor Fares Fares.)
I'm not arguing whether the character is believable, he totally is. I'm just arguing that he's an uninteresting and weak antagonist. I'm pretty sure the Empire had i.e. an army of accountants, I just hope they aren't the main antagonist of Ep VIII. :P
I get the feeling that way back when this was first conceived Tarkin was the antagonist, him being the dude kidnapping Erso and overseeing construction of the Death Star, and they just created Krennic when it became apparent that using Tarkin so much wasn't practical unless they recast him.
Quote from: Syt on December 18, 2016, 09:19:35 AM
I liked, though, that Ahmedinejad has a new job as Rebel senator. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2F8%2F82%2FVaspar-Rogue_One.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20161122001141&hash=6c0dbb4f6ffbb04da5d11e3c8b6fad4b580e9bc6)
(Apparently the chatacter is called Vasp Vaspar, played by Swedish-Assyrian actor Fares Fares.)
Swedish? That's why he sounds so funny in the Department Q movies. :P
Is that the dude that was in Zero Dark Thirty?
Quote from: celedhring on December 18, 2016, 09:22:15 AMI get the feeling that way back when this was first conceived Tarkin was the antagonist, him being the dude kidnapping Erso and overseeing construction of the Death Star, and they just created Krennic when it became apparent that using Tarkin so much wasn't practical unless they recast him.
That's would make sense. But yeah, as far as movie villains go he didn't really do much or posed much of a threat. I understand that it's nice to have a personified enemy as foil for the heroes, but the movie had been better if he didn't exist in this case, pitting the faceless Empire (save for Tarkin/Vader) against the Rebels, further showing how the Empire underestimated their opponents - of course that wouldn't be plausible, considering that in Rebels they use considerable resources to take care of the insurgents, including sending in Tarkin and Vader for the climax between Seasons 1 + 2, and later Thrawn in Season 3.
I will say something, though, Rogue 1 manages to elevate ANH's climax - having seen how much it took to put Luke Skywalker just a torpedo shot away from killing the Death Star heightens the tension. It makes for a stronger "FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!" moment when the Death Star blows up.
I wish that somehow ANH and Rogue 1 weren't 40 years apart so they meshed better together. It almost feels like a two-parter.
I will say, though, that it was weird to watch a Star Wars movie without opening fanfare or crawl text.
Also, title cards?
Quote from: Syt on December 18, 2016, 10:37:24 AM
I will say, though, that it was weird to watch a Star Wars movie without opening fanfare or crawl text.
Also, title cards?
I'm fine with that. The opening crawl for saga episodes only. It's overused in Star Wars entertainment anyway.
Glad they kept the end credits theme though.
Quote from: Barrister on December 17, 2016, 05:38:45 PM
How appropriate is this movie to take for younger kids (when compared to the other movies)?
If they've seen Episode 3 and 5, they should be fine. If they can handle that not all the heroes are going to walk away, they'll be fine.
Quote from: celedhring on December 18, 2016, 10:57:02 AMI'm fine with that. The opening crawl for saga episodes only. It's overused in Star Wars entertainment anyway.
Glad they kept the end credits theme though.
Oh, not complaining. Just feels a bit odd. :)
There were a few more shout outs to earlier drafts of the saga. The order of the Whills comes to mind, or "May the Force of Others be with you." Similar to the appearend of the force sensitive (a?) Bendu in Rebels (the Jedi were originally called the Jedi Bendu).
Heh, listening to the soundtrack on Spotify while doing some work. Just noticed the playback progress bar is a lightsaber. :D
:lol:
One thing that slightly bothered me is the fact that Leia is present at the battle of Scarif. Doesn't make any sense for her being there. She's still a Senator at the time, plus it's hinted previously that his stepdad is sending her to Tatooine.
Yes, it would have been better if she was elsewhere getting a desperately relayed transmission and then making a run.
Of course it looked cooler this way. :P
I hadn't planned to see this anytime soon but I did and I liked it. :)
Could have done though without the silly climb in data center with requisite opening and closing door death trap.
Also, I'm guessing some people in the theater were drunk as they laughed a little too hard at the laugh lines. :D
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 11:39:33 AMCould have done though without the silly climb in data center with requisite opening and closing door death trap.
The Empire hates OSHA. :(
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 11:39:33 AM
Could have done though without the silly climb in data center with requisite opening and closing door death trap.
Yeah, servicing that dish must be a bitch :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on December 18, 2016, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 11:39:33 AM
Could have done though without the silly climb in data center with requisite opening and closing door death trap.
Yeah, servicing that dish must be a bitch :lol:
I'm also curious how they got so quickly from the top of that structure to the scenic beach to await fiery death.
Also, Ponda Baba and Dr. Evazan were also lucky to leave Jedha in time before the nuking.
The Star Destroyer above Jedha was neat. Reminded me of Star Wars Galaxies, where you often had ISDs in the sky (though higher up) to denote Imperial occupation.
Not important but I also wondered about all the locations. Why introduce Wobani if sole scene was Jyn being "rescued" by the rebels.
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 12:26:21 PM
Not important but I also wondered about all the locations. Why introduce Wobani if sole scene was Jyn being "rescued" by the rebels.
That answer is probably coming in a tie in novel. :P
I think a big reason why I enjoyed the movie was that the usual main characters were almost completely absent. In the old Expanded Universe my favorite stories were usually those that didn't focus on the Skywalkers and Solos (which quickly became a soap opera) but rather did something with side characters or created completely new ones.
I always looked at the Star Wars universe as a means of escapism, a big adventure playground, and instead of following the main narrative I was always curious about what lay beyond what was seen on screen.
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 12:26:21 PM
Not important but I also wondered about all the locations. Why introduce Wobani if sole scene was Jyn being "rescued" by the rebels.
According to IMDB, that was indeed an hommage to Obi-Wan.
Quote from: Drakken on December 18, 2016, 12:47:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 12:26:21 PM
Not important but I also wondered about all the locations. Why introduce Wobani if sole scene was Jyn being "rescued" by the rebels.
According to IMDB, that was indeed an hommage to Obi-Wan.
I guess. Seems lame. Wookiepedia notes it was mentioned in Battlefront.
Quote from: Syt on December 18, 2016, 12:46:24 PM
I think a big reason why I enjoyed the movie was that the usual main characters were almost completely absent. In the old Expanded Universe my favorite stories were usually those that didn't focus on the Skywalkers and Solos (which quickly became a soap opera) but rather did something with side characters or created completely new ones.
I always looked at the Star Wars universe as a means of escapism, a big adventure playground, and instead of following the main narrative I was always curious about what lay beyond what was seen on screen.
Of course, what clearly laid beyond was a bunch of dead side characters. :P
:P
The biggest weirdness that such movies that are inserted into an existing series create is that nobody ever mentiones their heroic sacrifice ever again. I suppose Rogue Squadron might be named after them, but that's about it.
It's kind of how nobody in Star Trek ever mentions Jonathan Archer and the original Enterprise (or maybe the Federation prefers not to talk about him :P ).
Quote from: Syt on December 18, 2016, 01:03:50 PM
The biggest weirdness that such movies that are inserted into an existing series create is that nobody ever mentiones their heroic sacrifice ever again. I suppose Rogue Squadron might be named after them, but that's about it.
They do. :contract:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.lum.dolimg.com%2Fv1%2Fimages%2Fepisode-4-crawl_24e24e6f.jpeg%3Fregion%3D286%252C0%252C1588%252C893%26amp%3Bwidth%3D768&hash=6181692cde4194f1be8d5a3a22b1001115b3dbf3)
I guess we'll see the bothans in Rogue Two :P
Quote from: celedhring on December 18, 2016, 01:08:01 PM
I guess we'll see the bothans in Rogue Two
Nah, they'll just modify the story slightly to make it about Manny Bothans, hero of the Rebellion.
Re: the characters---The novel Catalyst is supposed to have a boatload about them in it. I might read it since it's Luceno and not Claudia Gray.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 18, 2016, 02:11:01 PM
Re: the characters---The novel Catalyst is supposed to have a boatload about them in it. I might read it since it's Luceno and not Claudia Gray.
I have it on Audible, but haven't listened to it yet beyond the first chapter. Earlier this year I set up an Audible sub that quietly ticked along, so that I had 10 free audio books. I'm using it for Star Wars audio books, because I find it easier to keep up that way.
Saw the movie this afternoon, at risk of permanent damage to my hearing. Really fun. I liked the droid. Like threepio with less whining and more snark.
Alan Tudyk crashes spaceships and dies. It's kinda his thing.
As usual, you can trust geeks with too much time in their hands to overscrutinize stuff, so here's an article trying to ascertain what might have changed in the final version of the film after the reshoots, using footage that was in the early trailers but didn't make the final cut.
http://www.slashfilm.com/rogue-one-missing-trailer-footage/2/
Interestingly, the mechanics of how the plans get stolen and transmitted to the Rebellion seem to have changed significantly.
Quote from: Neil on December 18, 2016, 11:05:01 AM
Quote from: Barrister on December 17, 2016, 05:38:45 PM
How appropriate is this movie to take for younger kids (when compared to the other movies)?
If they've seen Episode 3 and 5, they should be fine. If they can handle that not all the heroes are going to walk away, they'll be fine.
My kids somehow survived watching it. Didn't even need counseling.
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 11:39:33 AM
Also, I'm guessing some people in the theater were drunk as they laughed a little too hard at the laugh lines. :D
In my theater, though there were drunk people, I think most people who laughed too hard did so out of excess enthusiasm. Half of them clapped when the movie started :mellow:
I don't remember anyone clapping at the beginning, but most of the theater clapped at the end.
Vader kicking Rebel ass in the end - I guess someone at Lucasfilm played the first level of Force Unleashed. :P
I love when Americans clap at the end of movies, they are so eager to display their enthusiasm :lol:
No clapping in my aloof Euro cinema :(
Quote from: derspiess on December 19, 2016, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 18, 2016, 11:39:33 AM
Also, I'm guessing some people in the theater were drunk as they laughed a little too hard at the laugh lines. :D
In my theater, though there were drunk people, I think most people who laughed too hard did so out of excess enthusiasm. Half of them clapped when the movie started :mellow:
Yeah that happened at the beginning and end in my theater too. :x
Quote from: celedhring on December 19, 2016, 09:47:03 AM
I love when Americans clap at the end of movies, they are so eager to display their enthusiasm :lol:
No clapping in my aloof Euro cinema :(
There was a big group of downs kids when I watched it, much clapping at the end.
Not that I go to the movies that frequently but enthusiastic clapping was heard during both FA and Rogue One. Not to mention the LotR movies. I didn't think they were Americans or that it was disgusting.
Quote from: Habbaku on December 17, 2016, 05:51:00 PM
I jokingly called it Star Wars: Vietnam on Facebook. I was only half-joking.
Yeah that's a good descriptor. Overall a better effort than the Force Awakened. Undead Tarkin was a mistake, though, I just hope they're not going to try to do the same to Alec Guinness going forward.
QuoteUndead Tarkin was a mistake, though, I just hope they're not going to try to do the same to Alec Guinness going forward.
The next Star Trek reboot will be done entirely with the original cast!
Quote from: Legbiter on December 20, 2016, 09:08:51 AM
Yeah that's a good descriptor. Overall a better effort than the Force Awakened. Undead Tarkin was a mistake, though, I just hope they're not going to try to do the same to Alec Guinness going forward.
Actually, the grittier vibe was something I'd been looking forward to since Michael Stackpole wrote the first Rogue Squadron book. It felt like such an homage to that vein of the Star Wars Legacy books that when Bail mentioned dropped the line about [spoiler]"I trust her with my life,"[/spoiler] I was hoping for a little while that they would find a way to get Winter into the new canon with all of her eidetic-memory badassery.
Regarding Tarkin, I thought his scenes were well-executed and just added to the cutthroat vibe we got from Peter Cushing in A New Hope. What I found more jarring was [spoiler]Leia's cameo at the end. They didn't use mocap from Carrie Fisher for obvious reasons, but I suspect that the makeup was supplemented with a animated composite of Carrie Fisher's face that wasn't quite flawless- for a second, it seemed to stretch really broad and also suffered from a bit of "waxy face syndrome," though both were still far superior to other attempts to do the same[/spoiler].
[spoiler]
Wish I had had a chance to catch all the details you guys caught. I was too busy telling my kids to be quiet & stop fighting with each other, getting them food, taking my daughter to the bathroom three times, etc. YEAH LETS DO THAT AGAIN
Just watched it, really liked it. The end was totally Saving Private Ryan...in space!!
Re: The Vietnam war movie comparisons, there's a scene near the end in which one of the rebel soldiers had three cartridge thingies on one side of his helmet that totally looked like cigarettes. It was only missing having "Born to kill" written on its side.
Taking my mom to it tomorrow. I NEED to watch that ending again. :blush:
I also got an offer for a third viewing, but that'd probably be too much. Will wait for the home release.
I have yet to see it and haven't read through this thread yet, but... here's something that seems to be getting a lot of love on a firend's Facebook wall I figured I would share. Enjoy?
https://vimeo.com/196357074
Quote from: celedhring on December 20, 2016, 07:28:59 PM
Taking my mom to it tomorrow. I NEED to watch that ending again. :blush:
I also got an offer for a third viewing, but that'd probably be too much. Will wait for the home release.
Oh my.
http://imgur.com/gallery/sZQUt :lol:
:D
Also, this bugged me in my second viewing of Rogue One. How come none of the possibly hundreds of prisoners they take when they capture the rebel fleet gives up the location of the Yavin base? Since Tarkin is still looking for it in ANH. :hmm:
Presumably the location of the base is highly classified, and those prisoners would not need to know where it was....
They just, you know, fly away from some unknown to them planet....
Or maybe the moved it, perhaps regularly.
The Rebel base is, indeed, moved with some frequency.
In Rogue One the base is already in Yavin. And the fleet honchos are seen at Yavin during the "rebellions are built on hope!" scene. We, however, don't know where the rebel fleet itself is exactly stationed at, that is true.
The rebel ground forces are seen departing from Yavin, but those are conveniently exterminated by Tarkin using the Death Star. :hmm:
Is a 2nd viewing worth it? I'm thinking yes and might go after Christmas but if disappointing I'll save it for later. :P
Quote from: Liep on December 22, 2016, 06:52:15 PM
Is a 2nd viewing worth it? I'm thinking yes and might go after Christmas but if disappointing I'll save it for later. :P
Weirdly, this second time around I enjoyed the first part more and the second part less. Since I knew that all the characters were going to die, it helped me sympathize with them and gave a tragic tinge to the proceedings. OTOH, all the big spectacle moments in Scarif were now less of a surprise and did have less of an impact on me. Still very enjoyable, mind.
The Saw Gerera subplot was still pointless and cringeworthy, though :P
Quote from: celedhring on December 22, 2016, 06:44:01 PM
In Rogue One the base is already in Yavin. And the fleet honchos are seen at Yavin during the "rebellions are built on hope!" scene. We, however, don't know where the rebel fleet itself is exactly stationed at, that is true.
The rebel ground forces are seen departing from Yavin, but those are conveniently exterminated by Tarkin using the Death Star. :hmm:
There's some healthy paranoia going on in the ranks of the Alliance, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that some or all of the following are happening:
- Navigation information is compartmentalized to senior officers
- Navigation and command officers are expected to commit suicide upon capture
- The base was only recently moved to Yavin IV and isn't yet generally known
We do know from Leia's "Dantooine" gambit that the base has been moved, and it's implied that it does so frequently.
I just had an offer to see this again. Like a sensible person, I said no thanks.
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2016, 12:00:24 PM
The good guys here are pretty damn grey, and suddenly stormtroopers figured out how to shoot, at least some of the time.
I agree with the assessment. For the Stormtroopers, an explanation seems that the grey/black ones are some sort of elite commandos.
It's also possible that the ones we saw previously, garding the two death stars weren't crack troops. You usually don't put your best units on guard duty in a place you least expect an attack, such as a reputedly well protected space fortress.
Quote from: celedhring on December 22, 2016, 06:12:53 PM
Also, this bugged me in my second viewing of Rogue One. How come none of the possibly hundreds of prisoners they take when they capture the rebel fleet gives up the location of the Yavin base? Since Tarkin is still looking for it in ANH. :hmm:
the fleet didn't depart from Yavin. The people on Yavin were pretty much unaware the was going to be a fight until much later.
The Mon Cal admiral decided to fight with his fleet despite the Council not wanting to.
Also, it's common Rebel practice that the ships do several jumps from base to target. IIRC among several ships each only has part of the navigational path, "leading" the others. I guess they also auto-erase last jump's data so they can't reconstruct the path?
Just saw it and enjoyed it.
I wasn't at all bothered about seeing this tbh.
Went and... Slow to begin. Didn't grab me at all. We know what happens after all. But the battle was cool.
I enjoyed it, but came away somewhat disappointed (which could have been due to overly high expectations).
I liked:
- The visuals. It is a pretty stunning movie.
- That everyone died at the end. I'm glad there wasn't a dumb escape on an eagle or some shit. The suicide mission really was suicidal, and it made the Empire seem somewhat more menacing.
- The continuity. There were some goofy bits (deathmark-on-twelve-systems guy), and I'm not sure how seamlessly it goes into A New Hope, but I thought overall they did a good job of connecting things.
- Imperial office politics. I actually kind of dug this.
I disliked:
- Basically all of the rebel characters (excluding the droid). Jyn was a complete blank for me, and she had more personality then the rest combined.
- I also felt there really wasn't any reason presented why the Empire was bad and the Rebels good in this movie. Of course there's more in the other movies, but I never got a sense of why the Empire had to be resisted, and of what the Rebels were actually fighting for. Some might saw that they were trying to make it more morally ambiguous, but 1) why should I care about a bunch of morally dubious aliens fighting each other? and 2) there is a literally a Dark Side and a Light Side in this Universe; Star Wars can't really do moral ambiguity.
- I also really hate in movies where the bad guys have the drop on the good guys, but instead of shooting them ask them to surrender, and are then killed by the good guys. I guess the reason the bad guys failed is because of their common decency and basic humanity? Is that what I'm supposed to take from this?
- The music. The Force Awakens was merely forgettable. Whenever I noticed the music in this movie it was actively bad.
Quote from: Kleves on December 27, 2016, 10:11:37 PM
- I also felt there really wasn't any reason presented why the Empire was bad
I can only assume you fell asleep during the parts where the Empire's command structure engaged in war crimes?
Sometimes the destruction of an ancient temple is needed for progress. So sad.
Quote from: Kleves on December 27, 2016, 10:11:37 PM
I disliked:
- Basically all of the rebel characters (excluding the droid). Jyn was a complete blank for me, and she had more personality then the rest combined.
- I also felt there really wasn't any reason presented why the Empire was bad and the Rebels good in this movie. Of course there's more in the other movies, but I never got a sense of why the Empire had to be resisted, and of what the Rebels were actually fighting for. Some might saw that they were trying to make it more morally ambiguous, but 1) why should I care about a bunch of morally dubious aliens fighting each other? and 2) there is a literally a Dark Side and a Light Side in this Universe; Star Wars can't really do moral ambiguity.
This was the 8th Star Wars movie.
If you have not figured out yet who the good guys and bad guys are, too bad.
Personally, I am fine with them not re-hashing the same basic plot foundations of every single movie every single time.
The very first scene of the film features an imperial agent kidnapping the protagonist's father and killing her mother. I think that clearly sets up who the bad guys are, even if you never watched a Star Wars film before. Even when rebel characters do something morally wrong, the film makes sure that you never mistake the Empire for the good guys either. I. e. when the Rebellion kills Jyn's father, you have already seen Krennic summarily executing the other scientists five minutes before.
It's also interesting to see Star Wars movies internalizing more modern experiences. Space fights are still inspired by WW2 aircraft carrier combat, but look at one of the first action scenes in this one: an armored patrol in a Middle Eastern looking town, getting attacked by radicalized insurgents. And the place is even called Jeddah, sorry, I meant: Jedha.
I do agree with Kleves that the music was particularly weak. I heard the guy doing it was only given like four weeks or something dumb like that.
Finished Catalyst. It's not the best story ever, but it provides a decent amount of backstory, from the original idea of the Death Star during the Clone Wars, its construction efforts, to the rivalry between Krennic , Tarkin, and Mas Amedda. Main focus is Krennic's trying to get Galen Erso to participate in the project. Erso is portrayed as an ivory tower scientist - he cares only about his research into kyber crystals as energy source and while he rejects taking part in the war effort he is slowly goaded into working on what he thinks is a civilian energy project, not looking too closely at where his resources/crystals are coming from.
His wife is meddlesome in that she mistrusts Krennic and the Empire and - after being shown the devastation the Empire causes on some worlds, and the disappearance of old friends - wakes up her husband. The main conflict is between her and Krennic, and you can see why he has her shot at the start of the movie.
The politicking between Tarkin and Krennic is interesting - both are manipulators behind the scenes, but they have different motivations. Krennyk is in this for rank, money, and power. Tarkin is in it for the ideology and thinks Krennyk is too unreliable to be trusted with running something as vital as the Death Star after its completion.
Quote from: Syt on December 28, 2016, 11:34:57 AM
Finished Catalyst. It's not the best story ever, but it provides a decent amount of backstory, from the original idea of the Death Star during the Clone Wars, its construction efforts, to the rivalry between Krennic , Tarkin, and Mas Amedda. Main focus is Krennic's trying to get Galen Erso to participate in the project. Erso is portrayed as an ivory tower scientist - he cares only about his research into kyber crystals as energy source and while he rejects taking part in the war effort he is slowly goaded into working on what he thinks is a civilian energy project, not looking too closely at where his resources/crystals are coming from.
His wife is meddlesome in that she mistrusts Krennic and the Empire and - after being shown the devastation the Empire causes on some worlds, and the disappearance of old friends - wakes up her husband. The main conflict is between her and Krennic, and you can see why he has her shot at the start of the movie.
The politicking between Tarkin and Krennic is interesting - both are manipulators behind the scenes, but they have different motivations. Krennyk is in this for rank, money, and power. Tarkin is in it for the ideology and thinks Krennyk is too unreliable to be trusted with running something as vital as the Death Star after its completion.
That sounds like it ought to be a pretty damn good story, actually...
Just not executed well?
My (limited) experience with Star Wars canon books has been that the writers I've seen have just been terrible, so I gave up on reading them very quickly.
I listened to it as audio book. The Star Wars audio books make use of music, sound effects etc. which usually alleviates the quality somewhat. Luceno previously wrote for the Expanded Universe.
I'm not saying it's bad, just very by the numbers. There were no big surprises (except maybe how the Geonosians were used as labor force). It has some nice action sequences, though. Part of the rather predictable plot may be because the determined end point, i.e. the start of the movie. It's interesting in showing the transition from Republic to Empire, and some of Death Star background for sure. I'll be checking out Tarkin (the novel) next.
The Star Wars Rebels winter premiere in January will feature Saw Gerrera and the crew of the Ghost traveling to Geonosis, so that might be interesting.
EDIT: As to other new canon novels - I enjoy some of them a fair bit. Aftermath 1 & 2 have an excellent story covering the, well, Aftermath of Ep. VI. It focuses on new characters with some original trilogy characters playing smaller parts. The Republic is struggling to establish control while the Empire is fractured and withdrawing faster than the Republic can fill the vacuum. It's laying some basic groundwork for Ep. VII, and intercuts with short vignettes from different spots around the galaxy to give a bit of a panorama of what's happening on various planets. The biggest drawback is the style of writing - short, breathless sentences in present tense. More like you would tell a story verbally than how you would write it. Haven't checked the audio versions; they might work much better. If you can get over that, the story is pretty good IMHO.
I also enjoyed Fallen Stars. Two kids from a backwater planet - a girl from the original, pastoral settlers, and a boy from the second wave of merchants and craftsmen. They dream of joining the Imperial Navy. They excel in their classes, but because they're very close, the Empire sabotages them to split them up and sow animosity between them. The girl later stays with the Empire and tries to rationalize the things she sees, like the destruction of Alderaan. She becomes increasingly disillusioned in the Empire, but still tries to see the good in it, and she feels bound by her oath.The boy (later her lover) eventually deserts, and after hooking up with smugglers eventually joins the Rebels. In between they visit their old home now and then whichs shows how the Empire transforms its society and exploits its resources. I thought the book made a pretty decent attempt at looking at why good people would serve the Empire till the very end.
So, third viewing today :blush:
Modest clapping when the princess showed up.
Finally saw it. Thanks to Berkut I knew what would happen. I liked the robot.
They prefer "droid".
I thought it was well done. A couple of minor edit issues though. In the opening scenes the ship flies over her but she gets to the house first. Later in the move, on the landing pad with her dad, she almost gets blown off but he doesn't move. I liked how they tied the end of the movie into the beginning of episode 4.
Loved the movie. But what the fuck with the CGI. It's not ready for prime time. It works with non-human characters or semi-humans like Smeagol. But not yet for real humans. They should have done the CGI of Tarkin and Leia via distorted holograms.
What a lovely universe. :ph34r:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz_6jaLVQAAmfPc.jpg)
Also, the Darth Vader scene in 16 bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYMDphGTcg :P
A thought I had when watching . The rebels really need more aliens. Underline the evil racist empire angle. I guess the problem is it damages their relatabilty and opens the door to cg abominations.
That said I thought the CG Cushing was very well done. My mother thought so too.
Quote from: Syt on December 31, 2016, 09:57:32 AM
Also, the Darth Vader scene in 16 bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYMDphGTcg :P
At risk of seeming a rebel (hah), I thought there was quite a bit of pandering to the audience/fanboys in the Vader "storming a ship and kicking ass with the force" scene. Especially as it greatly contrasts with the opening scene from ANH, where Vader does absolutely no fighting, and lets the stormtroopers do the "vulgar" work of fighting lowly "rebels/normals". Just as I thought the spinning-Yoda-of-death scenes from the prequels were, while cool to watch, really quite silly.
I can't say I agree that they two are comparable.
Yoda and a martial artist was stupid, because it makes no sense.
Vader willing to go in an kill people makes perfect sense, both from what we know of his temperament, and from the tactical situation he was presented with when time was of an essence.
I heard that the movie was originally shot with Vader personally murdering most of the R1 characters, but it was thought too brutal and that was why they did the reshoot.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2016, 03:04:45 PM
At risk of seeming a rebel (hah), I thought there was quite a bit of pandering to the audience/fanboys in the Vader "storming a ship and kicking ass with the force" scene.
I agree that it did seem a bit cheesy. Not saying it should have been cut, but I could have done without it.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 31, 2016, 05:42:36 PM
I heard that the movie was originally shot with Vader personally murdering most of the R1 characters, but it was thought too brutal and that was why they did the reshoot.
Just re-watched the teaser trailer. What a different movie it was about!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg
I hope we eventually find out what the script was like before the rewrites and reshoots. I suspect it might be better without the Disney input.
Yeah, I really liked the movie, but I have to say going back and re-watching the teaser (thanks garbon), THAT seems like a much more...intriguing movie...
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2016, 03:04:45 PM
At risk of seeming a rebel (hah), I thought there was quite a bit of pandering to the audience/fanboys in the Vader "storming a ship and kicking ass with the force" scene. Especially as it greatly contrasts with the opening scene from ANH, where Vader does absolutely no fighting, and lets the stormtroopers do the "vulgar" work of fighting lowly "rebels/normals". Just as I thought the spinning-Yoda-of-death scenes from the prequels were, while cool to watch, really quite silly.
Agree completely. Darth Vader in ep 4 is above storming a lowly rebel ship. If he wasn't, why bother sending in the stormtroopers in the first place?
Or perhaps it as simple as Lucas et al had not yet conceived of Vader and Jedi masters as the kind of super heroes that they become starting with Phantom Menace and onward?
A paranoid thought; so they changed a lot from the original....
The trailer contains nothing about Jin going after her dad....
What if they made these changes to emphasis the father and daughter side all to remind people of the Rei mystery.
Finished the Tarkin audio book. Written by Luceno, like Catalyst (the Rogue One prequel), I thought it was much better than the newer book. I hear that Catalyst required major rewriting after Rogue One was changed, so that may have caused some of the "by the number" feel of Catalyst.
This book has Tarkin and Vader look into a series of seditious incidents and uncovering a conspiracy. It's still early years for the Empire - they're still mostly using the V-Wing instead of the TIE-Fighter, and some of the structure still has to gel. Flashbacks show how Tarkin was raised, how he became so ruthless, and how he first met Palpatine.
The interactions between Vader, Tarkin, and Palpatine are pretty good, and Tarkin's analytical ways give him occasionally a bit of a Sherlock air (which would be fitting, considering that Cushing played the detective in movies).
The book was one of the first of the new canon, and it brings back a host of familiar names from the Expanded Universe, though mostly just name dropping them. Armand Isard (father of Ysanne Isard of the X-Wing books), Screed (the Imperial from the Droids cartoon and Star Wars Rebellion game), the planets of Jomark and Obroa-Skai from the Thrawn trilogy, Interdictor Cruisers, Victory Class Star Destroyers, CC-7700 frigates (also from Star Wars Rebellion), Carrack Cruisers, TaggeCo, and plenty more. :nerd:
Jedha. Jedi.
The name seems a bit odd being so close to a real life place....but....what if there is a reason....that being it is from the same in universe root as Jedi.
Snoke=not a Sith but some kind of dark side force priest ala the cool blind guy?
Quote from: Tyr on January 01, 2017, 03:56:42 PM
Jedha. Jedi.
The name seems a bit odd being so close to a real life place....but....what if there is a reason....that being it is from the same in universe root as Jedi.
Snoke=not a Sith but some kind of dark side force priest ala the cool blind guy?
Are you currently on something? :unsure:
Went and saw the movie on the 30th. Finally able to discuss.
Really liked it. Did NOT like it as much as TFA for some reason. Perhaps it's just because I've never liked prequels, even when well done (which this was). Really liked how it was more grey - the Rebels weren't perfect, and even Krennic wasn't an absolute evil (though there's no doubt who is a good guy and who is a bad guy).
Story did feel rushed. Felt like there would be a bit more backstory to the blind guy and his buddy, but honestly I never even really retained their names.
The CGI Tarkin just felt wrong - perhaps just due to too much screen time. The brief moment of young Leia worked fine for me though.
Felt like I could hear the age in Vader's voice (James Earl Jones is 85 after all).
I have decided not to take the boys. Not that I think they'd be scared, but honestly I think it's a bit too long. All the guys like Star Wars, but I only took oldest Timmy to see TFA in the theatre. I think it's easier just to wait for the DVD/streaming release and show it to all the guys.
Took the girlfriend to see it the day before yesterday.
She had never seen any Star Wars movies before so I made her watch the original trilogy a few days before, which she loved.
One of her first comments to me post-movie was "the actor who played Tarkin has aged really well!" I guess that means the CGI recreation of Peter Cushing was really convincing. I felt like I could tell it wasn't him, but then again I knew Cushing had been dead for a while.
I also felt like Vader's voice sounded weird. Maybe they should have recast James Earl Jones? Surely there are others who could imitate him, just like that kid I saw on Ellen who can do Don LaFontaine's voice perfectly.
Overall I loved the movie, thought it was better than TFA, and would rank it at #3 overall, between ANH and ROTJ.
Saw it with my girlfriend yesterday. I loved it, I would also rank it above Jedi and only behind Empire and New Hope. She'd never seen a Star Wars movie before, but she liked it. The fact that everybody died turned her off a bit though.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 02, 2017, 01:06:47 AM
The fact that everybody died turned her off a bit though.
I know, right? Tarkin should have known better than to waste a talented project manager like Krennic. :ultra:
Apparently, before the reshoot, Jyn and Cassian made it back up into orbit, only to be killed by Vader on the ship.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on January 02, 2017, 01:37:38 AM
Apparently, before the reshoot, Jyn and Cassian made it back up into orbit, only to be killed by Vader on the ship.
That would have made the scene too awesome to handle. Disney was right to reshoot it.
What is up with platonic relationships and Star Wars? First Rey weirdly friendzones Finn in The Force Awakens and then after there was this tension between Jyn and Cassian (congrats on being a new Star Wars hero with more than on syllable in your name btw) they hold hands and hug chastely while dying? What is this? It seems like a conscious choice I just don't understand why.
Though considering how having children usually goes for Star Wars characters maybe it is just a self-preserving instinct.
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2016, 05:14:41 PM
I just had an offer to see this again. Like a sensible person, I said no thanks.
Thanks for the info!
I was also wondering what you had for breakfast. Please keep us updated.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 02, 2017, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2016, 05:14:41 PM
I just had an offer to see this again. Like a sensible person, I said no thanks.
Thanks for the info!
I was also wondering what you had for breakfast. Please keep us updated.
Probably tea. he's gone native. sad really.
Quote from: HVC on January 02, 2017, 08:06:30 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 02, 2017, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2016, 05:14:41 PM
I just had an offer to see this again. Like a sensible person, I said no thanks.
Thanks for the info!
I was also wondering what you had for breakfast. Please keep us updated.
Probably tea. he's gone native. sad really.
Ed keeps us up to date on his bowel movements, and garbon keeps us up to date on what movies he's currently not seeing. Some people just have "their thing." Best leave them to it.
My bowel movements are a cultural touchstone.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 02, 2017, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2016, 05:14:41 PM
I just had an offer to see this again. Like a sensible person, I said no thanks.
Thanks for the info!
I was also wondering what you had for breakfast. Please keep us updated.
Oh, darling, I don't have time to bring you up to speed with the class. If you want to maintain good grades, you'll simply need to up your attendance.
I loved the movie. Thought it was easily the best one since ep.5, which has long been my favorite. Wonderful attention to detail in the production design, I was especially impressed that the tough looking rebel X and Y wing pilots all looked like they had come from a casting call in Los Angeles in 1979. Wonderful stuff.
Made Force Awakens look quite weak by comparison. Shows the difference between loving homage and clumsy pastiche too well.
Yeah, besides the used old footage of Gold and Red Leaders, I thought the pilots and ground soldiers looked sufficiently gruff - it's something I noticed between old and modern movies: extras and bit parts were much less of a beauty pageant in the olden days.
Saw it yesterday, loved it. I had read the spoiler-free review from the NYT previously and had low expectations , since they trashed it.
I don't what they're smoking, I loved it. I wonder what the reshoots were about, anybody know? Katmai?
I agree the characters were maybe a bit underdeveloped, but it's a 2 hour movie, we can't ask for too much. I think the Saw Guerera parts were necessary plot-wise. He's Galen's contact with the rebellion, he trusted his only child to him/ I thought themexican actor (captain Cassian?) killed it, loved K2-SO, the monk and his buddy was endearing, the pilot defector brave etc. Every death hit me hard, and I felt numb leaving the theater, what a bloodbath.
The rebels desperately trying to get the plans out to the corellian corvette while being mowed down by Vader... Jesus fucking Christ allmighty.
It also cast some stuff in the original trilogy in a new light. Like in the beginning of Episode 4 when Leia tells Vader she's on a diplomatic voyage while we literally just saw her escape the battle: understandably, Vader calls her out on being a rebel traitor, duh lol. Cgi was well done. Somebody that never saw the original trilogy might not have noticed.
Overall very strong.
My rankings:
5 - Empire
4 - New Hope
Rogue One
3 - Sith
7 - Force Awakens
6 - Jedi
2 - Clones
1 - Phantom menace
Watched Jedi last night with the boys again. Never understood the Jedi haters - it's a damn fine movie. And certainly better than Revenge of the Sith.
Quote from: Barrister on January 03, 2017, 06:00:33 PM
Watched Jedi last night with the boys again. Never understood the Jedi haters - it's a damn fine movie. And certainly better than Revenge of the Sith.
Wholeheartedly agree. Jedi gets a lot of crap for the Ewoks, and it's deserved, but it gets many more things right, imho. The final confrontation on the Death Star and the ensuing redemption of Darth Vader is the kind of emotional punch that Rogue One lacked to really bat it out of the park.
ROTS is embarrassing.
:mad:
I see star wars as the story of Darth Vader. His descent, his damnation and finally his redemption. As I said, I'm a total fanboy, comics, tabletop RPGs, video games, figurines etc, so that might colour my views, but I thought the becoming of Vader was interesting.
It's also why the clone wars tv show was badass for me, and why Episode 7 was just meh. No Vader = not much interest.
Quote from: celedhring on January 03, 2017, 06:04:57 PM
Jedi gets a lot of crap for the Ewoks, and it's deserved,
The ewoks are great. :lol:
Though the best part of Jedi is on Tatooine.
Quote from: Valmy on January 02, 2017, 07:26:53 PM
What is up with platonic relationships and Star Wars? First Rey weirdly friendzones Finn in The Force Awakens and then after there was this tension between Jyn and Cassian (congrats on being a new Star Wars hero with more than on syllable in your name btw) they hold hands and hug chastely while dying? What is this? It seems like a conscious choice I just don't understand why.
Though considering how having children usually goes for Star Wars characters maybe it is just a self-preserving instinct.
I like it.
Always annoys me how in films the lead man and lead woman always have to have something going on between them.
Quote from: celedhring on January 03, 2017, 06:04:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 03, 2017, 06:00:33 PM
Watched Jedi last night with the boys again. Never understood the Jedi haters - it's a damn fine movie. And certainly better than Revenge of the Sith.
Wholeheartedly agree. Jedi gets a lot of crap for the Ewoks, and it's deserved, but it gets many more things right, imho. The final confrontation on the Death Star and the ensuing redemption of Darth Vader is the kind of emotional punch that Rogue One lacked to really bat it out of the park.
ROTS is embarrassing.
I don't quite understand the Jedi hate, either. I think ROTJ is better than ANH.
Quote from: Tyr on January 03, 2017, 07:04:09 PM
I like it.
Always annoys me how in films the lead man and lead woman always have to have something going on between them.
There are hundreds of movies where this is not the case. Including every Star Wars film except two of the prequels :P
But it was weird in this case. They set it up like Finn had the hots for Rey and then clearly there was tension between Cassian and Jyn and in both cases they seemed to have intentionally had it go nowhere. I just do not understand what they are going for there.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 03, 2017, 07:20:41 PM
I don't quite understand the Jedi hate, either. I think ROTJ is better than ANH.
I get it. The culture was saturated with Star Wars hype and this film was CRAZILY hyped. It was cool to hate on it as a backlash. And it does have problems. Better than ANH? Well we will just agree to disagree there.
I don't get the love for ROTS. Now that film stinks.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 03, 2017, 06:20:55 PM
:mad:
I see star wars as the story of Darth Vader. His descent, his damnation and finally his redemption. As I said, I'm a total fanboy, comics, tabletop RPGs, video games, figurines etc, so that might colour my views, but I thought the becoming of Vader was interesting.
It's also why the clone wars tv show was badass for me, and why Episode 7 was just meh. No Vader = not much interest.
Nerd.
Quote from: Barrister on January 03, 2017, 06:00:33 PM
Watched Jedi last night with the boys again. Never understood the Jedi haters - it's a damn fine movie. And certainly better than Revenge of the Sith.
Ewoks.
Quote from: celedhring on January 03, 2017, 06:04:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 03, 2017, 06:00:33 PM
Watched Jedi last night with the boys again. Never understood the Jedi haters - it's a damn fine movie. And certainly better than Revenge of the Sith.
Wholeheartedly agree. Jedi gets a lot of crap for the Ewoks, and it's deserved, but it gets many more things right, imho. The final confrontation on the Death Star and the ensuing redemption of Darth Vader is the kind of emotional punch that Rogue One lacked to really bat it out of the park.
I think it gets fairly panned for two reasons:
1. Ewoks.
2. Another Death Star? Really? That was the best idea they could come up with?
There is plenty to like about Jedi, but those two things were pretty damn lame, and the stuff that WAS great about it (the redemption of Vader, and confrontation with Luke and the Emperor) could have been done just as well without the addition of Ewoks or yet another Death Star.
I like Return of the Jedi, but Ewoks was a big problem. The idea that a native uprising surprises and defeats the imperial garrison can be done, if executed well. But Ewoks defeating the best imperial legion with sticks is stretching it.
I thought it was lame as a kid. I mean I was here for big battles with awesome ships and stuff.
Now I just sort of tolerate it so I can get to the Emperor parts. It was definitely not the profound message Lucas intended because, like you said Mono, it was just too ridiculous the way it was done.
The Saw Guerrera plot is there to make the transgressive comparison between the "good" rebels of the SW universe and the Islamic insurgent types of our world. A ballsy thing to do. But in terms of making the plot work, he's unnecessary - there are any number of ways for her to go to ground.
It points to a broader problem that Jyn isn't the strongest character (no fault of Jones). Starting with the terribly clichéd backstory. Then the pace of the action forces them to accelerate the character arc, such that within a matter of hours she is transformed from surly rebel without a cause, into the inspiring leader of grizzled veterans.
Cassian OTOH is more interesting. Having his first appearance be a brutal murder was brillant - a kind of hat tip to the Han Shot First crowd but really upping the ante, for a conflicted character a lot more complex than Solo. In a movie whose strength is that it brings a gritty ethical realism to the SW universe, where there are real hard choices to be made, he is the key character. Or should be. I understand all the reasons for wanting a female lead, but having already done that to good effect in the prior movie it didn't need to be done here.
BTW I disagree with a comment above that moral ambiguity was not previously part of the SW movie canon. It's always been there to some degree - yes there is a light side and dark side, but they are both aspects of the same Force. The Jedi put their trust in the Force, but the same Force that helps Luke destroy the Death Star is also the same Force that allowed the empire to wipe out the Jedi and allow it to be built in the first place. Moral ambiguity is also is also present in the prequels, though not always spelled out as clearly.
I am ok with the idea of a second death star. It is the logical thing to do. If I can build a death star, which is a weapon that I believe will bring me ultimate victory, but it was destroyed due to a design flaw, then it is natural to build another one with the flaw corrected.
Quote from: Monoriu on January 03, 2017, 08:25:25 PM
I am ok with the idea of a second death star. It is the logical thing to do. If I can build a death star, which is a weapon that I believe will bring me ultimate victory, but it was destroyed due to a design flaw, then it is natural to build another one with the flaw corrected.
You can justify it "logically", but from a storytelling perspective, it was lazy and boring.
Indeed, which is another really *yawn* part about the Force Awakens. Now it's Starkiller base! The exact same shit but it doesn't have hyperspace but it doesn't matter since my big cannon can shoot down whole system light years away in like 30 seconds and also it's a big red shooting color isn't it cool!!1111oneone111!!
So, so stupid.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 03, 2017, 08:51:22 PM
Indeed, which is another really *yawn* part about the Force Awakens. Now it's Starkiller base! The exact same shit but it doesn't have hyperspace but it doesn't matter since my big cannon can shoot down whole system light years away in like 30 seconds and also it's a big red shooting color isn't it cool!!1111oneone111!!
So, so stupid.
Yeah there was a lot of stuff I liked about TFA but WOW was the plot bad. Laughably bad. So bad the characters were joking about it
That trope drives me nuts btw. If you are not a comedy do not lampshade how stupid your movie is, make one that is not stupid.
I do love nutty emo sith kid though. God bless him.
Yeah. That's no moon that's a space station!
WE HAVE TO DO BETTER!
Thats no planet, that's a space station!
Blech.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 03, 2017, 08:51:22 PM
Indeed, which is another really *yawn* part about the Force Awakens. Now it's Starkiller base! The exact same shit but it doesn't have hyperspace but it doesn't matter since my big cannon can shoot down whole system light years away in like 30 seconds and also it's a big red shooting color isn't it cool!!1111oneone111!!
So, so stupid.
Very true. Typical JJ. Star Wars for the assburger generation.
JJ Abrams is a hack.
Rian Johnson will save us all.
Quote from: Monoriu on January 03, 2017, 08:18:01 PM
I like Return of the Jedi, but Ewoks was a big problem. The idea that a native uprising surprises and defeats the imperial garrison can be done, if executed well. But Ewoks defeating the best imperial legion with sticks is stretching it.
He originally planned to use Wookies. He should have stayed with that.
Quote from: Valmy on January 02, 2017, 07:26:53 PM
What is up with platonic relationships and Star Wars? First Rey weirdly friendzones Finn in The Force Awakens and then after there was this tension between Jyn and Cassian (congrats on being a new Star Wars hero with more than on syllable in your name btw) they hold hands and hug chastely while dying? What is this? It seems like a conscious choice I just don't understand why.
Though considering how having children usually goes for Star Wars characters maybe it is just a self-preserving instinct.
It's to pass the Mako Mori Test.
QuoteThe "Mako Mori test", formulated by a Tumblr user and named after the only significant female character of Pacific Rim, asks whether a female character has a narrative arc that is not about supporting a man's story.
Quote from: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 07:46:33 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 03, 2017, 07:04:09 PM
I like it.
Always annoys me how in films the lead man and lead woman always have to have something going on between them.
There are hundreds of movies where this is not the case. Including every Star Wars film except two of the prequels :P
But it was weird in this case. They set it up like Finn had the hots for Rey and then clearly there was tension between Cassian and Jyn and in both cases they seemed to have intentionally had it go nowhere. I just do not understand what they are going for there.
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man
and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Actually I can think of quite a few movies that fulfill these conditions.
But they are anime. Girls und Panzer der Film for example.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh101%2FMonoriu%2F72644l_zpsonyqwluf.jpg&hash=9e76ad3918e69fb6a69502cfd93a1a99ed82a861) (http://s62.photobucket.com/user/Monoriu/media/72644l_zpsonyqwluf.jpg.html)
Finally saw the movie tonight. It was what I expected. I'd have been disappointed if they hadn't all died. I was a bit disappointed that Jin and Cassian got all googly-eyed at each other at the end. They were war buddies. There wasn't time for any love shit. Respect? Absolutely. Googly-eyes? Puh-leez.
Max pointed out that it was way contrived that each member of the team died mere moments after they completed the one job they had to do. The exception was the big guy with the blind monk, and Cassian and Jin. Still not sure what the big guy was supposed to be doing other than being mad. He killed more in the scenes before his death scene, but it was very reminiscent of the old WWII movies of John Wayne's era. So I'll give that a pass, I guess. But the pilot plugged in his thing - died. The monk pulled the switch - died. Droid gave them the right file - died. Jin and Cassian made it to the beach for the googly-eye thing after they did their thing, though.
I'm with everyone else on the Saw Gerrera bit. I assumed that was just to show that someone else needed a suit to live, and it wasn't just a Darth Vader thing. Plus, it was the only place we really got to see some neat aliens.
Glad the dad died. Glad they were stuck on the planet at the end. Loved the CGI characters. Glad I went to see it, but not sure I'll see it again in the theater. I'm not a big fan of war movies in general, and this really reminded me of the movies my dad used to watch when I was a kid.
Quote from: Monoriu on January 03, 2017, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Actually I can think of quite a few movies that fulfill these conditions.
But they are anime. Girls und Panzer der Film for example.
:mellow:
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 11:13:41 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on January 03, 2017, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Actually I can think of quite a few movies that fulfill these conditions.
But they are anime. Girls und Panzer der Film for example.
:mellow:
What? It is an action movie, 95% of the cast are females, they do 100% of the action, and there is no romance in the film. It is all about...school girls battling each other in WWII tanks. In a sports setting, of course.
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 07:46:33 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 03, 2017, 07:04:09 PM
I like it.
Always annoys me how in films the lead man and lead woman always have to have something going on between them.
There are hundreds of movies where this is not the case. Including every Star Wars film except two of the prequels :P
But it was weird in this case. They set it up like Finn had the hots for Rey and then clearly there was tension between Cassian and Jyn and in both cases they seemed to have intentionally had it go nowhere. I just do not understand what they are going for there.
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Aliens. :P
(well sure, Ripley was "saved" a couple times...but that happened back-and-forth throughout, and she had the first, and last, big saves)
And I won't even try the "hundreds"....definitely not action films anyway. ;)
Yeah, Alien is the gold standard for women. But when you really can only pull that one up, I think it's kind of making my point. ;)
Best part of that movie, by the way? A woman kicks ass, and a man gives birth. :lol:
I think the question was intended as rhetorical guys. :P
Not really. I'm always looking for new movies to watch. :)
But in truth, it's nice to watch an action movie where a woman is treated like a person and not a Love Interest. Especially when she's the main protagonist. There just aren't a lot out there, and it's refreshing when it happens.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 03, 2017, 11:30:18 PM
I think the question was intended as rhetorical guys. :P
I know. :P
And for the record, I didn't see the "googly eyes" between Jin and Cassian that everyone else seems to have seen. I just saw the comradely/respectful, "whell, we're gonna die now...was really cool working with you" look.
It's nice to watch a sitcom where the dad isn't a buffoon too but good luck with that.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F553%2F000025478%2Fray-romano.jpg&hash=3acdd6780a735744d22feb302db8810e6945ca67)
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
Not really. I'm always looking for new movies to watch. :)
But in truth, it's nice to watch an action movie where a woman is treated like a person and not a Love Interest. Especially when she's the main protagonist. There just aren't a lot out there, and it's refreshing when it happens.
Example where the woman is lead is indeed quite hard. However, examples of action films where both the male lead, and their love interest, are equally shallow characters can also be pretty easy to find. Then it is just a comparison of screen time. :P
Woman being the prize to be earned is a pretty well-worn territory. It's dumb and lazy writing.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 03, 2017, 11:33:52 PM
It's nice to watch a sitcom where the dad isn't a buffoon too but good luck with that.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F553%2F000025478%2Fray-romano.jpg&hash=3acdd6780a735744d22feb302db8810e6945ca67)
The Cosby Show
Eight is Enough
Different Strokes
Family Ties
Full House
The Nanny
That 70s Show
Sister Sister
Malcolm in the Middle
8 Simple Rules
George Lopez
According to Jim
That's about the time I stopped watching TV. But there are quite a few to play around with there. :)
Make up your fucking minds if you're talking about Aliens or Alien. I love Aliens from a woman-perspective: you have Ripley and Vasquez and the Queen (and Gingrich), and the men are competent if unspectacular (Hicks), big-mouths (Hudson) or automatons (Bishop). BUT you have feels between Ripley and Hicks so DISQUALIFIED.
I don't get why "no romance plot!" is such a litmus test. Most protagonists in commercial Western flicks will get a romance plot no matter their gender. It's tired but that's how Hollywood rolls, for females AND males. The issue is whether being the object of the romance plot is the character's sole reason for existence, which is never going to be the case if the female in question is the protagonist.
So, the question you can point at Rogue One is not why Jyn and Cassian look lovingly at each other when they die, but why there's not a single female besides Jyn in the Rogue One team.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 04:23:16 AM
I don't get why "no romance plot!" is such a litmus test. Most protagonists in commercial Western flicks will get a romance plot no matter their gender. It's tired but that's how Hollywood rolls, for females AND males. The issue is whether being the object of the romance plot is the character's sole reason for existence, which is never going to be the case if the female in question is the protagonist.
So, the question you can point at Rogue One is not why Jyn and Cassian look lovingly at each other when they die, but why there's not a single female besides Jyn in the Rogue One team.
Women typically don't like romance movies or novels.
I just watch the story. I don't understand why people care about which races or genders are represented in the cast.
Quote from: Monoriu on January 04, 2017, 04:52:45 AM
I just watch the story. I don't understand why people care about which races or genders are represented in the cast.
OK Brokeback.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 04:23:16 AM
The issue is whether being the object of the romance plot is the character's sole reason for existence, which is never going to be the case if the female in question is the protagonist.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa1.files.collegefashion.net%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fc_fit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cdpr_1.5%2Cq_40%2Cw_620%2FMTI4ODM3MTQwNjExMTEwMTYy.jpg&hash=c67f70bb3b553a9c2fbefaefa1ff456cadbdd054)
Haven't seen a single Twilight flick, so I can't possibly comment on what Stewart's character does (or rather does not) do in them. Romance flicks of course exist, and the main characters in them will obviously exist to be part of a romance plot. But the idea is that the protagonist is the subject of the romance, not the object. Otherwise the protagonist isn't the protagonist at all.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:11:42 AM
Haven't seen a single Twilight flick, so I can't possibly comment on what Stewart's character does (or rather does not) do in them. Romance flicks of course exist, and the main characters in them will exist only to be part of a romance plot. But the idea is that the protagonist is the subject of the romance, not the object. Otherwise the protagonist isn't the protagonist at all.
She's the protagonist but also very passive. The vampire she loves is clearly the 'love interest' but he's also a more active character than she is. He's still not the protagonist though.
That sounds like a pretty bad movie. Anyhow, I would really have to watch it in order to comment on it, and I certainly won't.
Anyway, the main point I want to make is that there's no escaping a romance plot if you're the protagonist of a Hollywood movie, regardless of whether you have a dick or not. There are outliers, and you'll find many more male-led outliers than female-led outliers, just because there's so many more male protagonists around. That's the issue.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:21:25 AM
just because there's so many more male protagonists around. That's the issue.
Not just limited to movies.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shamusyoung.com%2Ftwentysidedtale%2Fimages%2Fbrown_hair.jpg&hash=7f4ea87c0c6dd8a893ae7483425265ae8b91387b)
Quote from: The Brain on January 04, 2017, 04:15:43 AM
Make up your fucking minds if you're talking about Aliens or Alien. I love Aliens from a woman-perspective: you have Ripley and Vasquez and the Queen (and Gingrich), and the men are competent if unspectacular (Hicks), big-mouths (Hudson) or automatons (Bishop). BUT you have feels between Ripley and Hicks so DISQUALIFIED.
I was talking Aliens. And there are no sexy feels between Ripley and Hicks. :mad:
(though not impossible in the future...if you didn't have Alien 3 and they went back home to Earth as they should have)
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 04, 2017, 05:25:18 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 04, 2017, 04:15:43 AM
Make up your fucking minds if you're talking about Aliens or Alien. I love Aliens from a woman-perspective: you have Ripley and Vasquez and the Queen (and Gingrich), and the men are competent if unspectacular (Hicks), big-mouths (Hudson) or automatons (Bishop). BUT you have feels between Ripley and Hicks so DISQUALIFIED.
I was talking Aliens. And there are no sexy feels between Ripley and Hicks. :mad:
Love doesn't have to be sexy. Am I right, every girlfriend katmai's ever had?
I'd have let the dropship pilot chick be my facehugger.
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 04, 2017, 05:30:43 AM
I'd have let the dropship pilot chick be my facehugger.
Yeah. :wub:
Quote from: Habbaku on January 03, 2017, 10:04:35 PM
JJ Abrams is a hack.
Rian Johnson will save us all.
This is my hope as well.
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:55:03 PM
It's to pass the Mako Mori Test.
QuoteThe "Mako Mori test", formulated by a Tumblr user and named after the only significant female character of Pacific Rim, asks whether a female character has a narrative arc that is not about supporting a man's story.
Why did the name of that test change to something from Pacific Rim?
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:55:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 02, 2017, 07:26:53 PM
What is up with platonic relationships and Star Wars? First Rey weirdly friendzones Finn in The Force Awakens and then after there was this tension between Jyn and Cassian (congrats on being a new Star Wars hero with more than on syllable in your name btw) they hold hands and hug chastely while dying? What is this? It seems like a conscious choice I just don't understand why.
Though considering how having children usually goes for Star Wars characters maybe it is just a self-preserving instinct.
It's to pass the Mako Mori Test.
QuoteThe "Mako Mori test", formulated by a Tumblr user and named after the only significant female character of Pacific Rim, asks whether a female character has a narrative arc that is not about supporting a man's story.
Jyn's narrative arc is about regaining idealism and sacrificing herself for it. Even if they had fleshed out the romantic arc between her and Cassian, it would have passed the test - it would have never been her main arc.
She still supports Cassian's story, anyway. She gives him a venue for redemption, which is Cassian's story arc. And that's ok, that's what good writing does. IMHO, sexist writing is when the only support female characters give to male characters is romantic/sexual in nature.
Regarding Rey and Finn, I think they're saving up the romantic arc for the upcoming Eps, and they just wanted to establish the foundations in TFA. Which probably was the best choice.
re: Rey and Finn - remember that Jedi are not supposed to have romantic relationships. It's what led Anakin to the Dark Side after all. I imagine there will be some level of romantic tension in Ep 8 or 9 revolving around that point.
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Huh? Yes lots of movies have male and female leads where they are not each other's love interests. Most of the Star Wars films for example.
QuoteThe "Mako Mori test", formulated by a Tumblr user and named after the only significant female character of Pacific Rim, asks whether a female character has a narrative arc that is not about supporting a man's story.
So if Jyn and Cassian smooch as they are being killed suddenly Jyn's arc is about supporting a man? WTF?
Anyway that was not really where I was going with my thoughts.
I was just curious as to why this choice was being made. They seem to have set it up so not only is there not going to be any romance but that you notice there is not going to be any because you are expecting it. So some kind of message is being communicated. Maybe it is a feminist thing. Not sure.
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 10:36:03 AM
re: Rey and Finn - remember that Jedi are not supposed to have romantic relationships. It's what led Anakin to the Dark Side after all. I imagine there will be some level of romantic tension in Ep 8 or 9 revolving around that point.
I think they pretty much established Rey has no interest in Finn. It would be weird at this point to go back on that. IMO anyway.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 10:38:03 AM
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 10:36:03 AM
re: Rey and Finn - remember that Jedi are not supposed to have romantic relationships. It's what led Anakin to the Dark Side after all. I imagine there will be some level of romantic tension in Ep 8 or 9 revolving around that point.
I think they pretty much established Rey has no interest in Finn. It would be weird at this point to go back on that. IMO anyway.
Unrequited romance is the basis of many love stories. I think it will get played in the future Eps, and it doesn't have to end with Rey and Finn living happily ever after.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 10:45:45 AM
Unrequited romance is the basis of many love stories. I think it will get played in the future Eps, and it doesn't have to end with Rey and Finn living happily ever after.
Ah. Maybe so. I never liked that arc though.
But I guess people always like the Eponine character.
Anyway none of the couples in Star Wars have ever lived happily ever after. Even if they come close they usually get murdered by Storm Troopers eventually.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Huh? Yes lots of movies have male and female leads where they are not each other's love interests. Most of the Star Wars films for example.
QuoteThe "Mako Mori test", formulated by a Tumblr user and named after the only significant female character of Pacific Rim, asks whether a female character has a narrative arc that is not about supporting a man's story.
So if Jyn and Cassian smooch as they are being killed suddenly Jyn's arc is about supporting a man? WTF?
Anyway that was not really where I was going with my thoughts.
I was just curious as to why this choice was being made. They seem to have set it up so not only is there not going to be any romance but that you notice there is not going to be any because you are expecting it. So some kind of message is being communicated. Maybe it is a feminist thing. Not sure.
Man you are a relic. Sex isn't sexist? It's in the fucking word.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 04:23:16 AM
I don't get why "no romance plot!" is such a litmus test. Most protagonists in commercial Western flicks will get a romance plot no matter their gender. It's tired but that's how Hollywood rolls, for females AND males. The issue is whether being the object of the romance plot is the character's sole reason for existence, which is never going to be the case if the female in question is the protagonist.
So, the question you can point at Rogue One is not why Jyn and Cassian look lovingly at each other when they die, but why there's not a single female besides Jyn in the Rogue One team.
That came up during the movie... I assure you. <_<
"Oh, but there were female pilots during the fight!" :rolleyes:
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:21:25 AM
That sounds like a pretty bad movie. Anyhow, I would really have to watch it in order to comment on it, and I certainly won't.
Anyway, the main point I want to make is that there's no escaping a romance plot if you're the protagonist of a Hollywood movie, regardless of whether you have a dick or not. There are outliers, and you'll find many more male-led outliers than female-led outliers, just because there's so many more male protagonists around. That's the issue.
That's true, but it's such a ridiculously weighted situation.
Here are the top 50 movies without a romance in them, according to Playboy magazine:
http://www.playboy.com/.../50-best-movies-without.../slide-1 (http://www.playboy.com/.../50-best-movies-without.../slide-1)
Of those 50, I counted 12 with female protagonists, three of whom were children and one was a fish.
I am not sure what the point is here Meri.
There should be more movies with female protagonists in general, or there should be more movies without love interests, or there should be more movies with female protagonists without love interests?
The last two Star Wars both had female lead roles. This is a good thing...right? Not good enough though? What?
Meri's point is it's icky when boys and girls kiss.
Rogue One team should have been at least 50% female.
MOAR SWEDES
I can't click meri's link right now, but how many of those top 50 movies, of which only 12 have female protags, were made in the last decade or so?
Quote from: Monoriu on January 03, 2017, 08:25:25 PM
I am ok with the idea of a second death star. It is the logical thing to do. If I can build a death star, which is a weapon that I believe will bring me ultimate victory, but it was destroyed due to a design flaw, then it is natural to build another one with the flaw corrected.
they likely started building it before the 1st one was fully operational.
In A New Hope Leia has to save the two bumbling male characters asses when they practically botch their rescue attempt of the "damsel in distress." She basically rescues herself, along with help from the two comic relief characters, the droids. Luke and Han are bumbling bystanders during the Death Star rescue.
A New Hope was a classic, unlikely to be repeated, despite the silly attempt made by Hollywood darling JJ Abrams.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 11:51:20 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:21:25 AM
That sounds like a pretty bad movie. Anyhow, I would really have to watch it in order to comment on it, and I certainly won't.
Anyway, the main point I want to make is that there's no escaping a romance plot if you're the protagonist of a Hollywood movie, regardless of whether you have a dick or not. There are outliers, and you'll find many more male-led outliers than female-led outliers, just because there's so many more male protagonists around. That's the issue.
That's true, but it's such a ridiculously weighted situation.
Here are the top 50 movies without a romance in them, according to Playboy magazine:
http://www.playboy.com/.../50-best-movies-without.../slide-1 (http://www.playboy.com/.../50-best-movies-without.../slide-1)
Of those 50, I counted 12 with female protagonists, three of whom were children and one was a fish.
Now let me clarify something here.
I do not need movies to have romance plots nor was I demanding these two films have them. I was specifically addressing the fact that they seemed to be set up and then intentionally not followed through on and I was curious as to why.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:21:25 AM
That sounds like a pretty bad movie.
#2 is awful. A friend of mine had me watch it. I endured close to 60 minutes, because I am a very strong man. :P (well, i had beers to finish :D ).
But I'm not gonna repeat the experience any time soon. And I never watched the other 2 or 3 of the saga.
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 10:36:03 AM
re: Rey and Finn - remember that Jedi are not supposed to have romantic relationships.
that was for the old rules, when there was a council. Now, who knows? There ain't many jedis left, and they need to make babies real fast.
Hey they said Jedis couldn't have romantic relationships. They said nothing about making babies.
Quote from: viper37 on January 04, 2017, 12:22:03 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:21:25 AM
That sounds like a pretty bad movie.
#2 is awful. A friend of mine had me watch it. I endured close to 60 minutes, because I am a very strong man. :P (well, i had beers to finish :D ).
But I'm not gonna repeat the experience any time soon. And I never watched the other 2 or 3 of the saga.
The prequels are just bad films. IMO anyway so yeah skip them.
Though Zoupa liked them so maybe they are not as bad as I remember.
But I really enjoyed TFA so it is not like I have super high standards or anything.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 04:23:16 AM
I don't get why "no romance plot!" is such a litmus test. Most protagonists in commercial Western flicks will get a romance plot no matter their gender. It's tired but that's how Hollywood rolls, for females AND males. The issue is whether being the object of the romance plot is the character's sole reason for existence, which is never going to be the case if the female in question is the protagonist.
So, the question you can point at Rogue One is not why Jyn and Cassian look lovingly at each other when they die, but why there's not a single female besides Jyn in the Rogue One team.
That came up during the movie... I assure you. <_<
"Oh, but there were female pilots during the fight!" :rolleyes:
somebody was needed to watch over the kids and keep the home in good order ;)
Nah.
I guess it would have been a little weird to suddenly introduce female fighters there, in a prequel, when that concept was more or less absent from the other movies.
Episode 3 is bearable, but still not good.
Episode 2 and 1 are absolute monstrosities. 2 especially. The total inability of Lucas to write and direct a romantic plot (just to tie in with the rest of the discussion) is absolutely earth-shattering (to tie in with the Deathstar discussion).
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 12:33:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 04, 2017, 12:22:03 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:21:25 AM
That sounds like a pretty bad movie.
#2 is awful. A friend of mine had me watch it. I endured close to 60 minutes, because I am a very strong man. :P (well, i had beers to finish :D ).
But I'm not gonna repeat the experience any time soon. And I never watched the other 2 or 3 of the saga.
The prequels are just bad films. IMO anyway so yeah skip them.
Though Zoupa liked them so maybe they are not as bad as I remember.
But I really enjoyed TFA so it is not like I have super high standards or anything.
I was referring to Twilight.
I saw the prequels, more than once. They're not great, but I have seen worst. There is one redeeming scene in The Phantom Menace, the rest of the plot could have been done away with, though :P
I liked the Yoda fight in #2. It is consistent with what we see of Yoda and what he tells us of the Force in #5.
#3, the transition, even though hinted in #2, it just happens way too quickly. I would have loved Anakin moving toward the Dark Side more gradually over the space of 2 movies.
Quote from: viper37 on January 04, 2017, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 04:23:16 AM
I don't get why "no romance plot!" is such a litmus test. Most protagonists in commercial Western flicks will get a romance plot no matter their gender. It's tired but that's how Hollywood rolls, for females AND males. The issue is whether being the object of the romance plot is the character's sole reason for existence, which is never going to be the case if the female in question is the protagonist.
So, the question you can point at Rogue One is not why Jyn and Cassian look lovingly at each other when they die, but why there's not a single female besides Jyn in the Rogue One team.
That came up during the movie... I assure you. <_<
"Oh, but there were female pilots during the fight!" :rolleyes:
somebody was needed to watch over the kids and keep the home in good order ;)
Nah.
I guess it would have been a little weird to suddenly introduce female fighters there, in a prequel, when that concept was more or less absent from the other movies.
As opposed to the female pilots they introduced? :P Plus in the Rogue One team, only Cassian is an enlisted Rebel. Everybody else is a robot or they pick up along the way. I thought it slightly weird that all supporting characters were guys when they already had gone the "trouble" of putting a female lead in there. Saw Gerera, a dude too. The baddies, all dudes. Oh, there's Mon Mothma in there! I guess it's all right then.
It didn't help that for some weird reason I couldn't stop thinking of the Firefly crew.
The Empire has to be all white dudes. It is tradition and emphasizes their evil.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
The Empire has to be all white dudes. It is tradition and emphasizes their evil.
Not enough British accents though. I was a bit disappointed.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
The Empire has to be all white dudes. It is tradition and emphasizes their evil.
FN-2187 was black though.
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
The Empire has to be all white dudes. It is tradition and emphasizes their evil.
FN-2187 was black though.
The First Order has embraced diversity. They even had a woman captain.
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
The Empire has to be all white dudes. It is tradition and emphasizes their evil.
FN-2187 was black though.
The First Order is more politically correct. They have women in their ranks too (Phasma and some officer chicks in the background).
Quote from: viper37 on January 04, 2017, 12:22:03 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 05:21:25 AM
That sounds like a pretty bad movie.
#2 is awful. A friend of mine had me watch it. I endured close to 60 minutes, because I am a very strong man. :P (well, i had beers to finish :D ).
But I'm not gonna repeat the experience any time soon. And I never watched the other 2 or 3 of the saga.
Actually, I think I also saw the 2nd one while drinking (first was in a theater when I had a friend bribe me with champagne). I think that's the one where there's a longish montage of how she does nothing for months but write emails she'll never send because he left her.
Quote from: garbon on January 04, 2017, 01:01:23 PM
I think that's the one where there's a longish montage of how she does nothing for months but write emails she'll never send because he left her.
:bleeding:
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 01:02:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 04, 2017, 01:01:23 PM
I think that's the one where there's a longish montage of how she does nothing for months but write emails she'll never send because he left her.
:bleeding:
2nd image in the below is that film:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/23/d5/ca/23d5ca2bc15f2e18f2088d7b6d69cb53.jpg)
edit: switched image as it didn't have the good Janeway bit. :D
Lame. What good is it saving the quadrant if you don't get laid? Coffee seems like a poor substitute. Though I do like a good cup of coffee.
Anyway, back to Twilight: LOL that sounds terrible. Well to each their own I guess.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 01:20:00 PM
Anyway, back to Twilight: LOL that sounds terrible. Well to each their own I guess.
I guess there could be some sort of appeal to teen girls with little agency in their lives to get wish fulfillment out of a girl that has little agency in her life but ultimately gets what she wants? Well actually I don't know if she ultimately gets what she wants as I never made it part movie 2. I heard that in the books she eventually is pregnant with a vampire baby that is killing her. So there's that.
I remember seeing the trailers for one of the latter movies and she had vampire superpowers and seemed to fight some other eurotrash vampires. So she might become a slightly less disgraceful role model later on.
I saw all of the movies with Mrs B at one point. They weren't very good, of course.
If I recall correctly the Kristen Stewart character is revealed to naturally be immune to vampiric mind control, so she does have some "powers" of her own. And of course later she does become a vampire herself. So she's not purely just a plaything the more powerful men in her life.
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 01:41:02 PM
So she's not purely just a plaything the more powerful men in her life.
She mopes for months then tosses herself off a cliff because her partner left her.
That is just being a loser, not being a plaything.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 01:41:02 PM
So she's not purely just a plaything the more powerful men in her life.
She mopes for months then tosses herself off a cliff because her partner left her.
That is just being a loser, not being a plaything.
Sounds more like a tosser to me.
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
I am not sure what the point is here Meri.
There should be more movies with female protagonists in general, or there should be more movies without love interests, or there should be more movies with female protagonists without love interests?
The last two Star Wars both had female lead roles. This is a good thing...right? Not good enough though? What?
I just didn't like that Jyn and Cassian made googly-eyes. :(
And Valmy wanted them to have a romance. :mad:
I was explaining why I disagreed with Valmy. Is that not okay? Have I broken some other rule here that I wasn't aware of? :unsure:
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 02:14:17 PM
I just didn't like that Jyn and Cassian made googly-eyes. :(
Wow, and you guys think I'm a prude :P
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 12:19:01 PM
Now let me clarify something here.
I do not need movies to have romance plots nor was I demanding these two films have them. I was specifically addressing the fact that they seemed to be set up and then intentionally not followed through on and I was curious as to why.
Yeah. They were in this weird, limbo thing. That end stuff seemed like it was just tacked on to give an impression of a relationship, but nothing really there.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
I am not sure what the point is here Meri.
There should be more movies with female protagonists in general, or there should be more movies without love interests, or there should be more movies with female protagonists without love interests?
The last two Star Wars both had female lead roles. This is a good thing...right? Not good enough though? What?
I just didn't like that Jyn and Cassian made googly-eyes. :(
And Valmy wanted them to have a romance. :mad:
I was explaining why I disagreed with Valmy. Is that not okay? Have I broken some other rule here that I wasn't aware of? :unsure:
While I do like a good romance I was not necessarily saying that. Though did want Jyn to get her man in the end. Is that so wrong? But go ahead and disagree with me there because it is none-the-less unrelated :P
I was trying to figure out the message the films were communicating by setting up romances and then not having them.
Quote from: viper37 on January 04, 2017, 12:34:08 PM
I guess it would have been a little weird to suddenly introduce female fighters there, in a prequel, when that concept was more or less absent from the other movies.
Fair point. It would have seemed odd.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
I am not sure what the point is here Meri.
There should be more movies with female protagonists in general, or there should be more movies without love interests, or there should be more movies with female protagonists without love interests?
The last two Star Wars both had female lead roles. This is a good thing...right? Not good enough though? What?
I just didn't like that Jyn and Cassian made googly-eyes. :(
And Valmy wanted them to have a romance. :mad:
I was explaining why I disagreed with Valmy. Is that not okay? Have I broken some other rule here that I wasn't aware of? :unsure:
That is what I don't get - whether they have a romance or don't have a romance, I don't see how it is a issue of sexism in general, or how it relates to much of anything other than some choices made by the writers of the movie.
If they were romantically involved, or not, or made google eyes or didn't, I don't see any of it as having anything to do with some meta issue about sexism.
You appear to, I think, so I am just trying to understand the logical link between their relationship and your larger concerns.
I think she is talking about a double standard when female leads have to romances but male leads don't.
Fair enough.
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:21:47 PM
That is what I don't get - whether they have a romance or don't have a romance, I don't see how it is a issue of sexism in general, or how it relates to much of anything other than some choices made by the writers of the movie.
If they were romantically involved, or not, or made google eyes or didn't, I don't see any of it as having anything to do with some meta issue about sexism.
You appear to, I think, so I am just trying to understand the logical link between their relationship and your larger concerns.
I'd like to watch an action movie with a woman in the lead that doesn't get hooked up with someone in it. I don't get to see those very often. I liked that this one started out that way, and was disappointed when it didn't end up that way.
Luke clearly had Leia as his romantic interest in both ANH and ESB. :hmm:
Quote from: Habbaku on January 04, 2017, 02:33:18 PM
Luke clearly had Leia as his romantic interest in both ANH and ESB. :hmm:
Yeah, as I said before, there's no escaping a romantic hookup if you're the lead in a Hollywood movie. I thought that list of best romance-less flicks mery posted looked actually quite good for women, given that much much less movies are made with women in the lead.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 02:33:11 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:21:47 PM
That is what I don't get - whether they have a romance or don't have a romance, I don't see how it is a issue of sexism in general, or how it relates to much of anything other than some choices made by the writers of the movie.
If they were romantically involved, or not, or made google eyes or didn't, I don't see any of it as having anything to do with some meta issue about sexism.
You appear to, I think, so I am just trying to understand the logical link between their relationship and your larger concerns.
I'd like to watch an action movie with a woman in the lead that doesn't get hooked up with someone in it. I don't get to see those very often. I liked that this one started out that way, and was disappointed when it didn't end up that way.
OK.
I guess I don't see it as an issue. Very few movies don't have some kind of romantic bit, whether the lead is male of female.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 02:33:11 PM
I'd like to watch an action movie with a woman in the lead that doesn't get hooked up with someone in it. I don't get to see those very often. I liked that this one started out that way, and was disappointed when it didn't end up that way.
So see neither of us got what we wanted :P
But why do you think they did it that way? And in two films in the same series?
I am with Valmy. I thought the romantic part of both movies was rather weird. For TFA, I just kind of assumed that there was more to the story to come, whether that be Rey and Finn together, or other interests for both of them, or some tragic mess or whatever.
For movies that are telling the story of people lives, rather than just some slice of it, the lack of a romantic interest of some kind would simply be bizarre. Are they eunuchs are something?
Rey, presumably, has grown up on the shithole planet without any other reasonable human interaction post adolescence, It would be downright weird for her not to be interested in someone in some fashion.
Finn, I don't know - what do Storm Troopers do for romance, if anything? Hell, they might actually be eunuchs....
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 02:37:41 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 02:33:11 PM
I'd like to watch an action movie with a woman in the lead that doesn't get hooked up with someone in it. I don't get to see those very often. I liked that this one started out that way, and was disappointed when it didn't end up that way.
So see neither of us got what we wanted :P
But why do you think they did it that way? And in two films in the same series?
There was zero kissing or actual romantic bits in A New Hope either, just hints at a Leia-Luke-Han triangle. They saved the actual fleshing out of the arc for the later films. That's what will happen with the new trilogy, imho.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 02:43:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 02:37:41 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 02:33:11 PM
I'd like to watch an action movie with a woman in the lead that doesn't get hooked up with someone in it. I don't get to see those very often. I liked that this one started out that way, and was disappointed when it didn't end up that way.
So see neither of us got what we wanted :P
But why do you think they did it that way? And in two films in the same series?
There was zero kissing or actual romantic bits in A New Hope either, just hints at a Leia-Luke-Han triangle. They saved the actual fleshing out of the arc for the later films. That's what will happen with the new trilogy, imho.
Do you think Finn and Rey will end up brother and sister as well?
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 02:43:01 PM
There was zero kissing or actual romantic bits in A New Hope either, just hints at a Leia-Luke-Han triangle. They saved the actual fleshing out of the arc for the later films. That's what will happen with the new trilogy, imho.
I disagree. At the end Han winks at Leia and she acknowledges him. You figure something is going to happen.
Rey, to me anyway, indicates she sees Finn as her friend and nothing more. I will be shocked, and depending on how they do it possibly annoyed, if that changes.
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:44:14 PM
Do you think Finn and Rey will end up brother and sister as well?
Luke will be all like 'Rey and Finn I am your father'
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:44:14 PM
Do you think Finn and Rey will end up brother and sister as well?
Luke will be all like 'Rey and Finn I am your father'
The one black woman in the sw universe and Luke sleeps with her? What are the odds lol
Quote from: HVC on January 04, 2017, 02:55:02 PM
The one black woman in the sw universe and Luke sleeps with her? What are the odds lol
It was that lady on the Rebel Council.
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:37:05 PM
OK.
I guess I don't see it as an issue. Very few movies don't have some kind of romantic bit, whether the lead is male of female.
I'm sure you don't. :) Because most movies have male protagonists, and most movies without a romance have male protagonists. You have a wide selection to choose from when that's the kind of movie you'd like to see. I do not.
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 02:43:01 PM
There was zero kissing or actual romantic bits in A New Hope either, just hints at a Leia-Luke-Han triangle. They saved the actual fleshing out of the arc for the later films. That's what will happen with the new trilogy, imho.
:huh: Leia kisses Luke "for luck" before they swing across the chasm together.
I think ANH still got away with it, because Leia, while being the rescuee, in turn bails out the rescuers and is strong in her own right.
Quote from: Syt on January 04, 2017, 02:59:38 PM
I think ANH still got away with it, because Leia, while being the rescuee, in turn bails out the rescuers and is strong in her own right.
Got away with what?
Leia is awesome in every possible way. She was and is my absolute hero.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 03:06:23 PM
Leia is awesome in every possible way. She was and is my absolute hero.
My favorite bit is when she strangles Jabba with the chains in ROTJ. Even when saddled with skimpy outfits and having the big hero rescue her, she still manages to come out strongly as a character.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 03:06:23 PM
Leia is awesome in every possible way. She was and is my absolute hero.
Born into privilege. :yes:
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 03:50:46 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 03:06:23 PM
Leia is awesome in every possible way. She was and is my absolute hero.
My favorite bit is when she strangles Jabba with the chains in ROTJ. Even when saddled with skimpy outfits and having the big hero rescue her, she still manages to come out strongly as a character.
Best. Quote. Ever.
QuoteCarrie Fisher said, "To the father who flipped out about it, 'What am I going to tell my kid about why she's in that outfit?' Tell them that a giant slug captured me and forced me to wear that stupid outfit, and then I killed him because I didn't like it. And then I took it off. Backstage."
Quote from: The Brain on January 04, 2017, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 03:06:23 PM
Leia is awesome in every possible way. She was and is my absolute hero.
Born into privilege. :yes:
And used it to make life better for others. :wub: :wub: :wub:
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 03:59:30 PM
And used it to make life better for others. :wub: :wub: :wub:
Now that you mention it, I'm hard pressed to think of examples from any of the movies that showed how common people had their lives impacted by the changes in regime.
They do very little showing how the regular joes and janes live in that universe.
Well outside of moisture farmers I guess.
Though they certainly show the bad guys continually performing mass genocide.
Blowing up DS2 would have wrecked the Endor moon. Though I guess genocide of ewoks isn't so bad..
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
Blowing up DS2 would have wrecked the Endor moon. Though I guess genocide of ewoks isn't so bad..
Then how did the Ewoks sing yub nub at the end of Jedi then? Huh?
Checkmate MIM.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
Blowing up DS2 would have wrecked the Endor moon. Though I guess genocide of ewoks isn't so bad..
Then how did the Ewoks sing yub nub at the end of Jedi then? Huh?
Checkmate MIM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
Blowing up DS2 would have wrecked the Endor moon. Though I guess genocide of ewoks isn't so bad..
Then how did the Ewoks sing yub nub at the end of Jedi then? Huh?
Checkmate MIM.
Ersatz-Anakin killed that party.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
Blowing up DS2 would have wrecked the Endor moon. Though I guess genocide of ewoks isn't so bad..
Nope, canon (and Legends) says otherwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGvHWACLXuc&t=0s
:P
TL; DW: Rebels used tractor beams and shields to keep debris from landing on Endor. A lot of the remaining debris entered orbit.
In Legends, an explanation was that the exploding hypermatter reactor tore space-time and sucked in most of the debris.
;)
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
Blowing up DS2 would have wrecked the Endor moon. Though I guess genocide of ewoks isn't so bad..
Then how did the Ewoks sing yub nub at the end of Jedi then? Huh?
Checkmate MIM.
They don't sing Yub Nub any longer. :( Now they dance along to some crappy Zamfir master of the pan flute music.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 04:14:08 PM
They do very little showing how the regular joes and janes live in that universe.
Well outside of moisture farmers I guess.
Though they certainly show the bad guys continually performing mass genocide.
There's a scene in one of the prequels where Annikin and Obi-Wan chase someone through a crowded street and then some kind of a bar.
It certainly didn't give the impression that the ordinary folk were very fond of the Jedi. Which makes sense if you think about it.
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2017, 04:55:03 PM
They don't sing Yub Nub any longer. :( Now they dance along to some crappy Zamfir master of the pan flute music.
Yeah, I missed Yub Nub when I rewatched ROTJ the other week with my girlfriend. Stupid George Lucas. :mad:
http://www.iflscience.com/space/death-star-iis-destruction-may-have-doomed-ewoks-say-scientists/
:P
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 05:21:58 PM
http://www.iflscience.com/space/death-star-iis-destruction-may-have-doomed-ewoks-say-scientists/
:P
See link above. Canon and Legends explained it away. :P
Quote from: Syt on January 04, 2017, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 05:21:58 PM
http://www.iflscience.com/space/death-star-iis-destruction-may-have-doomed-ewoks-say-scientists/
:P
See link above. Canon and Legends explained it away. :P
I am amused that scientists even bothered to respond to a magical fantasy story. Star Wars is about characters and story, not plots or consistency with current earth science. Luke was a jedi. He could make the debris disappear through the force of magic.
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 11:12:21 PM
Glad the dad died. Glad they were stuck on the planet at the end. Loved the CGI characters. Glad I went to see it, but not sure I'll see it again in the theater. I'm not a big fan of war movies in general, and this really reminded me of the movies my dad used to watch when I was a kid.
I definitely got the old war movie feel from it as well, at least for the big ending battle.
Kinda like Where Eagles Dare or The Dirty Dozen.
Yeah, I was thinking The Dirty Dozen, myself.
Quote from: grumbler on January 04, 2017, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 04, 2017, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 04, 2017, 05:21:58 PM
http://www.iflscience.com/space/death-star-iis-destruction-may-have-doomed-ewoks-say-scientists/
:P
See link above. Canon and Legends explained it away. :P
I am amused that scientists even bothered to respond to a magical fantasy story. Star Wars is about characters and story, not plots or consistency with current earth science. Luke was a jedi. He could make the debris disappear through the force of magic.
It isn't magic, it's midi-chlorians. It's like a cold, but a good cold.
It's like mitochondria, but you get 'em from your dad. Force Jesus.
Yet another article that overthinks Star Wars for some mild amusement:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-disk-formats-of-star-wars-rogue-one-spoilers
Quote from: celedhring on January 04, 2017, 09:13:06 AM
Regarding Rey and Finn, I think they're saving up the romantic arc for the upcoming Eps, and they just wanted to establish the foundations in TFA. Which probably was the best choice.
Maybe they'll just go with Poe/Finn romantic arc. :D
(https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/01/19/6358878594721610781145319312_tumblr_o09s73Bqn91u6k1bno1_400.gif)
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:41:42 PM
For movies that are telling the story of people lives, rather than just some slice of it, the lack of a romantic interest of some kind would simply be bizarre. Are they eunuchs are something?
How does lack of romantic feelings equate to being an eunuch? Some people are aromantic, you know. Or just are not attracted to whoever they meet.
I smell great.
Quote from: The Brain on January 05, 2017, 06:33:41 AM
I smell great.
You probably smell like weird fish that Scandinavian people seem to love. :uffda:
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2017, 06:37:05 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 05, 2017, 06:33:41 AM
I smell great.
You probably smell like weird fish that Scandinavian people seem to love. :uffda:
Indeed I do. :)
Quote from: Solmyr on January 05, 2017, 06:12:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:41:42 PM
For movies that are telling the story of people lives, rather than just some slice of it, the lack of a romantic interest of some kind would simply be bizarre. Are they eunuchs are something?
How does lack of romantic feelings equate to being an eunuch? Some people are aromantic, you know. Or just are not attracted to whoever they meet.
Or the situation is so intense that romance is the last thing on their mind... like when they're trying to save the world and all that.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 05, 2017, 06:12:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:41:42 PM
For movies that are telling the story of people lives, rather than just some slice of it, the lack of a romantic interest of some kind would simply be bizarre. Are they eunuchs are something?
How does lack of romantic feelings equate to being an eunuch? Some people are aromantic, you know. Or just are not attracted to whoever they meet.
Or the situation is so intense that romance is the last thing on their mind... like when they're trying to save the world and all that.
in the case of Rogue One, I interpreted it as "we're fucked anyway, there's no escape, so let's accept our faith".
Quote from: viper37 on January 05, 2017, 08:55:16 AM
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 05, 2017, 06:12:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:41:42 PM
For movies that are telling the story of people lives, rather than just some slice of it, the lack of a romantic interest of some kind would simply be bizarre. Are they eunuchs are something?
How does lack of romantic feelings equate to being an eunuch? Some people are aromantic, you know. Or just are not attracted to whoever they meet.
Or the situation is so intense that romance is the last thing on their mind... like when they're trying to save the world and all that.
in the case of Rogue One, I interpreted it as "we're fucked anyway, there's no escape, so let's accept our faith".
Exactly.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 05, 2017, 06:12:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:41:42 PM
For movies that are telling the story of people lives, rather than just some slice of it, the lack of a romantic interest of some kind would simply be bizarre. Are they eunuchs are something?
How does lack of romantic feelings equate to being an eunuch? Some people are aromantic, you know. Or just are not attracted to whoever they meet.
Or the situation is so intense that romance is the last thing on their mind... like when they're trying to save the world and all that.
You guys are ignoring what I posted.
Episodes 4-6 and 1-3 both covered literally years of the protagonists lives, and largely from the time they were adolescents into adulthood.
It would be odd if in the span of those stories, the protagonists were never romantically involved or interested in someone else.
Yes, it is entirely possible that they are part of the very small minority population who lacks romantic interest, or that they never meet anyone they are interested in...but that would be unusual, and a story in and of itself.
Romance is part of the human experience for the vast majority of humans. Finding issue with the fact that stories that are in fact about humans growing up and becoming adults including their romantic interests just doesn't make any sense.
Quote from: viper37 on January 05, 2017, 08:55:16 AM
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 05, 2017, 06:12:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 04, 2017, 02:41:42 PM
For movies that are telling the story of people lives, rather than just some slice of it, the lack of a romantic interest of some kind would simply be bizarre. Are they eunuchs are something?
How does lack of romantic feelings equate to being an eunuch? Some people are aromantic, you know. Or just are not attracted to whoever they meet.
Or the situation is so intense that romance is the last thing on their mind... like when they're trying to save the world and all that.
in the case of Rogue One, I interpreted it as "we're fucked anyway, there's no escape, so let's accept our faith".
I was pretty content to let their "googly eyes" not really mean anything particularly discenible to the viewer at all. They are about to die, they know it, and there is one other human being there for them to share their last moments with...what emotions they might be feeling at that moment are pretty damn intense and who knows how they would feel?
I imagine that what they would feel, at the very least, is an intense closeness with that person, especially given the experience they just went through. There could be zero meaningful romantic intent in their "googly eyes" at all, just an intense feeling of closeness and shared emotional intensity.
Or it could be romantic, if you are looking for some romance to be offended by...I guess. Or if you are looking for romance to be inspired by, for that matter.
As a native of Appalachia I am offended by the lack of rednecks in the Star Wars series.
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 10:28:09 AM
As a native of Appalachia I am offended by the lack of rednecks in the Star Wars series.
How is Luke anything but a redneck?
All he wants to do is get away from his uncle's farm and hang out at Toshi Station with his buddies. Plus all the womp rat hunting.
Yeah I was about to say. The series is very moisture farming centric :P
Quote from: Barrister on January 05, 2017, 10:31:34 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 10:28:09 AM
As a native of Appalachia I am offended by the lack of rednecks in the Star Wars series.
How is Luke anything but a redneck?
All he wants to do is get away from his uncle's farm and hang out at Toshi Station with his buddies. Plus all the womp rat hunting.
He wants to fuck his sister, too.
Quote from: Solmyr on January 05, 2017, 06:10:02 AM
Maybe they'll just go with Poe/Finn romantic arc. :D
Sounds good. I will be glad somebody is getting it on. All this celibacy is driving me nuts.
QuoteOr the situation is so intense that romance is the last thing on their mind... like when they're trying to save the world and all that.
Actually in those kinds of situations people form very intense bonds with each other. Not like it matters. Realism should always be trumped by entertainment in the Star Wars universe.
Quote from: Berkut on January 05, 2017, 09:09:12 AM
Or it could be romantic, if you are looking for some romance to be offended by...I guess. Or if you are looking for romance to be inspired by, for that matter.
You're applying offense when none was taken. I said that I didn't like that bit in the movie. I explained why I didn't like that bit in the movie. I thought it was contrived and unnecessary. I'm not
offended by it. I just didn't like it.
Everyone here knows - and agrees - that it isn't difficult to find a movie where the main hero is a guy and he doesn't have a love interest in it. I can name a dozen off the top of my head. As such, I don't understand why it's a big deal for me to say, "Gee, I'd sure like more of those types of movies where the main hero is a woman and she doesn't have a love interest in it." I'm saying that I enjoy those movies, and it would be nice to see more of them. I'm a little annoyed when a movie with the potential to be that is contrived to include a romance that isn't necessary.
Why that bothers you is beyond me.
Women should fix sandwiches in movies and be nekkid.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 10:36:57 AM
Actually in those kinds of situations people form very intense bonds with each other. Not like it matters. Realism should always be trumped by entertainment in the Star Wars universe.
Yeah, and I can assure you that whatever "very intense bonds" I would have in that situation isn't going to involve ripping my shirt off and fucking some guy. No way my head - or anything else - would go in that direction.
Edit: Actually, this may be part of the communication issue right here. It's men who write these things, and they write women as they want them to be, not how we are. In general, that's not really how women are wired. We don't immediately jump to the thought, "Well, we may as well have sex since we're going to die anyway." And this may be why those scenes are so fucking annoying to me, and most other women I know.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 10:36:57 AM
Actually in those kinds of situations people form very intense bonds with each other. Not like it matters. Realism should always be trumped by entertainment in the Star Wars universe.
Yeah, and I can assure you that whatever "very intense bonds" I would have in that situation isn't going to involve ripping my shirt off and fucking some guy. No way my head - or anything else - would go in that direction.
Cool thing that didn't happen in the movie then right?
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:12:03 AM
Yeah, and I can assure you that whatever "very intense bonds" I would have in that situation isn't going to involve ripping my shirt off and fucking some guy. No way my head - or anything else - would go in that direction.
Reality suggests otherwise. STDs broke out in military camps for a reason.
But in any case I was not talking about Star Wars breaking out into a Porno so I don't see the relevance.
QuoteEdit: Actually, this may be part of the communication issue right here. It's men who write these things, and they write women as they want them to be, not how we are. In general, that's not really how women are wired. We don't immediately jump to the thought, "Well, we may as well have sex since we're going to die anyway." And this may be why those scenes are so fucking annoying to me, and most other women I know.
I don't recall the big 'let's fuck' scene between Han and Leia either.
I do not think wanting a little romance in my movies is some kind of sexist stance.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:14:48 AM
Cool thing that didn't happen in the movie then right?
I'm sorry. Are generalities too difficult for you?
I'm grateful that didn't happen in this movie. It would have been utterly ridiculous, and thankfully, someone realized that.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
Reality suggests otherwise. STDs broke out in military camps for a reason.
But in any case I was not talking about Star Wars breaking out into a Porno so I don't see the relevance.
STDs broke out in military camps for all of history for the simple reason that armies had food and warm blankets, and women had something armies wanted. You don't actually think those women were looking for love, do you? They were looking to eat and stay warm, and sex was a relatively simple currency. If love happened, bonus, but it wasn't the goal.
Women are whores, film at 11.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:18:15 AM
STDs broke out in military camps for all of history for the simple reason that armies had food and warm blankets, and women had something armies wanted. You don't actually think those women were looking for love, do you? They were looking to eat and stay warm, and sex was a relatively simple currency. If love happened, bonus, but it wasn't the goal.
Armies actually really struggled with those things. To be a soldier is to suffer.
Ah. I figured the dudes were doing each other as well. Spartan-like.
EWWWWWWWWW
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:14:48 AM
Cool thing that didn't happen in the movie then right?
I'm sorry. Are generalities too difficult for you?
I'm grateful that didn't happen in this movie. It would have been utterly ridiculous, and thankfully, someone realized that.
To summarize:
I think you have a different interpretation of that scene on the beach than most people.
I didn't see googly eyes. I saw holy shit we're going to die, fellow human I just shared some intense shit with for a few weeks. Wanna hold hands because we're both kinda shit scared? Ok cool.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:16:23 AM
I'm grateful that didn't happen in this movie. It would have been utterly ridiculous, and thankfully, someone realized that.
It would have been delightful :angry:
Curse your black heart Meri.
Anyway my whole point in bringing this up was NOT to get into a discussion about whether it was good or bad or whatever but I was just speculating why Disney made this decision in both of their films. In the sense that they seemed to set them up and then intentionally left them hanging. I was just wondering what they were going for. I guess we will see if this trend continues.
FWIW the beach scene wasn't in the original script, it was added during the reshoots. That's one of the reasons there's no romance arc that leads up to it.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:18:15 AM
STDs broke out in military camps for all of history for the simple reason that armies had food and warm blankets, and women had something armies wanted. You don't actually think those women were looking for love, do you? They were looking to eat and stay warm, and sex was a relatively simple currency. If love happened, bonus, but it wasn't the goal.
Armies actually really struggled with those things. To be a soldier is to suffer.
Ah. I figured the dudes were doing each other as well. Spartan-like.
And they still had more than the average peasant on whose lands they were marching.
And since guys think like that, it makes sense that they would do each other, too. ;)
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:32:14 AM
FWIW the beach scene wasn't in the original script, it was added during the reshoots. That's one of the reasons there's no romance arc that leads up to it.
Ah. See I thought there was. I thought there was tension leading up to it. Especially in the scenes on the tropical paradise planet.
Yeah they originally were going to be chopped up by Darth Vader. I kind of like the doomed on the planet ending better rather then them escaping just to be nabbed at the end, regardless of the romance stuff. Their escapes had been pretty inexplicable up to that point as it was.
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:32:14 AM
FWIW the beach scene wasn't in the original script, it was added during the reshoots. That's one of the reasons there's no romance arc that leads up to it.
Oh yeah! I was really surprised at what seems to be a total change in the direction of the ending compared to what the promos showed. It looks like they completely changed things around at the end. I wonder why.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:38:53 AM
And since guys think like that, it makes sense that they would do each other, too. ;)
We are not so different you and I.
Or maybe not.
Or maybe we are.
I keep getting told 'it is completely sexist to think women and men feel differently about sex' or 'it is completely sexist to think women and men feel the same about sex' so I am afraid I have no opinion on this subject.
However last I checked there are some women who do like a good romance without demanding scientific realism in all their films. So I DO NOT STAND ALONE.
Actually I sort of hoped tons of Imperial Troops would pour in and shoot them down right as they send the transmission. Sort of like Blues Brothers.
They were on a mission from God The Force.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
I don't recall the big 'let's fuck' scene between Han and Leia either.
It's ain Star Wars A XXX Parody. Includes Luke, too. There's a non-sex edit out there; it's half decent parody.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:41:47 AM
We are not so different you and I.
Or maybe not.
Or maybe we are.
I keep getting told 'it is completely sexist to think women and men feel differently about sex' or 'it is completely sexist to think women and men feel the same about sex' so I am afraid I have no opinion on this subject.
That was mostly a joke. :P
I think it's impossible to say that all men or all women are anything. I will say that my friends and I have had lots of conversations about women in action movies and how we think we'd react in certain scenarios. Most of us are pretty much of the mind that sex wouldn't be the first thing we think of during those moments. (One friend is the exception, but then all she thinks about is sex, so it's a given with her. :D )
Quote
However last I checked there are some women who do like a good romance without demanding scientific realism in all their films. So I DO NOT STAND ALONE.
I enjoy a good romance as much as the next person. That doesn't mean that I feel a need for it in every movie I watch. And that doesn't mean that I feel like it's a given that there should be one.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:51:21 AM
That was mostly a joke. :P
I think it's impossible to say that all men or all women are anything. I will say that my friends and I have had lots of conversations about women in action movies and how we think we'd react in certain scenarios. Most of us are pretty much of the mind that sex wouldn't be the first thing we think of during those moments. (One friend is the exception, but then all she thinks about is sex, so it's a given with her. :D )
Yes I was mostly joking as well :)
She sounds delightful :P
I have no idea how I would respond in such a high stress situation personally. Or in a high stress situation surrounded by people as good looking as those typically in action movies.
Quote
I enjoy a good romance as much as the next person. That doesn't mean that I feel a need for it in every movie I watch. And that doesn't mean that I feel like it's a given that there should be one.
I don't either (well mostly). And I get that.
Though I found both Bilbo's and Frodo's weird sexless lives bizarre (as written, the films suggest Frodo might really be into somebody). But I figured it was some kind of British thing.
However in the two particular films in question I felt set up to root for a certain couple and then they intentionally didn't follow through. I found that weird. But maybe it was just me.
Quote from: Syt on January 05, 2017, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
I don't recall the big 'let's fuck' scene between Han and Leia either.
It's ain Star Wars A XXX Parody. Includes Luke, too. There's a non-sex edit out there; it's half decent parody.
Well of course it is. Wait. Who provides the sex scenes on the Imperial side? I might have to check this out.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 05, 2017, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
I don't recall the big 'let's fuck' scene between Han and Leia either.
It's ain Star Wars A XXX Parody. Includes Luke, too. There's a non-sex edit out there; it's half decent parody.
Well of course it is. Wait. Who provides the sex scenes on the Imperial side? I might have to check this out.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2059288/
Tom Byron as Obi-Wan was rather hilarious.
Luke Skywalker: How did my father die?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was a pupil of mine until I cut his arms and legs off and left him burning in a river of lava ...
Luke Skywalker: I-I think I want to go home now.
Quote from: Syt on January 05, 2017, 12:02:58 PM
Luke Skywalker: How did my father die?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was a pupil of mine until I cut his arms and legs off and left him burning in a river of lava ...
Luke Skywalker: I-I think I want to go home now.
:lol:
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 12:05:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 05, 2017, 12:02:58 PM
Luke Skywalker: How did my father die?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was a pupil of mine until I cut his arms and legs off and left him burning in a river of lava ...
Luke Skywalker: I-I think I want to go home now.
:lol:
He actually does a good impression of the voice, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiKPjPLPLh4 (SFW)
Quote from: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:22:13 AM
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:14:48 AM
Cool thing that didn't happen in the movie then right?
I'm sorry. Are generalities too difficult for you?
I'm grateful that didn't happen in this movie. It would have been utterly ridiculous, and thankfully, someone realized that.
To summarize:
I think you have a different interpretation of that scene on the beach than most people.
I didn't see googly eyes. I saw holy shit we're going to die, fellow human I just shared some intense shit with for a few weeks. Wanna hold hands because we're both kinda shit scared? Ok cool.
That's nice but I agree with Meri. Movie kept giving them significant looks. I'm fine though as they died so we were spared any actual romancing.
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 02:09:29 PM
Movie kept giving them significant looks.
You think so? Ok. But why do you think the movie did that?
Yes I am determined to actually have the conversation I wanted to have with somebody :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 02:14:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 02:09:29 PM
Movie kept giving them significant looks.
You think so? Ok. But why do you think the movie did that?
Yes I am determined to actually have the conversation I wanted to have with somebody :lol:
Yes and because a romance subplot even when not actually acted on is pretty common thing to do in films/tv. Like say Benson and Stabler in SVU.
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 02:17:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 02:14:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 02:09:29 PM
Movie kept giving them significant looks.
You think so? Ok. But why do you think the movie did that?
Yes I am determined to actually have the conversation I wanted to have with somebody :lol:
Yes and because a romance subplot even when not actually acted on is pretty common thing to do in films/tv. Like say Benson and Stabler in SVU.
TV, yes because they will they/won't they dynamic can drive ratings. There is no similar motivation to do that in film. And even if they wanted to drive that dynamic here the characters are dead :P
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 02:21:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 02:17:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 02:14:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 02:09:29 PM
Movie kept giving them significant looks.
You think so? Ok. But why do you think the movie did that?
Yes I am determined to actually have the conversation I wanted to have with somebody :lol:
Yes and because a romance subplot even when not actually acted on is pretty common thing to do in films/tv. Like say Benson and Stabler in SVU.
TV, yes because they will they/won't they dynamic can drive ratings. There is no similar motivation to do that in film. And even if they wanted to drive that dynamic here the characters are dead :P
I mean if your stance is that it doesn't happen in film then I'm not sure what you want to discuss. :hmm:
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 02:22:31 PM
I mean if your stance is that it doesn't happen in film then I'm not sure what you want to discuss. :hmm:
This is the second consecutive Star Wars film where they have the fake out romance thing. I was curious as to why they were doing this. If it was intentional and meant to communicate something in some way. In both cases they seem to work to get you to expect a romance between two characters and intentionally do not do it. I do not think that is common, even in the TV dynamic they eventually get the characters together in the series finale or something.
That was what I was wanting to discuss. Or at least hear some thoughts on it because I am just kind of confused.
Valmy, I honestly think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
TFA: the romantic tensions are set up to be developed in later films. You don't blow your wad in the first installment.
Rogue One: the scene was added in reshoots so that's the reason the "romance" is just insinuated, it wasn't present in the shooting script. There's no grander plan behind it.
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 02:30:04 PM
Rogue One: the scene was added in reshoots so that's the reason the "romance" is just insinuated, it wasn't present in the shooting script. There's no grander plan behind it.
But there are people who saw this developing throughout the movie, and the whole movie was not reshot. i don't think you can dismiss this as a figment of three or more peoples' imaginations.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 02:14:59 PM
You think so? Ok. But why do you think the movie did that?
Yes I am determined to actually have the conversation I wanted to have with somebody :lol:
I think it's a tacked on, "Oh shit! We forgot to have them attracted to each other! Retake those beach scenes! No, MORE longing!" :D
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 02:30:04 PM
Valmy, I honestly think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
TFA: the romantic tensions are set up to be developed in later films. You don't blow your wad in the first installment.
Rogue One: the scene was added in reshoots so that's the reason the "romance" is just insinuated, it wasn't present in the shooting script. There's no grander plan behind it.
I kind of always felt like the romantic tensions in TFA were pretty one-sided on Finn's side. And it was so awkward as to be like a 14-year-old boy with his first crush and not knowing how to act on it. Which actually worked for me, really. His background and childhood was so messed up that that fit. He felt emotions for her, didn't know how to classify them or how to act on them. It made him a little more endearing to me. Where they take it, though, is what will decide it for me.(And I admit that I'm reading a LOT into that whole situation, but Finn really reminded me of my boys when they were young.)
On Rogue One, however, it felt more forced. Like, well, there's a man and a woman in intense situations, so we have to have some kind of emotional connection/sexual tension scene so that women will enjoy the movie. How can we do this?
Quote from: grumbler on January 05, 2017, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 02:30:04 PM
Rogue One: the scene was added in reshoots so that's the reason the "romance" is just insinuated, it wasn't present in the shooting script. There's no grander plan behind it.
But there are people who saw this developing throughout the movie, and the whole movie was not reshot. i don't think you can dismiss this as a figment of three or more peoples' imaginations.
Do you think so? I didn't really see any sexual tension until the end, but I wasn't really looking for it, either.
Quote from: grumbler on January 05, 2017, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 02:30:04 PM
Rogue One: the scene was added in reshoots so that's the reason the "romance" is just insinuated, it wasn't present in the shooting script. There's no grander plan behind it.
But there are people who saw this developing throughout the movie, and the whole movie was not reshot. i don't think you can dismiss this as a figment of three or more peoples' imaginations.
Actually, I can. Kuleshov effect.
Plus I'm sure they may have added a moment here and there, even though I personally didn't notice anything developing. The whole movie wasn't reshot, but the beach scene wasn't the only thing they reshot either.
JAYSUS IS REAL
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 02:53:29 PM
I think it's a tacked on, "Oh shit! We forgot to have them attracted to each other! Retake those beach scenes! No, MORE longing!" :D
Well that's lame. They didn't need to do that just to hold hands and hug.
Hell if we were about to die I would even hold hands and hug Legbiter, even if he would crush me to death with his alpha-male strength in the process.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 05, 2017, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 02:30:04 PM
Rogue One: the scene was added in reshoots so that's the reason the "romance" is just insinuated, it wasn't present in the shooting script. There's no grander plan behind it.
But there are people who saw this developing throughout the movie, and the whole movie was not reshot. i don't think you can dismiss this as a figment of three or more peoples' imaginations.
Do you think so? I didn't really see any sexual tension until the end, but I wasn't really looking for it, either.
I felt so with some of the looks from Cassian. I assumed though that G was poking fun with the 'three or more'
Looking at google with 'romance rogue one' seems a big split on those saying no romance, hurrah feminism and those saying oh my look at that romantic couple, will they won't they, oh they didn't.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 03:14:55 PM
Hell if we were about to die I would even hold hands and hug Legbiter, even if he would crush me to death with his alpha-male strength in the process.
I definitely wouldn't. I wouldn't want to touch most of you. :x
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 03:05:47 PM
even though I personally didn't notice anything developing.
Garbon saw it to!
QuoteValmy, I honestly think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Well it turned out that way :lol:
I just thought it was strange enough to try to get people's opinions on the topic of what they were going for. But it seems we cannot even agree on the premise. Ah well.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 03:14:55 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 02:53:29 PM
I think it's a tacked on, "Oh shit! We forgot to have them attracted to each other! Retake those beach scenes! No, MORE longing!" :D
Well that's lame. They didn't need to do that just to hold hands and hug.
I have written reshoots for stuff, and yeah that's the kind of very lame thing we are asked to do ("giev me more emotion!!!1111!"). There's so much you can do when you're trying to fit new pieces in an already constructed puzzle.
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 03:15:16 PM
no romance, hurrah feminism
This is also an angle I was not aware of. So I will keep that in mind in the future.
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 03:15:16 PM
no romance, hurrah feminism
This is also an angle I was not aware of. So I will keep that in mind in the future.
So women portrayed as having romantic emotions is now a weapon of the patriarchy?
Quote from: Tamas on January 05, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2017, 03:15:16 PM
no romance, hurrah feminism
This is also an angle I was not aware of. So I will keep that in mind in the future.
So women portrayed as having romantic emotions is now a weapon of the patriarchy?
Not necessarily. But rather that no romance is now something that is applauded for social issue type reasons. That had not occurred to me.
No-romance should be applauded for non-lazy storytelling reasons, though. It's such an abused crutch.
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
No-romance should be applauded for non-lazy storytelling reasons, though. It's such an abused crutch.
I am sure there are many reasons to have no romance for you black hearted bastards. That is just one I had not previously considered. :P
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
No-romance should be applauded for non-lazy storytelling reasons, though. It's such an abused crutch.
I can live with that as long as there are still plenty of hotties not romancing.
Yeah, I guess it is just my male blindness, but I had no idea that romance period was an indicator in some fashion of misogyny.
I can certainly understand the complaint that women are often portrayed as not having a purpose other than romance. But I don't get the idea that a strong female lead who seems pretty laudable in every way is diminished in any way if she is *also* romantic in some otherwise appropriate fashion.
I've always really enjoyed movies that don't have bolted on romance.
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 05, 2017, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 02:30:04 PM
Rogue One: the scene was added in reshoots so that's the reason the "romance" is just insinuated, it wasn't present in the shooting script. There's no grander plan behind it.
But there are people who saw this developing throughout the movie, and the whole movie was not reshot. i don't think you can dismiss this as a figment of three or more peoples' imaginations.
Actually, I can. Kuleshov effect.
Plus I'm sure they may have added a moment here and there, even though I personally didn't notice anything developing. The whole movie wasn't reshot, but the beach scene wasn't the only thing they reshot either.
Damn you and your professional knowledge!
Quote from: The Brain on January 05, 2017, 04:31:14 PM
I've always really enjoyed movies that don't have bolted on romance.
Bolted-on romance, clearly added because someone was concerned that the movie or shoe might miss a buck if they didn't add some romance, sucks. Well-done romance, especially romance that puts a heart at war with itself, can add an enormous amount of depth and tension to a story without taking much time.
You could have done
A Fish Called Wanda without JLC and Cleese falling in love, but it wouldn't have been as fun. OTOH, the "romance" bit of
Midway was a total drag on the movie and ended up being meaningless.
Meri reminds me of the kid from The Princess Bride.
Quote from: grumbler on January 05, 2017, 05:10:37 PM
Bolted-on romance, clearly added because someone was concerned that the movie or shoe might miss a buck if they didn't add some romance, sucks. Well-done romance, especially romance that puts a heart at war with itself, can add an enormous amount of depth and tension to a story without taking much time.
You could have done A Fish Called Wanda without JLC and Cleese falling in love, but it wouldn't have been as fun. OTOH, the "romance" bit of Midway was a total drag on the movie and ended up being meaningless.
This. 100 times this.
When the story calls for it because it makes the story better, then I enjoy seeing it. But when there's a romance just because there is a man and a woman in the movie, but it doesn't actually benefit the story at all, I don't see the point. I feel like it's lazy, just like celedhring says.
Quote from: Berkut on January 05, 2017, 04:30:32 PM
Yeah, I guess it is just my male blindness, but I had no idea that romance period was an indicator in some fashion of misogyny.
I can certainly understand the complaint that women are often portrayed as not having a purpose other than romance. But I don't get the idea that a strong female lead who seems pretty laudable in every way is diminished in any way if she is *also* romantic in some otherwise appropriate fashion.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that sometimes we just want to see a woman kick ass without having a man in the picture? I didn't call it misogyny. I said, "Sometimes I just want to see a woman kick ass without having any romantic interest, and I rarely get to see those." It's that simple. Really.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 11:40:26 AM
Oh yeah! I was really surprised at what seems to be a total change in the direction of the ending compared to what the promos showed. It looks like they completely changed things around at the end. I wonder why.
test audience didn't react well to the ending, or studio marketing specialists simply didn't like it.
Quote from: merithyn on January 05, 2017, 05:58:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 05, 2017, 05:10:37 PM
Bolted-on romance, clearly added because someone was concerned that the movie or shoe might miss a buck if they didn't add some romance, sucks. Well-done romance, especially romance that puts a heart at war with itself, can add an enormous amount of depth and tension to a story without taking much time.
You could have done A Fish Called Wanda without JLC and Cleese falling in love, but it wouldn't have been as fun. OTOH, the "romance" bit of Midway was a total drag on the movie and ended up being meaningless.
This. 100 times this.
When the story calls for it because it makes the story better, then I enjoy seeing it. But when there's a romance just because there is a man and a woman in the movie, but it doesn't actually benefit the story at all, I don't see the point. I feel like it's lazy, just like celedhring says.
Quote from: Berkut on January 05, 2017, 04:30:32 PM
Yeah, I guess it is just my male blindness, but I had no idea that romance period was an indicator in some fashion of misogyny.
I can certainly understand the complaint that women are often portrayed as not having a purpose other than romance. But I don't get the idea that a strong female lead who seems pretty laudable in every way is diminished in any way if she is *also* romantic in some otherwise appropriate fashion.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that sometimes we just want to see a woman kick ass without having a man in the picture? I didn't call it misogyny. I said, "Sometimes I just want to see a woman kick ass without having any romantic interest, and I rarely get to see those." It's that simple. Really.
Surely, but JJ Abrams did it so poorly it was actually insulting.
BTW, IMO the best female action lead was Sigorney Weaver in Alien & Aliens.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 05, 2017, 10:00:46 PM
BTW, IMO the best female action lead was Sigorney Weaver in Alien & Aliens.
I liked the illegal chick with the maching gun.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 10:02:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 05, 2017, 10:00:46 PM
BTW, IMO the best female action lead was Sigorney Weaver in Alien & Aliens.
I liked the illegal chick with the maching gun.
Hip, but not a lead.
SHE WAS A LEAD IN MY HEART
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Indeed. Movies are so much better when people are unrelateable, sexless aliens. See, for example, the Star Wars prequels.
Who the fuck are you?
Quote from: Neil on January 06, 2017, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 10:59:56 PM
Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".
Indeed. Movies are so much better when people are unrelateable, sexless aliens. See, for example, the Star Wars prequels.
Sure, being in a high emotion situation like saving the world could lead to a drastically increased chance of a man and a woman who have just met getting together than under normal circumstances.
But it really isn't the sure thing it is presented as in movies.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jan/06/star-wars-braintrust-to-plot-life-in-leia-less-universe-after-carrie-fishers-death
QuoteStar Wars insiders to plot life in Leia-less universe after Carrie Fisher's death
The repercussions of the death of Carrie Fisher for the Star Wars franchise are to be discussed by key Disney staff in Los Angeles next week. Fisher, who died on 27 December, had completed scenes on Star Wars: Episode VIII, which is set for release in December – including, apparently, reunions with Mark Hamill's Luke Skywalker and her son, Kylo Ren, played by Adam Driver.
But the character will reportedly play an even larger part in the following film, which is scheduled to shoot early in 2018 before release at Christmas 2019. This supposition would tally with the $50m insurance payout that Disney will collect following Fisher's death.
The Hollywood Reporter paraphrases insiders who says Episode IX's writer/director, Colin Trevorrow, is to meet with executive producer Kathleen Kennedy to see what adjustments to the script are required. This may in turn mean reshoots on director Rian Johnson's Star Wars: Episode VIII, to adjust its conclusion.
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The studio is said to be less wary of the risks of extensive post-production adjustments following the healthy reception for Rogue One, of which up to a reported 40% was reshot. Another key element of that film – the CGI resurrection of Peter Cushing's character and, in a final scene, Fisher's – may also play a part in papering over the plot.
But both the ethics and logistics of such a move are said to be capping the extent of CGI that Disney would tolerate: incidental moments are thought to be acceptable, but having a computer-generated version of Fisher simply speak the lines designed for her in Episode IX is thought to be unlikely.
Fisher and her mother, Debbie Reynolds, were buried in a private, joint service in Los Angeles on 6 January. Earlier this week, a petition was launched on Change.org to lobby Disney to make Leia an "official" Disney princess. It so far has more than 53,000 signatures.
An interesting thing about Jedha and it being a center for religions that worship the Force.
Among them there's the Brotherhood of the Beatific Countenance:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2F2%2F21%2FLorrdian_pilgrims.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20170101030343&hash=da7d510f8ea61eb487b5446e357ebe5f2c840947)
And you have the Disciples of the Whills:
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/MwagI.png)
Which means that Imperial Guards would probably not stand out much in a crowd in Jedha. :P
(https://media.archonia.com/images/samples/61/73/136173_s1.jpg)
Though that's probably just a coincidence.
When I saw them in the movie, I thought the crimson-robed dudes looked way too similar to the Imperial Guard for it being a coincidence. Although it made no sense in that context.
I'm half expecting that there's some ancient Sith connection there.
Well it says they use a vocoder so I'm guessing Kraftwerk?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 11:38:30 AM
Well it says they use a vocoder so I'm guessing Kraftwerk?
Throat cancer
So if the shield on Scarif allows visible light to pass, how does it stop laser beams? :unsure:
Having worked on buildings without architectural drawings; I can say with certainty that Tarkin's decision to destroy the entire Imperial architectural archive was a really, really bad idea.
Imperial Officer: We need to mount a holographic projector in this room.
Contractor: Sure thing, boss, where are the conduits to run the coax?
Imperial Officer: No idea...
Quote from: Savonarola on January 11, 2017, 03:57:14 PM
So if the shield on Scarif allows visible light to pass, how does it stop laser beams? :unsure:
Maybe it stops the excess energy of laser only? How do shields work on Star Wars? you can always see the ship, therefore light goes through, yet, it stops laser.
Or maybe, the word "turbolaser" does not really describe a laser, kinda like star trek's phasers?
Quote
Having worked on buildings without architectural drawings; I can say with certainty that Tarkin's decision to destroy the entire Imperial architectural archive was a really, really bad idea.
Imperial Officer: We need to mount a holographic projector in this room.
Contractor: Sure thing, boss, where are the conduits to run the coax?
Imperial Officer: No idea...
they likely have another archive on Coruscant. Or this one was simply the backup, with all original plans being kept locally. Wasn't the Death Star plan located on the planet where the scientist was and only because it got half destroyed/locked-down did the Rebels go to that other planet?
Quote from: viper37 on January 12, 2017, 01:46:34 AM
Or maybe, the word "turbolaser" does not really describe a laser, kinda like star trek's phasers?
It's not a laser, but a burst of burning plasma. The laser ignites the gas and it shoots out.
Quote from: Savonarola on January 11, 2017, 03:57:14 PM
So if the shield on Scarif allows visible light to pass, how does it stop laser beams? :unsure:
In the same manner every device describe as a "shield" in every science fiction movie or book ever stops attacks while letting light through.
This isn't even that hard to imagine - shields are tuned to allow low-energy/low-concentrations of photons through, while blocking higher concentrations.
I find the docking bay shields more interesting that allow ships to pass through but keep air inside.
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2017, 09:27:59 AM
I find the docking bay shields more interesting that allow ships to pass through but keep air inside.
Again, I don't see that as remotely implausible. Assuming the shield can be tuned in some fashion, it would be easy to have whatever computer controlling it simply evaluate the threat profile of a ship moving at slow speed and powering down the shield, or a part of the shield, to let that object through.
One of the first rules of space opera is that it only works as long as you don't think too hard about it.
Quote from: celedhring on January 12, 2017, 09:39:24 AM
One of the first rules of space opera is that it only works as long as you don't think too hard about it.
Meh, I think it is more "It works until you think hard enough to invent a reason why it doesn't".
There is a basic suspension of disbelief that goes along with all fantasy and science fiction. The legit gripe is when the writers violate their own rules, not when the watcher constructs some "problem" that requires them to make assumptions about rules that haven't even been introduced.
I think we are saying essentially the same. Most of the technology in Star Wars doesn't make any sense if you pry on it, but those liberties are there because they help make the films more fun. I.e. AT-ATs are the most idiotic ground vehicle ever, but god damn ESB would be a lesser film if the Empire employed some boring tank. And don't get me started if space battles had no noise in them.
Midi-chlorians explain everything Star Wars to me in a scientifically satisfactory manner. I'm happy that George Lucas put them in there. As a scientist science in space opera is critically important to me. :)
Quote from: The Brain on January 12, 2017, 12:46:43 PM
Midi-chlorians explain everything Star Wars to me in a scientifically satisfactory manner. I'm happy that George Lucas put them in there. As a scientist science in space opera is critically important to me. :)
What's a scientist science and how does one become that?
Comas aren't very fun. I don't blame him for skipping it.
Why is garbon uppity? :(
I take midi-chlorians as non literal canon.
That yes. People in universe think that this is how the force works.
But that says more about the republic than anything - they believed that they stood supreme over the galaxy and had a full understanding of the laws of science. As that's what the force had to be. Science. Their world view just couldn't accept that there existed magic outside or their control or understanding.
Everyone locking into this anti faith view is what ultimately doomed the jedi.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 13, 2017, 02:15:35 AM
Comas aren't very fun. I don't blame him for skipping it.
Have you ever been in one?
Yeah, for several days.
:(
I find the attempt to provide 'scientific" explanations for the powers and events in Star Wars highly puzzling. The series doesn't attempt to be scientific - it is a fantasy set in the world of starships, and was never intended to be taken as hard science fiction. Things work the way they do because that's what the plot required, and because magic is cheaper to shoot than than science. It's science works just fine within its own universe, and cannot be removed from that universe into ours without falling apart.
Quote from: grumbler on January 13, 2017, 07:42:53 AM
I find the attempt to provide 'scientific" explanations for the powers and events in Star Wars highly puzzling. The series doesn't attempt to be scientific - it is a fantasy set in the world of starships, and was never intended to be taken as hard science fiction. Things work the way they do because that's what the plot required, and because magic is cheaper to shoot than than science. It's science works just fine within its own universe, and cannot be removed from that universe into ours without falling apart.
Pistols at dawn, sir! :angry:
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2017, 08:31:30 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 13, 2017, 07:42:53 AM
I find the attempt to provide 'scientific" explanations for the powers and events in Star Wars highly puzzling. The series doesn't attempt to be scientific - it is a fantasy set in the world of starships, and was never intended to be taken as hard science fiction. Things work the way they do because that's what the plot required, and because magic is cheaper to shoot than than science. It's science works just fine within its own universe, and cannot be removed from that universe into ours without falling apart.
Pistols at dawn, sir! :angry:
Midday might be better. That's a less antisocial hour.
there's no way to be entirely sure but it seems there's a cockpit of a YT-2000 in one of the shots the first time you see Yavin. Upper left iirc.
I finally saw it! ...and I finally read this thread! I loved seeing the rebel pilots from A New Hope show up. I thought it was an awesome touch. The killing of Red 5, making the call sign open for Luke at Yavin was a nice easter egg.
So another indicator of (I hope) the rewrite and not lazy script writing was the magical appearance of the Imperial shuttle piloted by the two characters who stayed with the broken down old ship on Pops Urso's work planet. They appear out of nowhere with a shuttle to rescue everyone, yet apparently the shuttle pilot defetor didn't have to kill anyone to get it, because KT-SO only proclaims him a "real rebel" after he guns down some Imperials from the newly acquired shuttle. They even make a point of discussing how it's an Imperial shuttle and using it as a plot device for access to the final planet. Also, the random additions of mentioning Captain Antilles by Bail Organa as his pilot when they head to nab Leia is interesting, but how does Bail go with Antilles to Alderaan, switch spots with Leia, allow Leia to return to Yavin to pick up R2 and 3PO who are shown there after Bail leaves, then have Leia rally with the fleet in time to end up docked inside the Rebel Flagship before the battle of Scarif? Those are two of the things that stuck out that haven't been mentioned yet. I'll try to think of some more.
Yeah. Leia being in a little ship with the rebels was kind of lame.
Should have been an escaping rebel ship hooking up with hers to pass on the plans.
I see why they did it this way. Wanted to show the end of this movie as the exact beginning of the first film. Cuts down unnecessary padding.
But still... Makes Leia screaming about being a diplomatic ship just look dumb.
Why was she even in the battle?
Quote from: Tyr on January 20, 2017, 05:09:36 AM
Yeah. Leia being in a little ship with the rebels was kind of lame.
Should have been an escaping rebel ship hooking up with hers to pass on the plans.
I see why they did it this way. Wanted to show the end of this movie as the exact beginning of the first film. Cuts down unnecessary padding.
But still... Makes Leia screaming about being a diplomatic ship just look dumb.
Why was she even in the battle?
Yeah. The dialogue from A New Hope makes a lot less sense when you consider everyone saw the Tantive IV jet away from Scarif.
Stormtrooper: [to Vader] The Death Star plans are not in the main computer.
Darth Vader: [to Rebel] Where are those transmissions you intercepted? What have you done with those plans?
Rebel Officer: [gasping for breath] We intercepted no transmissions. This is a consular ship. We're on a diplomatic mission...
Darth Vader: If this is a consular ship, where is the Ambassador? [crushes the officer's neck, then throws him against the wall] Commander, tear this ship apart until you've found those plans, and bring me the passengers. I want them alive!
Why does it not make sense? That the Rebels made an attempt of lying their way out of certain death?
Not to mention, they're in a different star system when they're caught.
Quote from: Tamas on January 20, 2017, 05:18:31 AM
Why does it not make sense? That the Rebels made an attempt of lying their way out of certain death?
Less the rebels lying, which is sensible, and more darth talking about intercepted plans. He saw the plans on a disk being passed into this ship.
You're right, it was more of a forced fumble than an interception.
Quote from: Tyr on January 20, 2017, 07:16:14 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 20, 2017, 05:18:31 AM
Why does it not make sense? That the Rebels made an attempt of lying their way out of certain death?
Less the rebels lying, which is sensible, and more darth talking about intercepted plans. He saw the plans on a disk being passed into this ship.
That's just nitpicking that's easy to counter: the plans were transmitted out of an imperial radio tower, and were intercepted, and recorded by the attacking Rebel units. There!