Languish.org

General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Sheilbh on February 03, 2015, 08:27:24 AM

Title: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Sheilbh on February 03, 2015, 08:27:24 AM
QuoteSalvadoran priest 'a martyr' - Pope
Breaking news
Pope Francis approves martyrdom status for murdered Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero paving way for beatification

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2015, 08:28:16 AM
INVICTUS
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Tamas on February 03, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
I can finally get some sleep tonight then.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 10:32:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 03, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
I can finally get some sleep tonight then.

Yep.  This is big news:  a long-dead man gets a meaningless title from the leader of a a brand of superstition.  Maybe in the future the long-dead guy will get another meaningless title?  :worthy:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2015, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 10:32:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 03, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
I can finally get some sleep tonight then.

Yep.  This is big news:  a long-dead man gets a meaningless title from the leader of a a brand of superstition.  Maybe in the future the long-dead guy will get another meaningless title?  :worthy:

What has got you all snippy?
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2015, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 10:32:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 03, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
I can finally get some sleep tonight then.

Yep.  This is big news:  a long-dead man gets a meaningless title from the leader of a a brand of superstition.  Maybe in the future the long-dead guy will get another meaningless title?  :worthy:

What has got you all snippy?

I've always been a bit snippy about people celebrating silly things (see first post). Oscar Romero was or wasn't a martyr based on his own motives and actions, not on some post-hoc declaration by a church official 35 years later.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: derspiess on February 03, 2015, 01:33:18 PM
Harsh.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2015, 01:37:07 PM
And I'm the one that gets called a bitch. <_<
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 01:55:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2015, 01:33:18 PM
Harsh.

Not really.  Is Romero really more of a martyr today than he was a week ago?
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 01:55:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2015, 01:37:07 PM
And I'm the one that gets called a bitch. <_<

Yes.  Your point?  :P
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2015, 02:25:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 01:09:10 PM
I've always been a bit snippy about people celebrating silly things (see first post). Oscar Romero was or wasn't a martyr based on his own motives and actions, not on some post-hoc declaration by a church official 35 years later.

So if a scientist wins a Nobel Prize it is stupid to celebrate that since their worthiness as a scientist is based on his or her own motives and actions?  I guess I don't get why honoring somebody for something is worthy of scorn.  In fact I fail to see one logical or rational reason why this would be an issue.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2015, 02:35:32 PM
Depends, V.  Did the scientist create a vaccine?
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2015, 02:25:39 PM
So if a scientist wins a Nobel Prize it is stupid to celebrate that since their worthiness as a scientist is based on his or her own motives and actions?  I guess I don't get why honoring somebody for something is worthy of scorn.  In fact I fail to see one logical or rational reason why this would be an issue.

Your analogy is Marty-esque.  A better analogy is that a scientist does Nobel-prize-winning research and, 35 years later, the Speaker of the House declares that he is "a scientist."  Would you really go  :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: over that?  I agree that there is no logical or rational reason why the Pope's statement would be an issue or post-worthy.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2015, 02:38:05 PM
Grumbler is just bitter about the whole "death squad" thing.  He served in a "Death Squad" in the Vendee and gets touchy about people who criticize them.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2015, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
I agree that there is no logical or rational reason why the Pope's statement would be an issue or post-worthy.

Because there are a billion or so people who at least...supposedly care about what the Pope has to say?
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Martinus on February 03, 2015, 02:41:07 PM
grumbler is stupid, film at 11.

It marks an important shift in the Catholic Church politics, so for people who consider themselves catholic or are otherwise affected by catholicism (e.g. because they live in a catholic country), this is a big thing.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
Good for Cesar Romero.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:46:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2015, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
I agree that there is no logical or rational reason why the Pope's statement would be an issue or post-worthy.

Because there are a billion or so people who at least...supposedly care about what the Pope has to say?

Because... what? Did the Pope said something today but spoke not a word yesterday or the day? I mean, there wasn't a thread about the Pope speaking yesterday, and there wasn't one the day before...
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2015, 02:50:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
Good for Cesar Romero.

:lol: 

(https://33.media.tumblr.com/1ae570c2de1e45f7fca6a37ab273ac67/tumblr_n3ffbwFsPg1toh278o2_500.gif)
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 03, 2015, 02:41:07 PM
grumbler is stupid, film at 11.

It marks an important shift in the Catholic Church politics, so for people who consider themselves catholic or are otherwise affected by catholicism (e.g. because they live in a catholic country), this is a big thing.
Marty is a moron, film at 11 (see, I can play that kindergarten game, too)

Why?  How is their life different today?  What effect does this statement have on their lives?  Just saying it was important because people say it was important doesn't make it important.  This sounds like the rationale people use for posting about the Karadashians or Hiltons:  "it's important because people talk aout it, and people talk about it because it is important."
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: derspiess on February 03, 2015, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 01:55:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2015, 01:33:18 PM
Harsh.

Not really.  Is Romero really more of a martyr today than he was a week ago?

For Catholics he apparently is.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2015, 02:51:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:46:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2015, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
I agree that there is no logical or rational reason why the Pope's statement would be an issue or post-worthy.

Because there are a billion or so people who at least...supposedly care about what the Pope has to say?

Because... what? Did the Pope said something today but spoke not a word yesterday or the day? I mean, there wasn't a thread about the Pope speaking yesterday, and there wasn't one the day before...

Oh on that front, answer is because Sheilbh found it interesting. :)
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Martinus on February 03, 2015, 02:56:17 PM
The fact is, the Catholic Church has originally sided with the man's killers. By making a leftist liberation theology bishop, murdered by right wing guerrilla, a saint/martyr, this marks a huge shift in Catholic policy.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: derspiess on February 03, 2015, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2015, 02:50:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
Good for Cesar Romero.

:lol: 

(https://33.media.tumblr.com/1ae570c2de1e45f7fca6a37ab273ac67/tumblr_n3ffbwFsPg1toh278o2_500.gif)

Plus he got to sniff Carmen Miranda's bare cooch.  Which was wasted on him, I guess.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2015, 03:04:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2015, 02:58:24 PM
Plus he got to sniff Carmen Miranda's bare cooch.  Which was wasted on him, I guess.

Oh yeah;  hell, even his closet had a dressing room star on it.

QuoteMarlene Dietrich was quoted as observing that Romero was, "the undisputed queen of homosexuals. I don't think there was a gay actor in all Hollywood who hadn't been there."[10]

:lol:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2015, 04:22:30 PM
Catholics think they're eating the actual body of Christ. I would classify them as fairly gullible.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2015, 04:24:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 03, 2015, 04:22:30 PM
Catholics think they're eating the actual body of Christ. I would classify them as fairly gullible.

Actually, since they really don't think that, I'd classify you as even more gullible.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2015, 05:29:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
Your analogy is Marty-esque.

Not really.  They are both recognition that something somebody did is worthy of being honored.

QuoteA better analogy is that a scientist does Nobel-prize-winning research and, 35 years later, the Speaker of the House declares that he is "a scientist."

It is not uncommon for research to win the prize decades later.  Well ok, it is kind of uncommon but not unheard of.

QuoteWould you really go  :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: over that?

Depends.

QuoteI agree that there is no logical or rational reason why the Pope's statement would be an issue or post-worthy.

Same as why anybody being honored for anything anywhere would be post-worthy.  I do not get your beef here.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2015, 02:50:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
Good for Cesar Romero.

:lol: 

(https://33.media.tumblr.com/1ae570c2de1e45f7fca6a37ab273ac67/tumblr_n3ffbwFsPg1toh278o2_500.gif)

Saved.  :lol:

I'll use that in other forums. :shifty:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: frunk on February 03, 2015, 05:36:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2015, 05:29:45 PM
It is not uncommon for research to win the prize decades later.  Well ok, it is kind of uncommon but not unheard of.

Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_Prize_for_Engineering)
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2015, 05:48:38 PM
It will be mine, oh yes.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Sheilbh on February 03, 2015, 07:05:13 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 03, 2015, 02:56:17 PM
The fact is, the Catholic Church has originally sided with the man's killers. By making a leftist liberation theology bishop, murdered by right wing guerrilla, a saint/martyr, this marks a huge shift in Catholic policy.
This matters more than 'who am I to judge?' And I doubt we'll have a European Pope in my lifetime again (cue 5 Italian Popes in a row) which I think'll only make this shift more permanent.

And Santo Romero! :w00t: :wub:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcathnews.co.nz%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2Foscar-romero-e1373505717540.jpg&hash=08615adf9efa78c72b3b6fce77222f184a26a39f)
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 07:15:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2015, 05:29:45 PM

Not really.  They are both recognition that something somebody did is worthy of being honored.

They are both acknowledgements that are so late as to be meaningless.  Romero was a martyr when he was killed.  The fact that the Pope recognized this thirty-five years later seems a strange thing to celebrate, but if it means that much to you, i suppose I will just have to acknowledge that people are weird, and move on.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2015, 09:44:03 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
Good for Cesar Romero.

George Romero doesn't approve though.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 09:45:30 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 03, 2015, 09:44:03 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
Good for Cesar Romero.

George Romero doesn't approve though.

He is a hack.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: DGuller on February 03, 2015, 10:43:39 PM
Man, I'd hate to be gunned down by death squads with people like grumbler around.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Martinus on February 04, 2015, 01:06:42 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2015, 10:43:39 PM
Man, I'd hate to be gunned down by death squads with people like grumbler around.

FYPFY
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:12:39 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2015, 10:43:39 PM
Man, I'd hate to be gunned down by death squads with people like grumbler around.

Without me around, you'd have to wait 35 years after your death to be recognized as a martyr.  I suppose that would be good, from your standpoint. 

With me around, your martyrdom would be recognized as soon as everyone recovered from the celebrations.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:13:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 04, 2015, 01:06:42 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2015, 10:43:39 PM
Man, I'd hate to be gunned down by death squads with people like grumbler around.

FYPFY

0/10:  try for jokes that are not gibberish next time.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 07:18:24 AM
grumbler is a noted atheist and Cromwellian.  Anybody who hates the Fighting Irish as much as he does wouldn't give two shits about liberation theology, either.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 04, 2015, 07:20:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:12:39 AM
With me around, your martyrdom would be recognized as soon as everyone recovered from the celebrations.

I don't think you're nearly so infamous as all that. Most people will neither celebrate your passing nor recognize guller's sacrifice.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:30:29 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 07:18:24 AM
grumbler is a noted atheist and Cromwellian.  Anybody who hates the Fighting Irish as much as he does wouldn't give two shits about liberation theology, either.

Au contraire.  My point is that I recognized Romero as a martyr 30 years ago.  The Pope is just incredibly late in his recognition.  He isn't wrong.  And liberation theology is just about the only (even unofficial) Catholic doctrine that makes any sense.  I am not 100% behind it, but I can see its logic, unlike, say, transubstantiation.

It is interesting how people can ignore my actual, clearly stated points in favor of what they think I would say.

Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:31:56 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 04, 2015, 07:20:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:12:39 AM
With me around, your martyrdom would be recognized as soon as everyone recovered from the celebrations.

I don't think you're nearly so infamous as all that. Most people will neither celebrate your passing nor recognize guller's sacrifice.

:huh:

Maybe you should only quote and respond to sentences you can understand.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 07:34:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:30:29 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 07:18:24 AM
grumbler is a noted atheist and Cromwellian.  Anybody who hates the Fighting Irish as much as he does wouldn't give two shits about liberation theology, either.

Au contraire.  My point is that I recognized Romero as a martyr 30 years ago.  The Pope is just incredibly late in his recognition.  He isn't wrong.  And liberation theology is just about the only (even unofficial) Catholic doctrine that makes any sense.  I am not 100% behind it, but I can see its logic, unlike, say, transubstantiation.

It is interesting how people can ignore my actual, clearly stated points in favor of what they think I would say.

This Pope just got here;  the recognition is late because the last two Popes, Johnny the Deuce and Emperor Palpatine, were anti-Romero.  Don't hate the player because the game was rigged by the last two league commissioners.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: DGuller on February 04, 2015, 08:03:10 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 04, 2015, 07:20:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:12:39 AM
With me around, your martyrdom would be recognized as soon as everyone recovered from the celebrations.

I don't think you're nearly so infamous as all that. Most people will neither celebrate your passing nor recognize guller's sacrifice.
:lol:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: DGuller on February 04, 2015, 08:06:32 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:31:56 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 04, 2015, 07:20:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:12:39 AM
With me around, your martyrdom would be recognized as soon as everyone recovered from the celebrations.

I don't think you're nearly so infamous as all that. Most people will neither celebrate your passing nor recognize guller's sacrifice.

:huh:

Maybe you should only quote and respond to sentences you can understand.
:console:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 08:33:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 07:34:51 AM
This Pope just got here;  the recognition is late because the last two Popes, Johnny the Deuce and Emperor Palpatine, were anti-Romero.  Don't hate the player because the game was rigged by the last two league commissioners.

I am not blaming anyone.  I am noting the non-monumentalism of recognizing a fact 35 years late.  Shieldh would be better off to :w00t: about the fact that the Catholic Church recognizes that the earth revolves around the sun.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: garbon on February 04, 2015, 09:34:06 AM
Always lovely to see someone telling you what you should or shouldn't be excited about.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Ed Anger on February 04, 2015, 09:54:31 AM
I'm enjoying this Darth Grumbler phase.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Siege on February 04, 2015, 10:58:49 AM
Who the fuck was Oscar Romero?
Was he one of those communist priests like the pope?
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2015, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 07:30:29 AM
  I am not 100% behind it, but I can see its logic, unlike, say, transubstantiation.

That's more metaphysics than logic. :contract: :nerd:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 11:07:20 AM
Don't you Jews have anything better to do this morning, like murdering somebody's savior or something? 
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Tamas on February 04, 2015, 11:08:02 AM
So conclusion is that a South American leftist Pope does stuff to recognise the South American leftist Catholic traditions as cool. No wonder it came as a shock to people.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2015, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 11:07:20 AM
Don't you Jews have anything better to do this morning, like murdering somebody's savior or something?

See this is what we get for trying to rescue your confused theology from itself.
And this is what the Church gets for trying to teach you Irish barbarians.  Aquinas isn't just the name of a high school basketball team; read the books, for Yeshua Not Christ's sake.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2015, 11:14:15 AM
Aquinas isn't just the name of a high school basketball team; read the books, for Yeshua Not Christ's sake.

:lol:  Fucking prep school conferences.   :mad:
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Valmy on February 04, 2015, 11:41:30 AM
Quote from: Siege on February 04, 2015, 10:58:49 AM
Who the fuck was Oscar Romero?
Was he one of those communist priests like the pope?

Pretty much.

But then anybody who is not an anarchist is basically a communist to you.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Martinus on February 04, 2015, 11:54:27 AM
Catholic communists must be Siege's favourites. :P
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: The Brain on February 04, 2015, 12:30:33 PM
I don't get Catholic priests. If I learned that the organization I worked for was a huge pedophile ring I would quit my job instantly. But Catholic priests react... differently.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Siege on February 04, 2015, 12:36:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 04, 2015, 12:30:33 PM
I don't get Catholic priests. If I learned that the organization I worked for was a huge pedophile ring I would quit my job instantly. But Catholic priests react... differently.

They don't believe in freedom of choice.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 03:23:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2015, 09:34:06 AM
Always lovely to see someone telling you what you should or shouldn't be excited about.
Always lovely to see people respond to posts before reading them.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Valmy on February 04, 2015, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2015, 07:15:29 PM

They are both acknowledgements that are so late as to be meaningless.  Romero was a martyr when he was killed.  The fact that the Pope recognized this thirty-five years later seems a strange thing to celebrate, but if it means that much to you, i suppose I will just have to acknowledge that people are weird, and move on.

Packer fans are pushing for Jerry Kramer to be in the Hall of Fame and he retired over 40 years ago.  If he got in he and they would be happy.  Not sure why that is weird.

In fact it seems irrational and bizarre to call that weird.  That is completely normal.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: The Brain on February 04, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
You're completely normal!

No wait that didn't come out right.
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: Valmy on February 04, 2015, 04:28:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 04, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
You're completely normal!

No, YOU!
Title: Re: Oscar Romero: Martyr
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2015, 08:13:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 04, 2015, 03:32:39 PM
Packer fans are pushing for Jerry Kramer to be in the Hall of Fame and he retired over 40 years ago.  If he got in he and they would be happy.  Not sure why that is weird.

In fact it seems irrational and bizarre to call that weird.  That is completely normal.
So you think that getting into the Hall of Fame is the football equivalent of being martyred?  Weird.