As opposed to reviled. In 2003 a German TV show polled Germans with this result (ranked 1 - 10).
Konrad Adenauer
Martin Luther
Karl Marx
Sophie und Hans Scholl
Willy Brandt
Johann Sebastian Bach
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Johannes Gutenberg
Otto von Bismarck
Albert Einstein
I'm honestly struggling to name "the one German" who's most revered. Luther, and Goethe would certainly make the shortlist, though.
Another tough question. Perhaps Harald Blåtand (Bluetooth), Hans Christian Andersen, Michael Laudrup, Niels Bohr, H.C. Ørsted, Tycho Brahe, Kirkegaard, or someone I'm forgetting right now.
I can't find any national polls on Google.
Miguel de Cervantes.
When they did the Spanish version of that "Great Britons" program, King Juan Carlos won though :bleeding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Espa%C3%B1ol_de_la_Historia
Also, #22. Fuck this country.
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:16:33 AM
Miguel de Cervantes.
When they did the Spanish version of that "Great Britons" program, King Juan Carlos won though :bleeding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Espa%C3%B1ol_de_la_Historia
Also, #22. Fuck this country.
Hey, Stalin was much much higher on the list when Russia did that vote, so there's that. :hug:
The Pope
Józef Piłsudski
Adam Mickiewicz
Fryderyk Chopin
Copernicus
Abraham Lincoln or George Washington
As for Catalans... It's probably King Jaume I (conquered Valencia, Mallorca from the Arabs). He's comfortably the most popular Catalan historic figure, and relatively non-controversial. I guess separatists would pick Lluís Companys, though.
I'd personally vote Salvador Dalí, but I'm a huge fan.
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:16:33 AM
Miguel de Cervantes.
When they did the Spanish version of that "Great Britons" program, King Juan Carlos won though :bleeding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Espa%C3%B1ol_de_la_Historia
Also, #22. Fuck this country.
Queen Sofía at #4, (then Prince) Felipe at #7, (then Princess) Leti at #15. They must have polled "Hola!" readers.
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 03:37:28 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:16:33 AM
Miguel de Cervantes.
When they did the Spanish version of that "Great Britons" program, King Juan Carlos won though :bleeding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Espa%C3%B1ol_de_la_Historia
Also, #22. Fuck this country.
Queen Sofía at #4, (then Prince) Felipe at #7, (then Princess) Leti at #15. They must have polled "Hola!" readers.
ZP at #14... :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:39:09 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 03:37:28 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:16:33 AM
Miguel de Cervantes.
When they did the Spanish version of that "Great Britons" program, King Juan Carlos won though :bleeding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Espa%C3%B1ol_de_la_Historia
Also, #22. Fuck this country.
Queen Sofía at #4, (then Prince) Felipe at #7, (then Princess) Leti at #15. They must have polled "Hola!" readers.
ZP at #14... :lol:
Yeah, that was a headscratcher. :lol:
Seeing the amount of sportsmen I'd add that besides "Hola!" readers they must have polled "Marca" readers as well.
The guy who got the capital named after him.
So my quick list
Viriato (this one is for Larch :P)
D. Afonso Henriques (First king)
Henry the Navigator
D. João II
Vasco da Gama
Luis de Camões
Gil Vicente (father of Portuguese theatre during the Renaissance)
Marquis of Pombal
Eça de Queiroz (one of the most famous novelists)
Fernando Pessoa (the most famous novelist maybe)
Salazar (number one last time they made the poll thanks to the inclusion of an infamous orthodox marxist-leninist some people say just stalinist). I say Salazar he deserves a number 10, but not more, and not for all good reasons.
Funnily enough, Salazar won the parallel contest of the worst Portuguese ever. Same number 2, Cunhal the marxist-leninist for all ages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os_Piores_Portugueses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os_Piores_Portugueses)
Others
Manoel de Oliveira (actor and movie director from the beginning of Portuguese talkies to well, just recently)
Arisistides de Sousa Mendes (Portuguese Just among the Nations)
Ámalia Rodrigues (most famous Fado singer buried in the local Pantheon)
Eusébio (famous football player buried in the Pantheon too)
Egas Moniz (Doctor first Portuguese Nobel Prize )
Afonso de Albuquerque 1462–1515 The conquistador, or military strategist and governor of India if you will, deserves to be way higher for Europa Universalis reasons,
inter alii. ;)
Saramago, the novelist despiste his despicable politics. Marxist-leninist orthodox who tried to pass
Álvaro Cunhal (the Portuguese stalinist for you number 2 in that infamous contest)
Cristiano Ronaldo will join in time Eusébio I believe.
Lots more there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os_Grandes_Portugueses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os_Grandes_Portugueses) Inspired from the same BBC contest
The more recent, the less relevant, in general though Maria Helena Vieira da Silva and Maria João Pires could qualify.
As for Mourinho, needs to be coach for Portugal and win something (for Liep). :D
Maybe Fernando Santos could be added.
Quote
Position Name Lived
11 Salgueiro Maia 1944–1992 soldier, a key figure in the Carnation Revolution of 1974
12 Mário Soares born 1924 former President of the Republic
13 Saint Anthony of Lisbon 1195–1231 saint
14 Amália Rodrigues 1920–1999 fado singer
15 Eusébio 1942-2014 football player
16 Francisco Sá Carneiro 1934–1980 politician
17 Jorge Nuno Pinto da Costa born 1937 president of Futebol Clube do Porto
18 Nuno Álvares Pereira 1360–1431 strategist and general
19 João Ferreira Annes de Almeida 1628–1691 missionary
20 José Mourinho born 1963 football team manager
21 Agostinho da Silva 1906–1994 philosopher
22 Eça de Queiroz 1845–1900 realist writer
23 Egas Moniz 1874–1955 doctor, first Portuguese to win a Nobel Prize
24 Denis of Portugal 1261–1325 6th king of Portugal
25 Fernando Nobre born 1951 president of the AMI foundation
26 José Hermano Saraiva 1919-2012 historian, TV host
27 Cavaco Silva born 1939 President of the Portuguese Republic, former Prime Minister
28 Humberto Delgado 1906–1965 military officer and politician
29 Zeca Afonso 1929–1987 singer-songwriter
30 Luís Figo born 1972 football player
31 Marcelo Caetano 1906–1980 politician and professor
32 Pedro Nunes 1502–1578 scientist and mathematician
33 Father António Vieira 1608–1697 writer and preacher
34 Florbela Espanca 1894–1930 poet
35 Ferdinand Magellan c. 1480–1521 navigator
36 Maria de Lurdes Pintasilgo 1930–2004 the only female prime-minister of Portugal
37 John I of Portugal 1357–1433 10th king of Portugal
38 Sophia de Mello Breyner 1919–2004 writer and poet
39 Antonia Ferreira 1811–1896 businesswoman
40 Father Américo 1887–1953 philanthroper
41 António Damásio born 1944 scientist
42 Afonso de Albuquerque 1462–1515 military strategist and governor of India
43 Manuel I of Portugal 1469–1521 14th king of Portugal
44 José Saramago 1922–2010* Nobel-laureate writer
45 Elizabeth of Portugal 1271–1336 The Saint Queen, queen consort of Portugal
46 Catarina Eufémia 1928–1954 popular heroine
47 Carlos Paredes 1925–2004 Portuguese guitarra player and composer
48 José Sócrates born 1957 former Prime Minister of Portugal
49 Pedro Álvares Cabral 1467–1520 navigator who discovered Brazil
50 Ruy de Carvalho born 1927 actor
51 Brites de Almeida, The Baker of Aljubarrota 14th century popular heroine
52 Alberto João Jardim born 1943 president of the Autonomous Region of Madeira
53 Almada Negreiros 1893–1970 modern painter and writer
54 Vasco Gonçalves 1921–2005 military officer and politician
55 Álvaro Siza Vieira born 1933 architect
56 Belmiro de Azevedo born 1938 businessman
57 Sousa Martins 1843–1897 doctor
58 Maria do Carmo Seabra born 1955 former minister of Education
59 Father António Andrade 1580–1624 missionary explorer
60 Charles I of Portugal 1860–1908 32nd king of Portugal
61 Mariza born 1973 fado singer
62 Eleanor of Portugal 1458–1525 queen consort of Portugal
63 Rosa Mota born 1958 athlete
64 António Teixeira Rebelo 1748–1825 founder of the military school
65 Afonso III of Portugal 1210–1279 5th king of Portugal
66 Vítor Baía born 1969 football goalkeeper
67 Bartolomeu Dias c. 1450–1500 navigator
68 Otelo Saraiva de Carvalho born 1936 military officer and politician
69 Cristiano Ronaldo born 1985 football player
70 Herman José born 1954 actor and comedian
71 Mary II of Portugal 1819–1853 queen of Portugal
72 Carlos Lopes born 1947 athlete
73 Afonso Costa 1871–1937 politician
74 Fontes Pereira de Melo 1819–1887 politician
75 Gago Coutinho 1869–1959 geographer – first to cross the South Atlantic by plane
76 Ricardo de Araújo Pereira born 1974 comedian
77 Manuel Sobrinho Simões born 1947 doctor and scientist
78 Bocage 1765–1805 poet
79 Hélio Pestana born 1985 actor, teenage idol
80 Jorge Sampaio born 1939 former President of the Portuguese Republic
81 António Champalimaud 1918–2004 businessman
82 António Lobo Antunes born 1942 writer
83 Gil Vicente c. 1465–1536 playwright
84 Maria Helena Vieira da Silva 1908–1992 painter
85 Miguel Torga 1907–1995 writer
86 Natália Correia 1923–1993 poet and writer
87 Edgar Cardoso 1913–2000 engineer
88 Fernão Mendes Pinto c. 1510–1583 explorer and writer
89 Sister Lúcia 1907–2005 nun
90 Alfredo da Silva 1871–1942 industrialist
91 Pedro Hispano c. 1205–1277 Pope John XXI
92 Damião de Góis 1502–1574 humanist writer and humanist
93 John IV of Portugal 1604–1656 20th king of Portugal
94 Joaquim Agostinho 1943–1984 cyclist
95 Adelaide Cabete 1867–1935 doctor
96 Almeida Garrett 1799–1854 romanticist writer
97 António Gentil Martins born 1930 doctor
98 António Variações 1944–1984 singer-songwriter
99 Paula Rego born 1935 painter
100 Maria João Pires born 1944 pianist
Probably Churchill, by idiots who know little about him.
Viriato is a shared one, we will require 50% of the credit gained for him. :P
Quote from: Syt on September 22, 2016, 03:01:34 AM
As opposed to reviled. In 2003 a German TV show polled Germans with this result (ranked 1 - 10).
Konrad Adenauer
Martin Luther
Karl Marx
Sophie und Hans Scholl
Willy Brandt
Johann Sebastian Bach
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Johannes Gutenberg
Otto von Bismarck
Albert Einstein
I'm honestly struggling to name "the one German" who's most revered. Luther, and Goethe would certainly make the shortlist, though.
No Humbolt?
Quote from: Gups on September 22, 2016, 04:39:50 AM
No Humbolt?
I doubt many people remember him as anything other than the name giver to a university. His contributions to sciences has slipped from public consciousness. Similar with the Grimm brothers' contribution to cataloguing and analyzing German language.
Humboldt ranked #61, far behind cyclist Jan Ulrich and several footballers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsere_Besten
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 04:35:32 AM
Viriato is a shared one, we will require 50% of the credit gained for him. :P
We as Zamoranos or Galicians? :P
I guess Pelágio gets shared with Portugal then after all his language or a dialect of it is officialy recognised by Portugal. More of a link with Portugal than say Spain as in Catalonia or Basque Country. .D
Also Columbus gets to be shared by 3 countries. Great candidate for a Euro banknote, when they abandon the abstract, empty style and when PC is curbed.
Quote from: Syt on September 22, 2016, 04:42:08 AM
Quote from: Gups on September 22, 2016, 04:39:50 AM
No Humbolt?
I doubt many people remember him as anything other than the name giver to a university. His contributions to sciences has slipped from public consciousness. Similar with the Grimm brothers' contribution to cataloguing and analyzing German language.
Humboldt ranked #61, far behind cyclist Jan Ulrich and several footballers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsere_Besten
That's a shame. I've just read a biog of him which seeks to reintroduce him to the English-speaking world. It's sold well and won lost of prizes so may be achieving that aim.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Invention-Nature-Adventures-Alexander-Humboldt-ebook/dp/B00PW4O1SQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1474538420&sr=1-1&keywords=humboldt
His contribution really was immense.
Thanks for the link. He led an absolutely fascinating life, and was one of the prime researchers/explorers of the 19th century. His older brother Wilhelm also has a very interesting CV.
The greates Belgian according to the Show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grootste_Belg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grootste_Belg)
For the Flemish (VRT program)
Pater Damiaan (Father Damian/ helped the leppers in Hawaii)
Paul Janssen (Founder of a Pharmaceutical Company named after him)
Eddy Merckx (need I to explain this)
Ambiorix (the one who fought Caesar)
Adolf Daens (Christandemocrat priest who fought for the poor in parliament, was made a movie about it)
Andreas Vesalius (one of the founding fathers of Anatomy)
Jacques Brel (Famous francophone chansonnier)
Gerardus Mercator (he introduced the word atlas in geography and created the mercatorprojection)
Peter Paul Rubens (famous painter)
Hendrik Conscience (19th century Flemish writer of the "Lion of Flanders", one of the first Flamingants)
For The walloons (RTBF program)
Jacques Brel
Baldwin I of Belgium
Father Damian
Eddy Merckx
Sister Emmanuelle (concurrnece to mother theresa but in Cairo)
José van Dam (opera singer)
Benoît Poelvoorde (Francophone actor)
Hergé
René Magritte
Georges Simenon (Belgian Agatha Christie)
For my grandfather's generation I would also say King Albert II (the soldier king)
Seeing the lists from other countries gives some funny results.
In the Greatest Frenchmen one Napoleon only came at #16, behind a bunch of comedians that nobody outside of France has ever heard of. De Gaulle topped that one, followed by Pasteur. Marie Curie was at #4, I wonder if she would have finished as high in a similar poll in Poland.
In the greatest Croatians, #1 was Tito and #2 was Tesla, none of whom are really associated with Croatia by itself at all.
The greatest Brazilian was won by an spiritist medium. :lol: I would have thought that it would be won by Pelé, but he was only Top 12.
Pim Fortuyn topped the Best Dutch one. :bleeding:
Surprisingly neither Perón, nor Evita or Maradona won the Greatest Argentinian one.
Bono ended up as the #5 greatest Irishman.
Out of the embarrassment of riches that the Greatest Italian could be, they still sneaked Laura Pausini at #6. :lol:
In the Greatest Romanian one Vlad Tepes scored a dissapointing #12 spot, sandwiched between Ceaucescu and Gigi Becali (Steaua Bucarest president and extremely nasty and corrupt individual).
Greatest American was...Ronald Reagan. :huh:
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM
Greatest American was...Ronald Reagan. :huh:
I could see that he would score high but wouldn't really put him down as most revered American.
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM
Seeing the lists from other countries gives some funny results.
In the Greatest Frenchmen one Napoleon only came at #16, behind a bunch of comedians that nobody outside of France has ever heard of. De Gaulle topped that one, followed by Pasteur. Marie Curie was at #4, I wonder if he would have finished as high in a similar poll in Poland.
You are a bit harsh, a bit ignorant or maybe of the wrong generation. Remember, it is from 2005 :P Fernandel is famous abroad for the Don Camillo series. As for Bourvil, his most famous role abroad might actuallybe a dramatic one in Le Cercle Rouge. Classic noir by Melville. Or is it nowadays only known by cinephiles like Savonarola? :hmm: Ide knows and probably reviewed that movie.
Coluche is well remembered for his humanitarian association, though perhaps more in France unlike his movies which were exported.
Kind of disappointed that De Funés ended after Napoleon though. :lol: Or is he another unknown, reserved for the likes of Savonarola? I guess Spanish dubbing does not help too.
Robespierre is there at least, so Valmy will be happy but not Saint-Just. :(
Zidane before Platini, a generation thing, and before Charlemagne. :D
Right about poor Vlad the Empaler, I could see him behind Stephen the Great but Ceaucescu? :cry:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 04:47:03 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 04:35:32 AM
Viriato is a shared one, we will require 50% of the credit gained for him. :P
We as Zamoranos or Galicians? :P
I guess Pelágio gets shared with Portugal then after all his language or a dialect of it is officialy recognised by Portugal. More of a link with Portugal than say Spain as in Catalonia or Basque Country. .D
Also Columbus gets to be shared by 3 countries. Great candidate for a Euro banknote, when they abandon the abstract, empty style and when PC is curbed.
I was speaking as half-Zamoran for that one. :lol:
If you call him Pelágio almost nobody in Spain will know who you're talking about. :P And yeah, his link to modern Spain is tenuous at best, but he became a mythical figure over time and a certain school of thought put him in a pedestal. It's almost impossible to talk with somebody from Asturias without them bringing him up in a "you should be grateful" ironic kind of way. Claiming him for Portugal is a huge stretch, though, Portugal didn't even exist back then. :P
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM
Seeing the lists from other countries gives some funny results.
In the Greatest Frenchmen one Napoleon only came at #16, behind a bunch of comedians that nobody outside of France has ever heard of. De Gaulle topped that one, followed by Pasteur. Marie Curie was at #4, I wonder if he would have finished as high in a similar poll in Poland.
You are a bit harsh, a bit ignorant or maybe of the wrong generation. Remember, it is from 2005 :P Fernandel is famous abroad for the Don Camillo series. As for Bourvil, his most famous role abroad might actuallybe a dramatic one in Le Cercle Rouge. Classic noir by Melville. Or is it nowadays only known by cinephiles like Savonarola? :hmm: Ide knows and probably reviewed that movie.
Coluche is well remembered for his humanitarian association, though perhaps more in France unlike his movies which were exported.
Kind of disappointed that De Funés ended after Napoleon though. :lol: Or is i another unknown, reserved for the likes of Savonarola? I guess Spanish dubbing does not help too.
I'd wager most of those are unknown in the English speaking world too.
The top 10 list from a big BBC survey in 2002:
1.Sir Winston Churchill
2.Isambard Kingdom Brunel
3.Diana, Princess of Wales
4.Charles Darwin
5.William Shakespeare
6.Sir Isaac Newton
7.Elizabeth I
8.John Lennon
9.Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson
10.Oliver Cromwell
Apart from Diana and arguably Lennon, it's a decent enough top 10.
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 06:39:56 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 04:47:03 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 04:35:32 AM
Viriato is a shared one, we will require 50% of the credit gained for him. :P
We as Zamoranos or Galicians? :P
I guess Pelágio gets shared with Portugal then after all his language or a dialect of it is officialy recognised by Portugal. More of a link with Portugal than say Spain as in Catalonia or Basque Country. .D
Also Columbus gets to be shared by 3 countries. Great candidate for a Euro banknote, when they abandon the abstract, empty style and when PC is curbed.
I was speaking as half-Zamoran for that one. :lol:
If you call him Pelágio almost nobody in Spain will know who you're talking about. :P And yeah, his link to modern Spain is tenuous at best, but he became a mythical figure over time and a certain school of thought put him in a pedestal. It's almost impossible to talk with somebody from Asturias without them bringing him up in a "you should be grateful" ironic kind of way. Claiming him for Portugal is a huge stretch, though, Portugal didn't even exist back then. :P
Over here we don't give much of a hoot about Don Pelayo/Pelagius. Charlemagne >>>>>>>>> Him.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM
Seeing the lists from other countries gives some funny results.
In the Greatest Frenchmen one Napoleon only came at #16, behind a bunch of comedians that nobody outside of France has ever heard of. De Gaulle topped that one, followed by Pasteur. Marie Curie was at #4, I wonder if he would have finished as high in a similar poll in Poland.
You are a bit harsh, a bit ignorant or maybe of the wrong generation. Remember, it is from 2005 :P Fernandel is famous abroad for the Don Camillo series. As for Bourvil, his most famous role abroad might actuallybe a dramatic one in Le Cercle Rouge. Classic noir by Melville. Or is it nowadays only known by cinephiles like Savonarola? :hmm: Ide knows and probably reviewed that movie.
Coluche is well remembered for his humanitarian association, though perhaps more in France unlike his movies which were exported.
Kind of disappointed that De Funés ended after Napoleon though. :lol: Or is i another unknown, reserved for the likes of Savonarola? I guess Spanish dubbing does not help too.
Preto, please. Coluche, Bourvil, Pagnol and Fernandel ahead of Napoleon is a travestry. Out of those the only one who rings a bell for me is Fernandel, but marginally. It's not that I don't think that they don't deserve to be there, is that they're barely known outside of France.
I can easily see Napoleon being a controversial figure to a degree within France. Those comedians are probably loved by all, even if much more irrelevant.
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 06:39:56 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 04:47:03 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 04:35:32 AM
Viriato is a shared one, we will require 50% of the credit gained for him. :P
We as Zamoranos or Galicians? :P
I guess Pelágio gets shared with Portugal then after all his language or a dialect of it is officialy recognised by Portugal. More of a link with Portugal than say Spain as in Catalonia or Basque Country. .D
Also Columbus gets to be shared by 3 countries. Great candidate for a Euro banknote, when they abandon the abstract, empty style and when PC is curbed.
I was speaking as half-Zamoran for that one. :lol:
If you call him Pelágio almost nobody in Spain will know who you're talking about. :P And yeah, his link to modern Spain is tenuous at best, but he became a mythical figure over time and a certain school of thought put him in a pedestal. It's almost impossible to talk with somebody from Asturias without them bringing him up in a "you should be grateful" ironic kind of way. Claiming him for Portugal is a huge stretch, though, Portugal didn't even exist back then. :P
Without Pelágio/Pelayo/Pelagius, no Spain and no Portugal as we know them so that is the link, tenuous at best. Spain did not exist back then too. ;)
Plus ,as I said, Asturian or its local dialect in Portugal is enshrined in the Portuguese constitution. Not to mention the ethnic Astur homeland in Roman times included a bit of NE Portugal.
So when is Spain doing the same about Asturian language in its constitution? It is more of a language than Valencian you know. :P
So yes, if Spain drops it from the claims, yes Portugal should drop it.
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 06:52:47 AM
I can easily see Napoleon being a controversial figure to a degree within France. Those comedians are probably loved by all, even if much more irrelevant.
Yeah, I can see that too and would probably feel the same.
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 06:52:47 AM
I can easily see Napoleon being a controversial figure to a degree within France. Those comedians are probably loved by all, even if much more irrelevant.
I'm sure that Napoleon is not an universally beloved figure in France, and that those comedians are way more uncontroversial, but if you do these kind of lists properly you also have to consider relevance and impact, and those guys rank pretty low on that. It's not that I think that Napoleon should be #1, De Gaulle is and I can see why, although he must also be a controversial figure, and there are a bunch of luminaries at the top (Pasteur, Curie, Moliere, Victor Hugo) that nobody would argue against them being there, but those guys are not simply ahead of Napoleon, others are and I have no problem with that, it's that they're at almost the very top of the list (Coluche is #5, Bourvil is #7), and that makes no sense.
It can be seen each of these lists' bias, though, and the French one seems to be biased against the "Great Leader" historical kind of figures, besides De Gaulle. Napoleon is #16, Charlemagne is #22, Joan of Arc is #31, Louis XIV is #50, while they are biased in favour of cultural ones.
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 06:49:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM
Seeing the lists from other countries gives some funny results.
In the Greatest Frenchmen one Napoleon only came at #16, behind a bunch of comedians that nobody outside of France has ever heard of. De Gaulle topped that one, followed by Pasteur. Marie Curie was at #4, I wonder if he would have finished as high in a similar poll in Poland.
You are a bit harsh, a bit ignorant or maybe of the wrong generation. Remember, it is from 2005 :P Fernandel is famous abroad for the Don Camillo series. As for Bourvil, his most famous role abroad might actuallybe a dramatic one in Le Cercle Rouge. Classic noir by Melville. Or is it nowadays only known by cinephiles like Savonarola? :hmm: Ide knows and probably reviewed that movie.
Coluche is well remembered for his humanitarian association, though perhaps more in France unlike his movies which were exported.
Kind of disappointed that De Funés ended after Napoleon though. :lol: Or is i another unknown, reserved for the likes of Savonarola? I guess Spanish dubbing does not help too.
Preto, please. Coluche, Bourvil, Pagnol and Fernandel ahead of Napoleon is a travestry. Out of those the only one who rings a bell for me is Fernandel, but marginally. It's not that I don't think that they don't deserve to be there, is that they're barely known outside of France.
First
Preto is a pretty poor translation of Nigga, sorry. :P
Second, as said even by the wiki link
QuoteThe show was criticized by some historians in that it focused only on personalities of recent French history. Key figures of French history who contributed to the founding of the French nation, such as the national heroine Joan of Arc, the kings Philip Augustus, Saint Louis, and Louis XIV or French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte were largely ignored.
There lies the major problem. Robespierre, like him or not, should be way higher on the list.
Pagnol is one of the major French novelists so he fits perfectly. Just because movies adapted from his books were badly dubbed or distributed in Spain is no excuse. You also find La Fontaine and Jules Verne before Napoleon, now do not tell me they are not famous abroad, at least for Verne.
Plus, what said celedhring, kind of controversial un-PC nowadays.
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM
Pim Fortuyn topped the Best Dutch one. :bleeding:
He topped it but it turned out to have been a mistake in counting votes. William of Orange won by a fair margin.
Still embarrassing though :Embarrass:
Although apart from Fortuyn it's a decent list:
1 Pim Fortuyn [later demoted to second place]
2 Willem van Oranje [later promoted to first place]
3 Willem Drees
4 Antoni van Leeuwenhoek
5 Desiderius Erasmus
6 Johan Cruijff
7 Michiel de Ruyter
8 Anne Frank
9 Rembrandt van Rijn
10 Vincent van Gogh
MLK, Muhammed Ali, Walt Disney, Edison (At least outside the nerd community) all have to fit in there somewhere in addition to politicians.
But if we did a nationwide poll Oprah would probably win :P
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:40:05 AM
MLK, Muhammed Ali, Walt Disney, Edison (At least outside the nerd community) all have to fit in there somewhere in addition to politicians.
But if we did a nationwide poll Oprah would probably win :P
Is Thomas Edison really revered?
MLK and Muhammed Ali suffer a bit because we've a lot of racists
Walt Disney? Do people care about the man or just the empire that he initiated?
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 22, 2016, 03:54:45 AM
The guy who got the capital named after him.
Columbus? :P
We do indeed having many state capitals named after people.
Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2016, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 22, 2016, 03:54:45 AM
The guy who got the capital named after him.
Columbus? :P
We do indeed having many state capitals named after people.
I was making a joke about the District of Columbia there.
Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2016, 08:41:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:40:05 AM
MLK, Muhammed Ali, Walt Disney, Edison (At least outside the nerd community) all have to fit in there somewhere in addition to politicians.
But if we did a nationwide poll Oprah would probably win :P
Is Thomas Edison really revered?
MLK and Muhammed Ali suffer a bit because we've a lot of racists
Walt Disney? Do people care about the man or just the empire that he initiated?
Edison and Disney are (were?) portrayed as our great geniuses who built empires out of nothing. I guess I figured they personified the American Dream(TM) or at least how it has been traditionally understood. Also less controversial than people like Henry Ford.
While he was alive Disney was a super star. Have people really forgotten about him?
I think even racists like Ali and these days they even seem to like MLK a bit, or at least a version of him. I am talking about the casual racists here not the KKK types.
Thought Edison's reputation was a bit tarnished by the cutthroat tactics he employed to crush his business competition. Although I guess that's part of the American Dream(tm) too :hmm: :P
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 08:53:17 AM
Thought Edison's reputation was a bit tarnished by the cutthroat tactics he employed to crush his business competition. Although I guess that's part of the American Dream(tm) too :hmm: :P
Hence why I mentioned outside of the nerd community :P
I see him quoted saying inspirational things as the genius inventor of the Light Bulb and found of GE all the time so I don't know if that sort of thing is generally known.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:50:09 AM
Edison and Disney are (were?) portrayed as our great geniuses who built empires out of nothing. I guess I figured they personified the American Dream(TM) or at least how it has been traditionally understood. Also less controversial than people like Henry Ford.
That's true but I don't know if that means Edison is revered. I'd wager he wouldn't come quick to the mind.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:50:09 AMWhile he was alive Disney was a super star. Have people really forgotten about him?
Well most Americans alive today were not alive when he was alive. :P
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:50:09 AM
I think even racists like Ali and these days they even seem to like MLK a bit, or at least a version of him. I am talking about the casual racists here not the KKK types.
Yeah, that's possible. I do recall seeing a bunch of negative stuff out when Ali died though that could be more media tunnel vision rather than a reflection of many people's thoughts.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:55:17 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 08:53:17 AM
Thought Edison's reputation was a bit tarnished by the cutthroat tactics he employed to crush his business competition. Although I guess that's part of the American Dream(tm) too :hmm: :P
Hence why I mentioned outside of the nerd community :P
I see him quoted saying inspirational things as the genius inventor of the Light Bulb and found of GE all the time so I don't know if that sort of thing is generally known.
While I can think of things that Ford said, can't think of anything from Edison. -_-
Oh I guess I have heard/seen these as dreck that I roll my eyes at.
QuoteGenius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration.
Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.
I'm disappointed that no American has offered Paul Revere as the most revered person yet. :(
Quote from: Syt on September 22, 2016, 08:59:10 AM
I'm disappointed that no American has offered Paul Revere as the most revered person yet. :(
:lol:
Revere suffers from the fact that he became a cliche myth that most people know is not true. What they do not know is that in reality the real Revere was far cooler than the discredited myth.
Well that and he is a pretty distant figure in time, heck even the myth is over 150 years old.
But yes I get the pun :P
Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2016, 08:58:18 AM
Oh I guess I have heard/seen these as dreck that I roll my eyes at.
The most common one I see is 'I have not failed, I have just found 10,000 ways that won't work.'
But seriously google 'Edison Quotes' a ton will show up in that vein. 'Don't give up! Edison didn't and look at how much nerds hate him!'
Ben Franklin? Mark Twain? They hold an humongous share in "quote of the day" Spanish calendars. :hmm:
Plus both of them rock.
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Ben Franklin? Mark Twain? They hold an humongous share in "quote of the day" Spanish calendars. :hmm:
Plus both of them rock.
Oh fuck how could I forget Franklin :lol:
He is actually my favorite American :blush:
Twain is obviously the great American writer.
I was thinking mainly of the 20th century there. Whoops.
Sam Houston
Quote from: FunkMonk on September 22, 2016, 09:11:28 AM
Sam Houston
A great man. A friend (-ish) to the native peoples and a sworn enemy to the lettowists. Pity about the shitty city they named after him.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 09:06:22 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Ben Franklin? Mark Twain? They hold an humongous share in "quote of the day" Spanish calendars. :hmm:
Plus both of them rock.
Oh fuck how could I forget Franklin :lol:
He is actually my favorite American :blush:
Twain is obviously the great American writer.
I was thinking mainly of the 20th century there. Whoops.
I thought of Franklin but wasn't sure if he'd make top 10.
Syt, Paul Revere is missing a d.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 09:13:45 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on September 22, 2016, 09:11:28 AM
Sam Houston
A great man. A friend (-ish) to the native peoples and a sworn enemy to the lettowists. Pity about the shitty city they named after him.
Yup, my favorite part of 7th grade Texas History class.
There are few people in any country's history who are a great business leader, a great civic leader, a great cultural icon, a groundbreaking scientist, and a great political leader all at the same time.
So, CBC did a Greatest Canadian show like so many other countries did.
Top Ten:
10. Wayne Gretzky (meh, fair enough)
9. Alexander Graham Bell (well deserved)
8. Sir John A MacDonald (father of the country, dragged down by drinking and some scandals)
7. Don Cherry (I'm a fan, but come on)
6. Lester Pearson (not a fan, but I can see why he'd rank)
5. David Suzuki (by now it becomes obvious that was a poll of CBC viewers)
4. Sir Frederick Banting
3. Pierre Trudeau :bleeding:
2. Terry Fox
1. Tommy Douglas :bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:
Quote from: Syt on September 22, 2016, 03:01:34 AM
I'm honestly struggling to name "the one German" who's most revered. Luther, and Goethe would certainly make the shortlist, though.
If you consider Einstein a German, it must be him. He's revered worldwide, not just in Germany and is a pop culture icon on top of his gigantic achievements.
I would have thought Luther's Jew hating would create issues.
For the US I'd go Lincoln, Washington, MLK.
In what sense was Einstein not a German?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 22, 2016, 11:29:50 AM
I would have thought Luther's Jew hating would create issues.
For the US I'd go Lincoln, Washington, MLK.
Those guys are the big 3, no doubt.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 11:30:00 AM
In what sense was Einstein not a German?
He didn't want to be a German after 1933 anymore.
And his citizenship history is interesting anyway:
Subject of Kingdom of Württemberg during German Empire (1879–1896)
Stateless (1896–1901)
Citizen of Switzerland (1901–1955)
Austrian subject of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (1911–1912)
Subject of the Kingdom of Prussia during German Empire (1914–1918), German citizen of the Free State of Prussia (Weimar Republic, 1918–1933)
Citizen of United States (1940–1955)
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 11:32:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 11:30:00 AM
In what sense was Einstein not a German?
He didn't want to be a German after 1933 anymore.
Yeah but that is different.
I think DuBois eventually left and renounced the US, but we still consider him a great American. (Edit: ok the truth of that situation is rather more complicated but still)
The US founding fathers are really an exceptional bunch. Two of them were genuine geniuses: Franklin and Hamilton. Washington's character shocked the world. The US also has the happy situation of being able to claim people from other countries as "Great Americans". For instance, Zanza mentioned Einstein as a great German, but the US can also claim him since he left Germany to settle in the US.
I am pretty sure the French claimed Marie Curie, even though she came from Poland.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 11:50:29 AM
I am pretty sure the French claimed Marie Curie, even though she came from Poland.
I just mentioned that earlier in this thread. :P
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 11:52:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 11:50:29 AM
I am pretty sure the French claimed Marie Curie, even though she came from Poland.
I just mentioned that earlier in this thread. :P
I know. I was using that to dispute Raz's claim that this was something unique to the US.
Four countries claim Bell. He's that special:D
Our list had Mozart, Freud, Kopernikus, and Kafka. It did not have Hitler.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 11:53:30 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 11:52:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 11:50:29 AM
I am pretty sure the French claimed Marie Curie, even though she came from Poland.
I just mentioned that earlier in this thread. :P
I know. I was using that to dispute Raz's claim that this was something unique to the US.
Not unique, but the situation is most common in the US.
Ben Franklin is one of those universally revered people I cannot stand.
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 22, 2016, 12:25:16 PM
Ben Franklin is one of those universally revered people I cannot stand.
Long for those days back before electricity huh?
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 22, 2016, 12:25:16 PM
Ben Franklin is one of those universally revered people I cannot stand.
:wacko:
Why is that?
Explain yourself, sir! :mad:
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 11:30:00 AM
In what sense was Einstein not a German?
QuoteIf relativity is proved right the Germans will call me a German, the Swiss will call me a Swiss citizen, and the French will call me a great scientist. If relativity is proved wrong the French will call me a Swiss, the Swiss will call me a German and the Germans will call me a Jew.
- Albert Einstein's 'theory of national identity relativity' :D
The original in German is not as good as the apocryphal one in English. ;)
QuoteNoch eine Art Anwendung des Relativitätsprinzips zum Ergötzen des Lesers: Heute werde ich in Deutschland als "deutscher Gelehrter», in England als «Schweizer Jude»bezeichnet; sollte ich aber einst in die Lage kommen, den Zeitungslesern als «bête noire» präsentiert zu werden, dann wäre ich umgekehrt für die Deutschen ein «Schweizer Jude», für die Engländer ein «deutscher Gelehrter».
I'm not including living people since they're not history yet.
First tier:
Gustavus Adolphus
Carl Linnaeus
Astrid Lindgren
Alfred Nobel
Second tier:
Olof Palme
Dag Hammarskjöld
Ingmar Bergman
Greta Garbo
Charles XII
Unknown to the fucking masses but should be on the list: Anders Chydenius
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 12:44:55 PM
The original in German is not as good as the apocryphal one in English. ;)
QuoteNoch eine Art Anwendung des Relativitätsprinzips zum Ergötzen des Lesers: Heute werde ich in Deutschland als "deutscher Gelehrter», in England als «Schweizer Jude»bezeichnet; sollte ich aber einst in die Lage kommen, den Zeitungslesern als «bête noire» präsentiert zu werden, dann wäre ich umgekehrt für die Deutschen ein «Schweizer Jude», für die Engländer ein «deutscher Gelehrter».
According to wikiquote at least, he stated a similar sentence at different times, with the details different, such as naming different countries (plus no doubt some apocryphal variations).
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
The fact that several variants exist just makes the point funnier, of course. :D
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 12:44:55 PM
The original in German is not as good as the apocryphal one in English. ;)
QuoteNoch eine Art Anwendung des Relativitätsprinzips zum Ergötzen des Lesers: Heute werde ich in Deutschland als "deutscher Gelehrter», in England als «Schweizer Jude»bezeichnet; sollte ich aber einst in die Lage kommen, den Zeitungslesern als «bête noire» präsentiert zu werden, dann wäre ich umgekehrt für die Deutschen ein «Schweizer Jude», für die Engländer ein «deutscher Gelehrter».
What does "Gelehrter" mean?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 22, 2016, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 12:44:55 PM
The original in German is not as good as the apocryphal one in English. ;)
QuoteNoch eine Art Anwendung des Relativitätsprinzips zum Ergötzen des Lesers: Heute werde ich in Deutschland als "deutscher Gelehrter», in England als «Schweizer Jude»bezeichnet; sollte ich aber einst in die Lage kommen, den Zeitungslesern als «bête noire» präsentiert zu werden, dann wäre ich umgekehrt für die Deutschen ein «Schweizer Jude», für die Engländer ein «deutscher Gelehrter».
What does "Gelehrter" mean?
Learned, a scholar.
Hang in there Valmy!
QuoteWow. Ok last time I google Albert Einstein. I had no idea he figured so prominently in planning so many of the international crimes of the Jews :bleeding:
Why do you think our crimes tend to be so successful? :D
Quote from: Malthus on September 22, 2016, 01:01:12 PM
QuoteWow. Ok last time I google Albert Einstein. I had no idea he figured so prominently in planning so many of the international crimes of the Jews :bleeding:
Why do you think our crimes tend to be so successful? :D
:lol:
Good point.
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2016, 12:46:54 PM
I'm not including living people since they're not history yet.
First tier:
Gustavus Adolphus
Carl Linnaeus
Astrid Lindgren
Alfred Nobel
Second tier:
Olof Palme
Dag Hammarskjöld
Ingmar Bergman
Greta Garbo
Charles XII
Unknown to the fucking masses but should be on the list: Anders Chydenius
No Ingrid Bergman? :(
PS: I was about to suggest Dolph Lundgren but he is still alive, as you said.
Success is relative.
Get it? *nudge* *nudge*
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 01:05:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2016, 12:46:54 PM
I'm not including living people since they're not history yet.
First tier:
Gustavus Adolphus
Carl Linnaeus
Astrid Lindgren
Alfred Nobel
Second tier:
Olof Palme
Dag Hammarskjöld
Ingmar Bergman
Greta Garbo
Charles XII
Unknown to the fucking masses but should be on the list: Anders Chydenius
No Ingrid Bergman? :(
She's respected, not revered.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 01:05:06 PM
PS: I was about to suggest Dolph Lundgren but he is still alive, as you said.
ty :)
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:16:33 AM
Also, #22. Fuck this country.
Nigga please. We had Laura Pausini at #6. :facepalm: And she isn't even hot.
Unsurprisingly, Leonardo Da Vinci won easily the contest.
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on September 22, 2016, 01:14:47 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:16:33 AM
Also, #22. Fuck this country.
Nigga please. We had Laura Pausini at #6. :facepalm: And she isn't even hot.
Unsurprisingly, Leonardo Da Vinci won easily the contest.
L.
Who made the silly decision not include Romans? Caesar and Augustus were Italians, no?
George Washington
Ben Franklin
Mark Twain
Frank Lloyd Wright
Elvis
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
Who made the silly decision not include Romans? Caesar and Augustus were Italians, no?
Well the Spanish didn't nominate Hadrian or Trajan either :(
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
Who made the silly decision not include Romans? Caesar and Augustus were Italians, no?
Well the Spanish didn't nominate Hadrian or Trajan either :(
The Syrians didn't nominate Elagabalus. :( Though he may be a contender if they had. :D
Did Israel nominate Jesus? :P
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:35:04 AM
As for Catalans... It's probably King Jaume I (conquered Valencia, Mallorca from the Arabs). He's comfortably the most popular Catalan historic figure, and relatively non-controversial. I guess separatists would pick Lluís Companys, though.
I'd personally vote Salvador Dalí, but I'm a huge fan.
Huh. Jaume was not born nor raised in Catalonia.
Quote from: Iormlund on September 22, 2016, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:35:04 AM
As for Catalans... It's probably King Jaume I (conquered Valencia, Mallorca from the Arabs). He's comfortably the most popular Catalan historic figure, and relatively non-controversial. I guess separatists would pick Lluís Companys, though.
I'd personally vote Salvador Dalí, but I'm a huge fan.
Huh. Jaume was not born nor raised in Catalonia.
He spoke Catalan and was the sovereign of the Catalans - in fact, he was one of the key figures in the development of Catalan as a literary language. Your point?
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 02:14:21 PM
Did Israel nominate Jesus? :P
It would probably be accurate, if the test is for the world.
Somehow, Bibi hasn't edged him out yet in international popularity. :hmm:
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 22, 2016, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:35:04 AM
As for Catalans... It's probably King Jaume I (conquered Valencia, Mallorca from the Arabs). He's comfortably the most popular Catalan historic figure, and relatively non-controversial. I guess separatists would pick Lluís Companys, though.
I'd personally vote Salvador Dalí, but I'm a huge fan.
Huh. Jaume was not born nor raised in Catalonia.
He spoke Catalan and was the sovereign of the Catalans - in fact, he was one of the key figures in the development of Catalan as a literary language. Your point?
I just think it's kind of weird. It's like choosing Carlos I as the most revered Spaniard.
Huh. Who would choose Charles V?
Germans?
Dutch people?
Austrians?
Belgians?
:hmm:
Quote from: Iormlund on September 22, 2016, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 22, 2016, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:35:04 AM
As for Catalans... It's probably King Jaume I (conquered Valencia, Mallorca from the Arabs). He's comfortably the most popular Catalan historic figure, and relatively non-controversial. I guess separatists would pick Lluís Companys, though.
I'd personally vote Salvador Dalí, but I'm a huge fan.
Huh. Jaume was not born nor raised in Catalonia.
He spoke Catalan and was the sovereign of the Catalans - in fact, he was one of the key figures in the development of Catalan as a literary language. Your point?
I just think it's kind of weird. It's like choosing Carlos I as the most revered Spaniard.
Or King Juan Carlos I, who was similarly neither born or raised in Spain :hmm:
I wouldn't choose him either. :P
He did once tell Hugo Chavez to shut up. That was cool.
Quote from: Iormlund on September 22, 2016, 02:44:37 PM
I wouldn't choose him either. :P
Neither would I, but he won the "official" contest so that's why I mention him :P
To be frank, it's not an awful shout. Even if he's tarnished his legacy a bit, at the end of the day in 1977 he gave up power voluntarily. Some of his ancestors - when faced with similar crossroads - sent this county plunging into the abyss. This alone puts him at the top of the pile when it comes to Spanish monarchs.
Quote from: Gups on September 22, 2016, 06:45:34 AM
The top 10 list from a big BBC survey in 2002:
1.Sir Winston Churchill
2.Isambard Kingdom Brunel
3.Diana, Princess of Wales
4.Charles Darwin
5.William Shakespeare
6.Sir Isaac Newton
7.Elizabeth I
8.John Lennon
9.Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson
10.Oliver Cromwell
Apart from Diana and arguably Lennon, it's a decent enough top 10.
Anything that doesn't have Newton at the top is auto-fail, no matter what.
Look revolutionizing science and creating calculus and modern physics is nothing compared to being Lady Diana.
I've heard the name Brunel before (hard to forget Isambard Kingdom once you've heard it), but I really have no idea with he did.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 22, 2016, 03:08:07 PM
I've heard the name Brunel before (hard to forget Isambard Kingdom once you've heard it), but I really have no idea with he did.
Probably the greatest civil engineer in history. Which, granted, isn't saying much.
US list as I think it likely exists:
Washington
Franklin
Jefferson
Lincoln
MLK
How I would rank them
Lincoln
Jefferson
Washington
MLK
Bell
If we get to claim Einstein, he gets in there somewhere.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 03:07:16 PM
Look revolutionizing science and creating calculus and modern physics is nothing compared to being Lady Diana.
No kidding.
I might have Newton as my #1 human being of all time, much less #1 in Britain.
Of course, when it comes to science, Britain certainly tops the list of nations with the greatest scientists. It's kind of obscene how many of the greats were British.
Quote from: Berkut on September 22, 2016, 03:05:29 PM
Quote from: Gups on September 22, 2016, 06:45:34 AM
The top 10 list from a big BBC survey in 2002:
1.Sir Winston Churchill
2.Isambard Kingdom Brunel
3.Diana, Princess of Wales
4.Charles Darwin
5.William Shakespeare
6.Sir Isaac Newton
7.Elizabeth I
8.John Lennon
9.Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson
10.Oliver Cromwell
Apart from Diana and arguably Lennon, it's a decent enough top 10.
Anything that doesn't have Newton at the top is auto-fail, no matter what.
I think part of the problem with that list was how it was marshalled and presented by the BBC, they had some odd thing like the top 100 already nominated, then the ten leaders each had a programme dedicated to them which was fronted by a celebrity.
Hence IKB made a strong showing because Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson fronted it, I forget who did Diana but they did a good enough job to persuade their votes.
I agree with you about Newton, certainly top three if you drop Diana, Lennon and demote Churchill a few places.
Possibly stick in a social reformer or campaigner, maybe Bazalgette deserves a place or one of the medical researchers.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 22, 2016, 03:08:07 PM
I've heard the name Brunel before (hard to forget Isambard Kingdom once you've heard it), but I really have no idea with he did.
Built modern society. Literally. :D
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 02:37:50 PM
Huh. Who would choose Charles V?
Germans?
Dutch people?
Austrians?
Belgians?
:hmm:
Why would anybody consider him to be one of their greatest though? I mean he is an important historical figure, but "revered"?
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 02:37:50 PM
Huh. Who would choose Charles V?
Germans?
Dutch people?
Austrians?
Belgians?
:hmm:
Why would anybody consider him to be one of their greatest though? I mean he is an important historical figure, but "revered"?
He was actually in the list for the Greatest Spaniards. Pretty low, though, at #28.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 02:37:50 PM
Huh. Who would choose Charles V?
Germans?
Dutch people?
Austrians?
Belgians?
:hmm:
Who would choose Charles V?
Depends on among which group in each nation: Gods, women, men, or horses. :D
QuoteI speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse.
He's seen in a good light over here. For his 500 birthday they had a lot of events.
There are also lots of folktales about him. Guess he was the symbol of the good old times for the Catholics in the Southern Netherlands. During and after the eighty years war
Quote from: Zanza on September 22, 2016, 03:51:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 02:37:50 PM
Huh. Who would choose Charles V?
Germans?
Dutch people?
Austrians?
Belgians?
:hmm:
Why would anybody consider him to be one of their greatest though? I mean he is an important historical figure, but "revered"?
Spanish Empire nostalgics.
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 02:41:11 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 22, 2016, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 22, 2016, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 03:35:04 AM
As for Catalans... It's probably King Jaume I (conquered Valencia, Mallorca from the Arabs). He's comfortably the most popular Catalan historic figure, and relatively non-controversial. I guess separatists would pick Lluís Companys, though.
I'd personally vote Salvador Dalí, but I'm a huge fan.
Huh. Jaume was not born nor raised in Catalonia.
He spoke Catalan and was the sovereign of the Catalans - in fact, he was one of the key figures in the development of Catalan as a literary language. Your point?
I just think it's kind of weird. It's like choosing Carlos I as the most revered Spaniard.
Or King Juan Carlos I, who was similarly neither born or raised in Spain :hmm:
Just because he spent a lot of time in Estoril does not mean he is Portuguese. Chillax, you can keep him :P
The guy who wrote Gor.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 09:06:22 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Ben Franklin? Mark Twain? They hold an humongous share in "quote of the day" Spanish calendars. :hmm:
Plus both of them rock.
Oh fuck how could I forget Franklin :lol:
He is actually my favorite American :blush:
Probably mine, too. I remember we had a thread a long time ago asking who was the most quintessentially "American" American, and I argued for Franklin.
Despite some of his faults, I would Teddy Roosevelt on our list.
And, of course...Harambe.
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:50:09 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2016, 08:41:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:40:05 AM
MLK, Muhammed Ali, Walt Disney, Edison (At least outside the nerd community) all have to fit in there somewhere in addition to politicians.
But if we did a nationwide poll Oprah would probably win :P
Is Thomas Edison really revered?
MLK and Muhammed Ali suffer a bit because we've a lot of racists
Walt Disney? Do people care about the man or just the empire that he initiated?
Edison and Disney are (were?) portrayed as our great geniuses who built empires out of nothing. I guess I figured they personified the American Dream(TM) or at least how it has been traditionally understood. Also less controversial than people like Henry Ford.
While he was alive Disney was a super star. Have people really forgotten about him?
I think even racists like Ali and these days they even seem to like MLK a bit, or at least a version of him. I am talking about the casual racists here not the KKK types.
I've been very surprised how many Korean kids know Edison.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 23, 2016, 12:42:47 AM
I've been very surprised how many Korean kids know Edison.
Every kid in Hong Kong knows Edison. He is regarded as a positive role model of hard work and ingenuity.
When I was a kid he was pushed as a role model in schools too. It's not like we Spaniards have many prolific inventors to draw on. :hmm:
Quote from: celedhring on September 23, 2016, 01:35:49 AM
When I was a kid he was pushed as a role model in schools too. It's not like we Spaniards have many prolific inventors to draw on. :hmm:
Well, Torquemada was very inventive, I hear. :P
Quote from: Syt on September 22, 2016, 03:01:34 AM
As opposed to reviled. In 2003 a German TV show polled Germans with this result (ranked 1 - 10).
Konrad Adenauer
Martin Luther
Karl Marx
Sophie und Hans Scholl
Willy Brandt
Johann Sebastian Bach
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Johannes Gutenberg
Otto von Bismarck
Albert Einstein
I'm honestly struggling to name "the one German" who's most revered. Luther, and Goethe would certainly make the shortlist, though.
Hmm.
D'Iberville.
Frontenac.
Antoine Labelle.
Jean Lesage.
René Lévesque.
Lucien Bouchard.
Quote from: viper37 on September 23, 2016, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 22, 2016, 03:01:34 AM
As opposed to reviled. In 2003 a German TV show polled Germans with this result (ranked 1 - 10).
Konrad Adenauer
Martin Luther
Karl Marx
Sophie und Hans Scholl
Willy Brandt
Johann Sebastian Bach
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Johannes Gutenberg
Otto von Bismarck
Albert Einstein
I'm honestly struggling to name "the one German" who's most revered. Luther, and Goethe would certainly make the shortlist, though.
Hmm.
D'Iberville.
Frontenac.
Antoine Labelle.
Jean Lesage.
René Lévesque.
Lucien Bouchard.
According to the Liberals, it is our current Prime Minister! :lol:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/justin-trudeau-is-now-the-most-prominent-and-popular-politician-on-the-planet-dion-says
That ought to make you happy. :D
Roger Federer advertises pretty much every product here.
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 01:32:40 PM
Roger Federer advertises pretty much every product here.
I think I saw a shop advertising kitchen appliances with him when I was in Zug earlier this month.
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 01:32:40 PM
Roger Federer advertises pretty much every product here.
Tampons?
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 01:32:40 PM
Roger Federer advertises pretty much every product here.
So I guess William Tell has finally been supplanted :(
Quote from: Malthus on September 23, 2016, 09:47:32 AM
That ought to make you happy. :D
I want to vomit.
If at least, it convinces people to follow politics, it's a good thing though, I'll admit that.
Quote from: Gups on September 22, 2016, 06:45:34 AM
The top 10 list from a big BBC survey in 2002:
1.Sir Winston Churchill
2.Isambard Kingdom Brunel
3.Diana, Princess of Wales
4.Charles Darwin
5.William Shakespeare
6.Sir Isaac Newton
7.Elizabeth I
8.John Lennon
9.Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson
10.Oliver Cromwell
Apart from Diana and arguably Lennon, it's a decent enough top 10.
No JM Keynes. Total and utter fail.
Also Aquinas and William of Ockham should make the top 10.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
Also Aquinas and William of Ockham should make the top 10.
The English list? :hmm:
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
William of Ockham should make the top 10.
His razor suggests it is just because he lived so long ago. I bet Alfred the Great would have been #1 back in the 10th century.
Quote from: celedhring on September 23, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
The English list? :hmm:
:lol:
Starting to show the symptoms of age.
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
His razor suggests it is just because he lived so long ago. I bet Alfred the Great would have been #1 back in the 10th century.
Alfred's not a bad choice either.
Ockham is pretty important in both philosophy and political theory. I'd flip your point around and argue his exclusion is due to recency bias.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2016, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
His razor suggests it is just because he lived so long ago. I bet Alfred the Great would have been #1 back in the 10th century.
Alfred's not a bad choice either.
I'd put Alfred on the list. Defeated the "hard pagan" Viking invaders (and helped at least some of them settle down to become civilized neighbors after beating 'em), helped re-invigorate basic literacy, founded many of what became English towns.
The trifecta of civilization (defense against barbarians, literacy, urbanism). Not a bad set of accomplishments. :)
Astrid Lindgren?
Quote from: celedhring on September 23, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
Also Aquinas and William of Ockham should make the top 10.
The English list? :hmm:
Hey, I got a question: Is Averroes considered a great Spaniard?
Quote from: Razgovory on September 25, 2016, 08:21:31 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 23, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
Also Aquinas and William of Ockham should make the top 10.
The English list? :hmm:
Hey, I got a question: Is Averroes considered a great Spaniard?
No. And in my old textbooks they even cheekily tried to claim Trajan and Hadrian as kinda-Spanish, but no luck for dirty mooselimb thinkers.
Quote from: celedhring on September 26, 2016, 01:42:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 25, 2016, 08:21:31 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 23, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
Also Aquinas and William of Ockham should make the top 10.
The English list? :hmm:
Hey, I got a question: Is Averroes considered a great Spaniard?
No. And in my old textbooks they even cheekily tried to claim Trajan and Hadrian as kinda-Spanish, but no luck for dirty mooselimb thinkers.
Really? I seem to recall him being mentioned as one of the great figures of Al-Andalus. :hmm:
When I visited Cordoba they had a plaque and a little square commemorating Maimonides. So there's that.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2016, 11:17:41 AM
When I visited Cordoba they had a plaque and a little square commemorating Maimonides. So there's that.
Jewish though. :contract: We officially regret our nasty business with the Jews, but we don't officially regret kicking out the Muslims. So Jewish great men get plaques and squares, while Muslims get their severed heads in our heraldry.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Festaticos01.elmundo.es%2Felmundo%2Fimagenes%2F2004%2F10%2F17%2F1098030014_0.jpg&hash=b1cfb90f3e1637a2d023825bbbdf05c85980bfc1)
Al-Andalus was absolutely glossed over when I went to school.
George Washington
Ronald Reagan
Donald Trump
You know it came to me today.
The most revered person in Canadian history is Terry Fox.
I don't think it can even be argued.
King
FDR
Franklin
Quote from: Barrister on September 26, 2016, 10:59:16 PM
You know it came to me today.
The most revered person in Canadian history is Terry Fox.
I don't think it can even be argued.
Who?
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 27, 2016, 01:04:46 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 26, 2016, 10:59:16 PM
You know it came to me today.
The most revered person in Canadian history is Terry Fox.
I don't think it can even be argued.
Who?
Terry Fox. He says so right there in his post :rolleyes:
Quote from: Siege on September 26, 2016, 05:26:49 PM
Donald Trump
I totally understand. Trump has been accused of raping an underage girl.
Quote from: Gups on September 27, 2016, 08:18:06 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 27, 2016, 01:04:46 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 26, 2016, 10:59:16 PM
You know it came to me today.
The most revered person in Canadian history is Terry Fox.
I don't think it can even be argued.
Who?
Terry Fox. He says so right there in his post :rolleyes:
I think he was attempting to point out that Terry Fox wasn't (as) well known in Quebec, that reverence for him was mainly an English-Canadian phenomenon.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2016, 08:52:23 AM
I think he was attempting to point out that Terry Fox wasn't (as) well known in Quebec, that reverence for him was mainly an English-Canadian phenomenon.
Yep. And thus, perfectly arguable.
That being said, I remember him being promoted / celebrated in the 1980s in Quebec, but it was for a brief moment. I genuinely wonder whether it is a generational thing (I figure BB and I are of similar age), but I imagine Terry Fox's memory is perhaps maintained more actively (textbooks, cultural references, ads, toponyms, etc) in English Canada than it is in Quebec.
Fox's marathon part in Quebec totally went unnoticed.