Who is the most revered person in your country's history?

Started by Syt, September 22, 2016, 03:01:34 AM

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garbon

Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 06:52:47 AM
I can easily see Napoleon being a controversial figure to a degree within France. Those comedians are probably loved by all, even if much more irrelevant.

Yeah, I can see that too and would probably feel the same.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

The Larch

#31
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 06:52:47 AM
I can easily see Napoleon being a controversial figure to a degree within France. Those comedians are probably loved by all, even if much more irrelevant.

I'm sure that Napoleon is not an universally beloved figure in France, and that those comedians are way more uncontroversial, but if you do these kind of lists properly you also have to consider relevance and impact, and those guys rank pretty low on that. It's not that I think that Napoleon should be #1, De Gaulle is and I can see why, although he must also be a controversial figure, and there are a bunch of luminaries at the top (Pasteur, Curie, Moliere, Victor Hugo) that nobody would argue against them being there, but those guys are not simply ahead of Napoleon, others are and I have no problem with that, it's that they're at almost the very top of the list (Coluche is #5, Bourvil is #7), and that makes no sense.

It can be seen each of these lists' bias, though, and the French one seems to be biased against the "Great Leader" historical kind of figures, besides De Gaulle. Napoleon is #16, Charlemagne is #22, Joan of Arc is #31, Louis XIV is #50, while they are biased in favour of cultural ones.

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 06:49:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2016, 06:35:34 AM
Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM
Seeing the lists from other countries gives some funny results.

In the Greatest Frenchmen one Napoleon only came at #16, behind a bunch of comedians that nobody outside of France has ever heard of. De Gaulle topped that one, followed by Pasteur. Marie Curie was at #4, I wonder if he would have finished as high in a similar poll in Poland.

You are a bit harsh, a bit ignorant or maybe of the wrong generation. Remember, it is from 2005  :P Fernandel is famous abroad for the Don Camillo series. As for Bourvil, his most famous role abroad might actuallybe a dramatic one in Le Cercle Rouge. Classic noir by Melville. Or is it nowadays only known by cinephiles like Savonarola?  :hmm: Ide knows and probably reviewed that movie.
Coluche is well remembered for his humanitarian association, though perhaps more in France unlike his movies which were exported.

Kind of disappointed that De Funés ended after Napoleon though.  :lol: Or is i another unknown, reserved for the likes of Savonarola? I guess Spanish dubbing does not help too.

Preto, please. Coluche, Bourvil, Pagnol and Fernandel ahead of Napoleon is a travestry. Out of those the only one who rings a bell for me is Fernandel, but marginally. It's not that I don't think that they don't deserve to be there, is that they're barely known outside of France.

First
Preto is a pretty poor translation of Nigga, sorry.  :P

Second, as said even by the wiki link
QuoteThe show was criticized by some historians in that it focused only on personalities of recent French history. Key figures of French history who contributed to the founding of the French nation, such as the national heroine Joan of Arc, the kings Philip Augustus, Saint Louis, and Louis XIV or French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte were largely ignored.

There lies the major problem. Robespierre, like him or not, should be way higher on the list.

Pagnol is one of the major French novelists so he fits perfectly. Just because movies adapted from his books were badly dubbed or distributed in Spain is no excuse. You also find La Fontaine and Jules Verne before Napoleon, now do not tell me they are not famous abroad, at least for Verne.

Plus, what said celedhring, kind of controversial un-PC nowadays.

Maladict

Quote from: The Larch on September 22, 2016, 05:58:15 AM

Pim Fortuyn topped the Best Dutch one.  :bleeding:

He topped it but it turned out to have been a mistake in counting votes. William of Orange won by a fair margin.
Still embarrassing though :Embarrass:

Although apart from Fortuyn it's a decent list:

1   Pim Fortuyn [later demoted to second place]
2   Willem van Oranje  [later promoted to first place]
3   Willem Drees
4   Antoni van Leeuwenhoek
5   Desiderius Erasmus
6   Johan Cruijff
7   Michiel de Ruyter
8   Anne Frank
9   Rembrandt van Rijn
10   Vincent van Gogh

Valmy

MLK, Muhammed Ali, Walt Disney, Edison (At least outside the nerd community) all have to fit in there somewhere in addition to politicians.

But if we did a nationwide poll Oprah would probably win :P
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:40:05 AM
MLK, Muhammed Ali, Walt Disney, Edison (At least outside the nerd community) all have to fit in there somewhere in addition to politicians.

But if we did a nationwide poll Oprah would probably win :P

Is Thomas Edison really revered?
MLK and Muhammed Ali suffer a bit because we've a lot of racists
Walt Disney? Do people care about the man or just the empire that he initiated?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2016, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 22, 2016, 03:54:45 AM
The guy who got the capital named after him.

Columbus? :P

We do indeed having many state capitals named after people.

I was making a joke about the District of Columbia there.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2016, 08:41:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:40:05 AM
MLK, Muhammed Ali, Walt Disney, Edison (At least outside the nerd community) all have to fit in there somewhere in addition to politicians.

But if we did a nationwide poll Oprah would probably win :P

Is Thomas Edison really revered?
MLK and Muhammed Ali suffer a bit because we've a lot of racists
Walt Disney? Do people care about the man or just the empire that he initiated?

Edison and Disney are (were?) portrayed as our great geniuses who built empires out of nothing. I guess I figured they personified the American Dream(TM) or at least how it has been traditionally understood. Also less controversial than people like Henry Ford.

While he was alive Disney was a super star. Have people really forgotten about him?

I think even racists like Ali and these days they even seem to like MLK a bit, or at least a version of him. I am talking about the casual racists here not the KKK types.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

celedhring

Thought Edison's reputation was a bit tarnished by the cutthroat tactics he employed to crush his business competition. Although I guess that's part of the American Dream(tm) too  :hmm: :P

Valmy

Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 08:53:17 AM
Thought Edison's reputation was a bit tarnished by the cutthroat tactics he employed to crush his business competition. Although I guess that's part of the American Dream(tm) too  :hmm: :P

Hence why I mentioned outside of the nerd community :P

I see him quoted saying inspirational things as the genius inventor of the Light Bulb and found of GE all the time so I don't know if that sort of thing is generally known.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:50:09 AM
Edison and Disney are (were?) portrayed as our great geniuses who built empires out of nothing. I guess I figured they personified the American Dream(TM) or at least how it has been traditionally understood. Also less controversial than people like Henry Ford.

That's true but I don't know if that means Edison is revered. I'd wager he wouldn't come quick to the mind.

Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:50:09 AMWhile he was alive Disney was a super star. Have people really forgotten about him?

Well most Americans alive today were not alive when he was alive. :P

Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:50:09 AM
I think even racists like Ali and these days they even seem to like MLK a bit, or at least a version of him. I am talking about the casual racists here not the KKK types.

Yeah, that's possible. I do recall seeing a bunch of negative stuff out when Ali died though that could be more media tunnel vision rather than a reflection of many people's thoughts.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2016, 08:55:17 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 22, 2016, 08:53:17 AM
Thought Edison's reputation was a bit tarnished by the cutthroat tactics he employed to crush his business competition. Although I guess that's part of the American Dream(tm) too  :hmm: :P

Hence why I mentioned outside of the nerd community :P

I see him quoted saying inspirational things as the genius inventor of the Light Bulb and found of GE all the time so I don't know if that sort of thing is generally known.

While I can think of things that Ford said, can't think of anything from Edison. -_-
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.