QuoteJewish groups decry Black Lives Matter platform's view on Israel
By Julie Zauzmer August 5
Dozens of Black Lives Matter organizations jointly released a wide-ranging platform Monday spelling out standpoints on dozens of issues.
On almost all of the issues — including education, food insecurity, criminal sentencing and policing — progressive Jewish groups heartily agree. But the new platform's stance on Israel has angered major Jewish organizations.
The platform calls for an end to U.S. federal aid for Israel. By providing aid, the platform argues, the United States is "complicit in the genocide taking place against the Palestinian people." Criticizing the construction of Israeli settlements in Palestinian areas and the arrest of young Palestinians, it describes Israel as "an apartheid state."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/08/05/jewish-groups-decry-black-lives-matter-platforms-view-on-israel/?tid=a_inl
Who would have thought a racial supremacist organisation would also be antisemitic? :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 12:37:33 AM
Who would have thought a racial supremacist organisation would also be antisemitic? :hmm:
I for one am shocked, shocked!
These threads of forced angst sure are tiring.
Black lives matter is a racial supremacist group?
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 02:52:21 AM
Black lives matter is a racial supremacist group?
Their demands include free college education and minimum guaranteed income (not wage!) for all black people, special subsidies for businesses owned by blacks, special funding for majority-black universities, etc. That's pretty racist/racial supremacist to me. In fact the only country I can think of with similar law-enshrined discriminatory treatment based on race is apartheid South Africa.
Is being more Jewish than CDM your new shtick? :P
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 02:57:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 02:52:21 AM
Black lives matter is a racial supremacist group?
Their demands include free college education and minimum guaranteed income (not wage!) for all black people, special subsidies for businesses owned by blacks, special funding for majority-black universities, etc. That's pretty racist/racial supremacist to me. In fact the only country I can think of with similar law-enshrined discriminatory treatment based on race is apartheid South Africa.
Don't you know he's rather impressionable and will take to heart what you say? Shame on you.
Marty is tainting Jews now. :(
Quote from: Solmyr on September 26, 2016, 04:26:49 AM
Marty is tainting Jews now. :(
Nah, he's not into butt stuff.
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 02:57:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 02:52:21 AM
Black lives matter is a racial supremacist group?
Their demands include free college education and minimum guaranteed income (not wage!) for all black people, special subsidies for businesses owned by blacks, special funding for majority-black universities, etc. That's pretty racist/racial supremacist to me. In fact the only country I can think of with similar law-enshrined discriminatory treatment based on race is apartheid South Africa.
....All I've seen from them is stop shooting black people for no reason.
Didn't even realise it was a centralised political party.
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
For you, that may be true. Some of the rest of us see that the BLM movement is bogging itself down in nonsense politics, which discredits their original and legitimate message and greatly reduces their moral high ground. it's not the first mass movement to be taken over by egotists pushing personal agendas, and won't be the last, but it s sad to see it happening.
Oh, yes. I am sure some of the rest of you hold all sorts of funky ideas.
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:45:34 AM
Oh, yes. I am sure some of the rest of you hold all sorts of funky ideas.
And I am sure that you are far more in tune with the mindset of white supremacists than most of us.
It may be true. I read writings of slaveholders every day after all.
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 05:36:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 02:57:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 02:52:21 AM
Black lives matter is a racial supremacist group?
Their demands include free college education and minimum guaranteed income (not wage!) for all black people, special subsidies for businesses owned by blacks, special funding for majority-black universities, etc. That's pretty racist/racial supremacist to me. In fact the only country I can think of with similar law-enshrined discriminatory treatment based on race is apartheid South Africa.
....All I've seen from them is stop shooting black people for no reason.
Didn't even realise it was a centralised political party.
They have announced a platform. You could know that if you read the article I posted in the first post. :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 08:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 05:36:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 02:57:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 02:52:21 AM
Black lives matter is a racial supremacist group?
Their demands include free college education and minimum guaranteed income (not wage!) for all black people, special subsidies for businesses owned by blacks, special funding for majority-black universities, etc. That's pretty racist/racial supremacist to me. In fact the only country I can think of with similar law-enshrined discriminatory treatment based on race is apartheid South Africa.
....All I've seen from them is stop shooting black people for no reason.
Didn't even realise it was a centralised political party.
They have announced a platform. You could know that if you read the article I posted in the first post. :huh:
Can't. Washington Post has a limit on the number of articles you can read each month.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 26, 2016, 08:22:35 AM
Can't. Washington Post has a limit on the number of articles you can read each month.
Stupid newspapers.
Quote from: Josephus on September 26, 2016, 08:34:17 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 26, 2016, 08:22:35 AM
Can't. Washington Post has a limit on the number of articles you can read each month.
Stupid newspapers.
I blame fat cat money grubbing journalists. With their high pay, excellent job security, and glamorous lifestyles, why can't they give the poor readers a break once in a while?
[ :D ]
I blame lawyers. Because, why not?
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
They have a website and have a posted platform. I have criticized it as being very vague, broad, and militant before which I thought was a shame.
I would prefer they focus on the police brutality issue, because I seriously doubt the platform they posted would even be that appealing to most black people.
Sadly this issue seems to be entering the culture war battlefield where things get meme'd and feces gets thrown but gridlock prevails. I would have hoped poorly trained police killing civilians would have raised almost universal condemnation.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 26, 2016, 08:41:53 AM
I blame lawyers. Because, why not?
You could make that "
Jew lawyers", and get this thread more or less right back on topic. :D
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 05:36:36 AM
....All I've seen from them is stop shooting black people for no reason.
Didn't even realise it was a centralised political party.
Well call me crazy but shooting citizens even for reasons is not acceptable. Execution of criminals is supposed to be left up to the courts. I mean I understand that sometimes this has to happen but it seems obvious that some pretty flimsy justifications are being used.
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 07:06:14 AM
It may be true. I read writings of slaveholders every day after all.
:lol:
Good point :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2016, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
They have a website and have a posted platform. I have criticized it as being very vague, broad, and militant before which I thought was a shame.
I would prefer they focus on the police brutality issue, because I seriously doubt the platform they posted would even be that appealing to most black people.
Sadly this issue seems to be entering the culture war battlefield where things get meme'd and feces gets thrown but gridlock prevails. I would have hoped poorly trained police killing civilians would have raised almost universal condemnation.
To get serious for a minute, this.
I suspect that the process goes something like this:
- a new cause is triggered by events. That cause creates a lot of justified anger and a great desire for change.
- the people drawn into this new cause initially have, in many cases, no experience whatsoever at organizing, articulating, publicizing etc. - all necessities of sustaining a cause over ythe long term.
- the new cause is joined by a bunch of folks who have this experience, because of their experience with other protest movements.
- these folks end up doing all of the tasks - like organizing and publicity. They may or may not actually speak for the "movement", which is pretty amorphous, but they are the only ones doing these things, so that's how it ends up.
- these folks inevitably end up plugging the other movements they have previously championed alongside the new goals of this new movement. In part this is merely mouthing the necessary shibboleths of their particular political orientation, and in part seeing the members of the new movement as welcome recruits for their ranks ready to be enlisted.
- that's why BLM, which started with outrage over police shootings of Blacks, end up so concerned with issues relating to a tiny middle eastern country thousands of miles away.
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
I don't see why that's true. It is the mistake that keeps LGBT together these days even though T doesn't really seem to fit in same paradigm.
I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but it just seems to make sense to me. They can see parallels in wrongful deaths (as seen by BLM) being perpetrated by a western governing body and have a sense of similarity of the situation.
As for the LBGT community it seems to have grown very amorphous. Don't know why that is but it seems odd as many of the issues don't seem to overlap well. Things like trains bathroom rights seem to cause a lot of dissension. I guess it made sense to have as large a lobby group as possible in the start to effect more change, but I'm just grasping at straws with that.
Yeah I think Malthus and garbon are closer to truth than HVC. In fact the "crossectionality" is one of the attempts by activists to create a sort of big tent where there is none.
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:19:43 AM
I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but it just seems to make sense to me. They can see parallels in wrongful deaths (as seen by BLM) being perpetrated by a western governing body and have a sense of similarity of the situation.
As for the LBGT community it seems to have grown very amorphous. Don't know why that is but it seems odd as many of the issues don't seem to overlap well. Things like trains bathroom rights seem to cause a lot of dissension. I guess it made sense to have as large a lobby group as possible in the start to effect more change, but I'm just grasping at straws with that.
For what it's worth, I think everybody should have a right to use bathrooms on trains. :P
The rocking motion causes people to piss on the floor. No bathrooms on trains!!!
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
Is it possible to be critical of the BLM without being a white supremacist?
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
Most empires in world history have thrived on this simply not being true.
Well actually I don't know if that was true but the Roman and British Empires did by design.
A suppressed minority somewhere else. A suppressed minority at home makes you feel better. "At least I'm better than *blank*" is common enough.
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
The issue is the particularity of the choice of "repressed minority" to fell sympathy with. Seems strangely coincidental that it
just happens to be the same sympathies that already exist as well-organized movements. :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on September 26, 2016, 09:28:39 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
The issue is the particularity of the choice of "repressed minority" to fell sympathy with. Seems strangely coincidental that it just happens to be the same sympathies that already exist as well-organized movements. :lol:
Yeah, it is just folding in strands of leftist thought that already existed ahead of the movement.
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:19:43 AM
I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but it just seems to make sense to me. They can see parallels in wrongful deaths (as seen by BLM) being perpetrated by a western governing body and have a sense of similarity of the situation.
As for the LBGT community it seems to have grown very amorphous. Don't know why that is but it seems odd as many of the issues don't seem to overlap well. Things like trains bathroom rights seem to cause a lot of dissension. I guess it made sense to have as large a lobby group as possible in the start to effect more change, but I'm just grasping at straws with that.
For what it's worth, I think everybody should have a right to use bathrooms on trains. :P
:D
Quote from: Malthus on September 26, 2016, 09:28:39 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
The issue is the particularity of the choice of "repressed minority" to fell sympathy with. Seems strangely coincidental that it just happens to be the same sympathies that already exist as well-organized movements. :lol:
Not many other western nations have the same dynamic as Israel. Or at least as well documented and publicized. Are there many black liberal movements involved within protesting Israel? Or maybe I'm making a mistake of segregating black political movements from the overall liberal movements.
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:19:43 AM
I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but it just seems to make sense to me. They can see parallels in wrongful deaths (as seen by BLM) being perpetrated by a western governing body and have a sense of similarity of the situation.
As for the LBGT community it seems to have grown very amorphous. Don't know why that is but it seems odd as many of the issues don't seem to overlap well. Things like trains bathroom rights seem to cause a lot of dissension. I guess it made sense to have as large a lobby group as possible in the start to effect more change, but I'm just grasping at straws with that.
For what it's worth, I think everybody should have a right to use bathrooms on trains. :P
:D
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 09:20:30 AM
Yeah I think Malthus and garbon are closer to truth than HVC. In fact the "crossectionality" is one of the attempts by activists to create a sort of big tent where there is none.
I've never seen it that way. I've always thought it was something like how there once was a tent of feminism but when black feminists finally got a voice they said that the issues of 'feminism' were really just issues of 'white feminism.' (for ex. black women weren't worried about getting work, they'd long been breadwinners for their families) It was important to see how other things like race intersected with women's issues to understand what was being addressed.
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:33:26 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 26, 2016, 09:28:39 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
The issue is the particularity of the choice of "repressed minority" to fell sympathy with. Seems strangely coincidental that it just happens to be the same sympathies that already exist as well-organized movements. :lol:
Not many other western nations have the same dynamic as Israel. Or at least as well documented and publicized. Are there many black liberal movements involved within protesting Israel? Or maybe I'm making a mistake of segregating black political movements from the overall liberal movements.
The latter.
In some "progressive" circles, criticism of Israel is practically a badge of membership.
Therefore, it is not a surprise that activist groups apparently devoted to all sorts of completely different causes mirror this.
The go-to example is gay activist groups. They are sometime rabidly anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, which makes literally odd bedfellows, given the different approach to gay rights actually available in Israel versus Palestine (many gay Palestinians are killed by fellow Palestinians, while Tel Aviv is a bit of a gay centre).
Quote from: garbon on September 26, 2016, 09:13:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
I don't see why that's true. It is the mistake that keeps LGBT together these days even though T doesn't really seem to fit in same paradigm.
It certainly fits better than the B part. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 26, 2016, 03:07:23 AM
Is being more Jewish than CDM your new shtick? :P
Oy gevalt! :lol:
Would it make any difference than Rand Paul supports ending US aid to Israel, too? As do right-wing nutters? As well as the bulldozer grease industry?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 26, 2016, 09:59:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 26, 2016, 09:13:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
I think it's simpler than that. If you feel like you're a repressed minority then you'd feel some sympathy for another repressed minority.
I don't see why that's true. It is the mistake that keeps LGBT together these days even though T doesn't really seem to fit in same paradigm.
It certainly fits better than the B part. :P
Nah. B is often a transitional stage to gaytown. T has little to do with that / by its very nature sort of assumes more strict gender roles (if one can intrinsically feel like the wrong gender then there is something more to gender than just social norms) than the loose conception of gender roles that G and L strive for.
That's it. No more funding for the Bureau of Land Management. Let those freaky ranchers run wild.
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 02:57:34 AM
supremacist
I do not think that word means what you think it means
QuoteIn fact the only country I can think of with similar law-enshrined discriminatory treatment based on race is apartheid South Africa.
And post-apartheid South Africa.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 26, 2016, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
Is it possible to be critical of the BLM without being a white supremacist?
According to modern intersectional race theory, no.
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 26, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 26, 2016, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
Is it possible to be critical of the BLM without being a white supremacist?
According to modern intersectional race theory, no.
Oh, sweetie, don't use terms that you don't understand. :hug:
Quote from: garbon on September 26, 2016, 12:56:17 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 26, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 26, 2016, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
Is it possible to be critical of the BLM without being a white supremacist?
According to modern intersectional race theory, no.
Oh, sweetie, don't use terms that you don't understand. :hug:
Why? Hasn't stopped the insane postmodern "scholars" which gave birth to the garbage the BLM people quote.
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 08:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 05:36:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 02:57:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 02:52:21 AM
Black lives matter is a racial supremacist group?
Their demands include free college education and minimum guaranteed income (not wage!) for all black people, special subsidies for businesses owned by blacks, special funding for majority-black universities, etc. That's pretty racist/racial supremacist to me. In fact the only country I can think of with similar law-enshrined discriminatory treatment based on race is apartheid South Africa.
....All I've seen from them is stop shooting black people for no reason.
Didn't even realise it was a centralised political party.
They have announced a platform. You could know that if you read the article I posted in the first post. :huh:
You didn't read the article? Seriously? :rolleyes:
The point is there is no they. They're not a single united party.
And no matter what typical stuff they say about Israel or other silly stuff in the BLM name it doesn't mean they don't have valid points otherwise.
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 26, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 26, 2016, 12:56:17 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 26, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 26, 2016, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 26, 2016, 06:18:42 AM
It's not. It's just that the idea of a political group of African-Americans haunts the nightmares of white supremacists.
Is it possible to be critical of the BLM without being a white supremacist?
According to modern intersectional race theory, no.
Oh, sweetie, don't use terms that you don't understand. :hug:
Why? Hasn't stopped the insane postmodern "scholars" which gave birth to the garbage the BLM people quote.
And that's what you aim to be?
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 01:04:54 PM
You didn't read the article? Seriously? :rolleyes:
The point is there is no they. They're not a single united party.
And no matter what typical stuff they say about Israel or other silly stuff in the BLM name it doesn't mean they don't have valid points otherwise.
If there is no they and there is no single united party with an agenda and points then how exactly can the bolded part follow?
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2016, 01:28:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 01:04:54 PM
You didn't read the article? Seriously? :rolleyes:
The point is there is no they. They're not a single united party.
And no matter what typical stuff they say about Israel or other silly stuff in the BLM name it doesn't mean they don't have valid points otherwise.
If there is no they and there is no single united party with an agenda and points then how exactly can the bolded part follow?
:lol: I don't think Tyr has actually thought through that position: "there is no they, but they have valid points."
Quote from: grumbler on September 26, 2016, 01:45:57 PM
:lol: I don't think Tyr has actually thought through that position: "there is no they, but they have valid points."
So because "Black Lives Matter" doesn't have a charter or home office, black lives really don't matter? Whew. Hear that, derspieß? You were right after all!
lol #Make501c3StrongAgain
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 26, 2016, 02:07:43 PM
So because "Black Lives Matter" doesn't have a charter or home office, black lives really don't matter? Whew. Hear that, derspieß? You were right after all!
lol #Make501c3StrongAgain
I didn't know that. Hell, i didn't even know you were the person who decided that. :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 26, 2016, 02:07:43 PM
So because "Black Lives Matter" doesn't have a charter or home office, black lives really don't matter?
If they don't then they clearly don't think so, since they cannot be bothered to even do the minimal shit to be effective. Must not be very important.
But they have, so far as I can tell.
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2016, 02:28:00 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 26, 2016, 02:07:43 PM
So because "Black Lives Matter" doesn't have a charter or home office, black lives really don't matter?
If they don't then they clearly don't think so, since they cannot be bothered to even do the minimal shit to be effective. Must not be very important.
:huh:
Black Lives Matter: No, It Wasn't What You Thought It Meant
I once went to an anti-WTO protest where a number of people got up to speak out against police brutality; so I guess it all balances out.
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2016, 01:28:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 26, 2016, 01:04:54 PM
You didn't read the article? Seriously? :rolleyes:
The point is there is no they. They're not a single united party.
And no matter what typical stuff they say about Israel or other silly stuff in the BLM name it doesn't mean they don't have valid points otherwise.
If there is no they and there is no single united party with an agenda and points then how exactly can the bolded part follow?
There is no "they" determining overall policy.
There is however a broad mass of people protesting against racism; generally and group by group against specific incidents. Usually pretty validly.
Quote from: Savonarola on September 26, 2016, 04:14:30 PM
I once went to an anti-WTO protest where a number of people got up to speak out against police brutality; so I guess it all balances out.
Considering how Seattle PD went up in them Tiananmen Square donkey dick-style, I can appreciate how it made the agenda.
Black Lives Matter are nothing more than the communists from Occupy Wall Street recasted in a new movie.
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 02:57:34 AM
Their demands include... ...special subsidies for businesses owned by blacks, special funding for majority-black universities
You do know that we already have those two things in the US, right? Though probably not to the extent whoever posted than manifesto wants.