Said by a German author, who's just returned from the Islamic State territory; a sterling piece of journalism from him and his son, especially given the murders of journalists by IS terrorists.
The video footage and the whole article are well worth a full viewing and reading:
Quote
Rare Islamic State visit reveals 'brutal and strong' force
By Caroline Hawley and James Longman
World Affairs Unit, BBC News
A German author given rare access to territory run by Islamic State has told the BBC that the group is stronger, more brutal and harder to confront than he had expected.
Juergen Todenhoefer spent six days in the IS city of Mosul in Iraq, travelling there via Raqqa, in Syria.
Mr Todenhoefer said he found IS followers highly motivated and supportive of the group's brutality.
He said the spread of fighters meant they were hard targets for air strikes.
A former German politician, Juergen Todenhoefer is the only outsider to have travelled deep into IS territory and back. And, considering that several Westerners have recently been beheaded, he did so at terrifying risk.
In Mosul, captured with lightning speed by IS in June, Mr Todenhoefer saw how the group imposes its extreme version of Sunni Islam.
Posters instruct men on the right positions in which to pray and tell women how to fully cover themselves.
They must not, for example, wear clothes that "resemble those worn by infidel women or men".
Images on advertising hoardings have been blacked out, and a bookshop displays pamphlets and tomes on religious rulings, including how to treat slaves.
He met child fighters bearing arms for the "caliphate," and encountered recruits from around the world, including the UK, US, Sweden and Trinidad and Tobago.
Rule by fear
Mr Todenhoefer said he was struck by their brutal zeal, and the scale of their ambition to carry out "religious cleansing" and to expand their territory.
"There is an enthusiasm that I've never seen before in warzones," he said.
"They are so confident, so sure of themselves. At the beginning of this year, few people knew of IS. But now they have conquered an area the size of the UK. This is a one per cent movement with the power of a nuclear bomb or a tsunami."
Filmed by his son - with a permit guaranteeing their safety - his material gives the impression of a group busy entrenching their bureaucracy, relatively unperturbed by the threat of coalition air strikes.
"I had the impression that they want to show that the Islamic State is working," Mr Todenhoefer said.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F79908000%2Fjpg%2F_79908348_2.jpg&hash=0db80a078e2fd8f84a2d1f861b16efb5afc2c81a)
Rest of item here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30585783
I'm giving this a new thread as I think it's progressed far enough that it now has some of the characteristics of a state, a rogue one that will have to be dealt with.
Draft fucking war mongers, eh?
You want it done, you get Germany to do it. We broke ourselves trying to fix that tea pot. Let them have their lame recapitulation of the 30 Years War that's not even as cool as ours, learning the same lesson we spent decades trying to teach them, except this time the hard way.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 23, 2014, 02:36:46 PM
We broke ourselves trying to fix that tea pot.
We broke the tea pot in the first place, so we bought it.
We just borrowed it from the British. They can have it back.
Fuck that. We save the Kurds & Yazidis. Esthablish a clear frontier & limits and let the Muslim world deal with that BS.
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 23, 2014, 02:53:04 PM
Fuck that. We save the Kurds & Yazidis. Esthablish a clear frontier & limits and let the Muslim world deal with that BS.
:thumbsup:
I think we should airlift all the Yazidis to the US, toss them all a green card.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2014, 02:54:33 PM
I think we should airlift all the Yazidis to the US, toss them all a green card.
Hell yeah, they don't deserve to live in the middle of that bullshit. They'd be happier in Reno.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2014, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 23, 2014, 02:53:04 PM
Fuck that. We save the Kurds & Yazidis. Esthablish a clear frontier & limits and let the Muslim world deal with that BS.
:thumbsup:
I think we should airlift all the Yazidis to the US, toss them all a green card.
Wrong.
Totally incorrect?
We're full. No pasaran.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2014, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 23, 2014, 02:53:04 PM
Fuck that. We save the Kurds & Yazidis. Esthablish a clear frontier & limits and let the Muslim world deal with that BS.
:thumbsup:
I think we should airlift all the Yazidis to the US, toss them all a green card.
Too much lettuce. Maybe Madagascar?
Actually, there's what, like 30 of them? It might be ok. Bad precedent tho.
What precedent?
If things suck somewhere else, afflicted populations can just come here, to America.
...look, lots of things have changed since 1880.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 23, 2014, 03:11:15 PM
We're full. No pasaran.
Who are you, fucking Little Town of Bethlehem Innkeeper #2 in this year's 1st grade Christmas Pageant?
What's our stable? Canada? They can go to Canada.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 23, 2014, 03:24:44 PM
...look, lots of things have changed since 1880.
Yes, keep going. . .
...So we need dieback. If people keep coming, we're not going to get it.
The good news is the Americans and their few allies have been conducting a remarkable air campaign against IS in terms of accuracy; saw a news report quoting one of the Syrian human rights groups which said the campaign in Syria had killed about 1150 fighter and just 52 civilians.
That's quite astonishing, hopefully it's denting IS's confidence, but obviously they'll adapt to lessen their vulnerability to air strikes, as mentioned in the article by the German author.
I guess the question is has that rate of loss been outpaced by the replacement rate of foreign jahadis arriving in country, and is the air campaign killing disproportionate numbers of commanders and more experience fighters.
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2014, 05:18:25 PM
The good news is the Americans and their few allies have been conducting a remarkable air campaign against IS in terms of accuracy; saw a news report quoting one of the Syrian human rights groups which said the campaign in Syria had killed about 1150 fighter and just 52 civilians.
That's quite astonishing, hopefully it's denting IS's confidence, but obviously they'll adapt to lessen their vulnerability to air strikes, as mentioned in the article by the German author.
I guess the question is has that rate of loss been outpaced by the replacement rate of foreign jahadis arriving in country, and is the air campaign killing disproportionate numbers of commanders and more experience fighters.
Good piece from the NY Times a week or so ago on the USS Carl Vinson and its air operations against ISIS. Their rules of engagement are so strict, in order to prevent possible civilian casualties, that the majority of sorties are returning with all their ordnance.
QuoteA Desert War on ISIS, Fought From a Floating City
ABOARD THE U.S.S. CARL VINSON, in the Persian Gulf — More than a dozen Navy F/A-18 warplanes roar off this aircraft carrier every day to attack Islamic State targets in support of Iraqi troops battling to regain ground lost to the militants in June.
These Navy pilots face an array of lethal risks during their six-hour round-trip missions. Surface-to-air missiles and other enemy fire lurk below, as the downing of an Iraqi military helicopter late Friday underscored. About 60 percent of the aircrews are still learning the ropes on their first combat tours.
The United States-led coalition improvises how the Iraqis call in airstrikes: Iraqi troops talk by radio to American controllers at Iraqi command centers, who in turn talk to the Navy pilots to help pinpoint what to hit. Senior commanders have said that placing American spotters with the Iraqi troops would be more effective, but they have yet to recommend that step knowing that President Obama opposes it.
In the initial weeks of an air campaign that started in August, Iraq's troops were tentative. Fighters from the Islamic State, also called ISIS or ISIL, quickly learned not to move in large numbers to avoid being struck. Three out of every four missions still return with their bombs for lack of approved targets.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/world/middleeast/attacking-isis-from-an-american-aircraft-carrier.html?_r=0
That sounds like a good set of rules of engagement to be honest. Avoiding costly and counterproductive mistakes doesn't seem to have a big cost at this point.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2014, 07:22:17 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2014, 05:18:25 PM
The good news is the Americans and their few allies have been conducting a remarkable air campaign against IS in terms of accuracy; saw a news report quoting one of the Syrian human rights groups which said the campaign in Syria had killed about 1150 fighter and just 52 civilians.
That's quite astonishing, hopefully it's denting IS's confidence, but obviously they'll adapt to lessen their vulnerability to air strikes, as mentioned in the article by the German author.
I guess the question is has that rate of loss been outpaced by the replacement rate of foreign jahadis arriving in country, and is the air campaign killing disproportionate numbers of commanders and more experience fighters.
Good piece from the NY Times a week or so ago on the USS Carl Vinson and its air operations against ISIS. Their rules of engagement are so strict, in order to prevent possible civilian casualties, that the majority of sorties are returning with all their ordnance.
QuoteA Desert War on ISIS, Fought From a Floating City
ABOARD THE U.S.S. CARL VINSON, in the Persian Gulf — More than a dozen Navy F/A-18 warplanes roar off this aircraft carrier every day to attack Islamic State targets in support of Iraqi troops battling to regain ground lost to the militants in June.
These Navy pilots face an array of lethal risks during their six-hour round-trip missions. Surface-to-air missiles and other enemy fire lurk below, as the downing of an Iraqi military helicopter late Friday underscored. About 60 percent of the aircrews are still learning the ropes on their first combat tours.
The United States-led coalition improvises how the Iraqis call in airstrikes: Iraqi troops talk by radio to American controllers at Iraqi command centers, who in turn talk to the Navy pilots to help pinpoint what to hit. Senior commanders have said that placing American spotters with the Iraqi troops would be more effective, but they have yet to recommend that step knowing that President Obama opposes it.
In the initial weeks of an air campaign that started in August, Iraq's troops were tentative. Fighters from the Islamic State, also called ISIS or ISIL, quickly learned not to move in large numbers to avoid being struck. Three out of every four missions still return with their bombs for lack of approved targets.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/world/middleeast/attacking-isis-from-an-american-aircraft-carrier.html?_r=0
Interesting article @cheers
The fly in the ointment is just how poorly the Iraqi 'authorities' are doing, viewed a news report from the former US base in Anbar province, it was tentatively going to be the forward base for the Iraqi recapture of main Sunni cities and towns there.
The reporter and Iraqis said the gains they'd cautiously made over weeks were lost to ISIL in a day or so, who were now barely 10 miles away and all but surrounding the huge base.
The Iraqis seemed to think the handful of US forces there acting as trainers were all that was stopping the base from falling, they reasoned the US would never allow them to fall into IS hands; almost 'hostages' to fortune in a way.
This evening I saw an AJ item about Iraqi police units training to retake Mosul, due to corruption, they'd not been paid, had just a few dozen AK47s to go around the several hundred of them and both the interviewer and the provincial governor, knew they stood no chance in any attack on IS in Mosul.
The best way to have dodged the local corruption would have been to run the place post-WW2-Japan style and build up the institutions ourselves. But alas, we had lost our own way since then, and instead threw our own, Halliburton-style corruption at it, and mixed it in with good 'ol home-grown Iraqi corruption.
But really, as Seedy has suggested we would have been better lopping off the northern part for Kurdistan after Gulf War I, and let Saddam run the rest (with some good threats to keep him in line against repressing the Shiites in the south too much).
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2014, 07:36:09 PM
The fly in the ointment is just how poorly the Iraqi 'authorities' are doing, viewed a news report from the former US base in Anbar province, it was tentatively going to be the forward base for the Iraqi recapture of main Sunni cities and towns there.
The reporter and Iraqis said the gains they'd cautiously made over weeks were lost to ISIL in a day or so, who were now barely 10 miles away and all but surrounding the huge base.
The Iraqis seemed to think the handful of US forces there acting as trainers were all that was stopping the base from falling, they reasoned the US would never allow them to fall into IS hands; almost 'hostages' to fortune in a way.
This evening I saw an AJ item about Iraqi police units training to retake Mosul, due to corruption, they'd not been paid, had just a few dozen AK47s to go around the several hundred of them and both the interviewer and the provincial governor, knew they stood no chance in any attack on IS in Mosul.
Which is why, before the end of Obama's term as president, I predict we will have the equivalent of three Combat Brigade Teams back on the ground in Iraq.
Hell, we got 1000 dudes from the 82nd Airborne on the way already.
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
That doesn't explain why you care, though. Aren't you all about apathy?
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
But they're blocking roads. :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2014, 07:43:46 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2014, 07:36:09 PM
The fly in the ointment is just how poorly the Iraqi 'authorities' are doing, viewed a news report from the former US base in Anbar province, it was tentatively going to be the forward base for the Iraqi recapture of main Sunni cities and towns there.
The reporter and Iraqis said the gains they'd cautiously made over weeks were lost to ISIL in a day or so, who were now barely 10 miles away and all but surrounding the huge base.
The Iraqis seemed to think the handful of US forces there acting as trainers were all that was stopping the base from falling, they reasoned the US would never allow them to fall into IS hands; almost 'hostages' to fortune in a way.
This evening I saw an AJ item about Iraqi police units training to retake Mosul, due to corruption, they'd not been paid, had just a few dozen AK47s to go around the several hundred of them and both the interviewer and the provincial governor, knew they stood no chance in any attack on IS in Mosul.
Which is why, before the end of Obama's term as president, I predict we will have the equivalent of three Combat Brigade Teams back on the ground in Iraq.
You're probably correct, but they'll be dropped into one hell of a mess.
Though if the original objective of 2003 was to create a failed state, then I think we can truly say mission accomplished.
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
That doesn't explain why you care, though. Aren't you all about apathy?
Which is exactly what I advocate in regards to ISIS :contract:
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 23, 2014, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
But they're blocking roads. :(
By all accounts the ISIL guys are awesome at sorting out traffic in downtown Mosul; might Mono become their latest Asian recruit - Jihadi Traffic Cop to his friends.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 23, 2014, 07:42:54 PM
The best way to have dodged the local corruption would have been to run the place post-WW2-Japan style and build up the institutions ourselves. But alas, we had lost our own way since then, and instead threw our own, Halliburton-style corruption at it, and mixed it in with good 'ol home-grown Iraqi corruption.
But really, as Seedy has suggested we would have been better lopping off the northern part for Kurdistan after Gulf War I, and let Saddam run the rest (with some good threats to keep him in line against repressing the Shiites in the south too much).
Northern Watch/Southern Watch was effective because it worked.
But even after 2003, if they had just let Jay Garner do his thing in trying to work with the Republican Guard and put a right thinking Sunni general back in charge, all of this bullshit could've been avoided. But nooooo...democracy, don't mess with Texas heh heh heh, KBR profiteering, Dick Cheney, etc.
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:48:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
That doesn't explain why you care, though. Aren't you all about apathy?
Which is exactly what I advocate in regards to ISIS :contract:
Why advocate at all. Whatever the US wants to do is nine of your concern, as long as your pension isn't threatened.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 23, 2014, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
:lol:
But they're blocking roads. :(
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:50:21 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:48:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
That doesn't explain why you care, though. Aren't you all about apathy?
Which is exactly what I advocate in regards to ISIS :contract:
Why advocate at all. Whatever the US wants to do is nine of your concern, as long as your pension isn't threatened.
Just me being apathetic isn't enough. It is important to get everybody on board ;)
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:59:23 PM
Just me being apathetic isn't enough. It is important to get everybody on board ;)
Most of us are human so it'll be hard to make us apathetic to all human suffering. :mellow:
I'm with you, Mono. Xi Jinping for Earth President.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 23, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
I'm with you, Mono. Xi Jinping for Earth President.
Ide goes into the tanks. Or nerve stapled.
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 08:03:27 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:59:23 PM
Just me being apathetic isn't enough. It is important to get everybody on board ;)
Most of us are human so it'll be hard to make us apathetic to all human suffering. :mellow:
Why pick ISIS? There are a lot of large-scale human suffering in all corners of the world. People in North Korea suffer. A lot of civil wars go on in Africa.
There's a shitload of Muslim refugees in CAR that are pretty much going through the exact same thing the Yazidis did; surrounded and starving. UNHCR is getting busy signals from everyone they call for help.
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 08:36:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 08:03:27 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:59:23 PM
Just me being apathetic isn't enough. It is important to get everybody on board ;)
Most of us are human so it'll be hard to make us apathetic to all human suffering. :mellow:
Why pick ISIS? There are a lot of large-scale human suffering in all corners of the world. People in North Korea suffer. A lot of civil wars go on in Africa.
Is ISIS the only incident where you have seen the US/Americans intervene? :hmm:
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:59:23 PMJust me being apathetic isn't enough. It is important to get everybody on board ;)
I don't think you have what it takes to be a demagogue and rally people to your side. I mean, sure, you got Ide but it looks like he'll try on pretty much any odious iconoclasm in the hope that it makes him feel better about himself.
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 09:59:10 PM
sure, you got Ide but it looks like he'll try on pretty much any odious iconoclasm in the hope that it makes him feel better about himself.
:(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2014, 07:43:46 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2014, 07:36:09 PM
The fly in the ointment is just how poorly the Iraqi 'authorities' are doing, viewed a news report from the former US base in Anbar province, it was tentatively going to be the forward base for the Iraqi recapture of main Sunni cities and towns there.
The reporter and Iraqis said the gains they'd cautiously made over weeks were lost to ISIL in a day or so, who were now barely 10 miles away and all but surrounding the huge base.
The Iraqis seemed to think the handful of US forces there acting as trainers were all that was stopping the base from falling, they reasoned the US would never allow them to fall into IS hands; almost 'hostages' to fortune in a way.
This evening I saw an AJ item about Iraqi police units training to retake Mosul, due to corruption, they'd not been paid, had just a few dozen AK47s to go around the several hundred of them and both the interviewer and the provincial governor, knew they stood no chance in any attack on IS in Mosul.
Which is why, before the end of Obama's term as president, I predict we will have the equivalent of three Combat Brigade Teams back on the ground in Iraq.
I tend to agree, because even though there's no desire to go back in, plus a poorly run Iraqi government who can't seem to get their act together, to have Iraq fall and ISIL gain a permanent hold and base of operations is about the worst possibility to deal with as they would get so much stronger. So we're almost forced to go back in, and probably some allies also from outside the region.
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Is there any reason why we can't just ignore them? Sure, get your citizens out, and bomb them a bit for murdering people. But not sure if more needs to be done.
What do you care? It's not your tax dollars being spent in any case.
Because posting in languish is free :contract:
That doesn't explain why you care, though. Aren't you all about apathy?
Well, not enough to get all excited about it.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 23, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
I'm with you, Mono. Xi Jinping for Earth President.
I'm sure the Chinese intelligence services would be glad to have your input; you do have access to privileged information, right? Maybe you should look for a Confucius Institute in your area and participate enthusiastically. You may make some money down the line.
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 10:00:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 09:59:10 PM
sure, you got Ide but it looks like he'll try on pretty much any odious iconoclasm in the hope that it makes him feel better about himself.
:(
Did I misread your sarcasm? If so, sorry :console:
I sometimes find it hard to tell your earnest opinions from you full on sarcasm, since you most frequently seem to be taking the half-ironic, half-genuine line.
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 09:59:10 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 23, 2014, 07:59:23 PMJust me being apathetic isn't enough. It is important to get everybody on board ;)
I don't think you have what it takes to be a demagogue and rally people to your side. I mean, sure, you got Ide but it looks like he'll try on pretty much any odious iconoclasm in the hope that it makes him feel better about himself.
:lol: I agree with you on that point. Won't stop me from trying though. :cool:
I have to add though, that the beauty of the apathy position is that I don't need to rally people to my side. I only need to stop people from joining the other side :contract:
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 10:07:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 10:00:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 09:59:10 PM
sure, you got Ide but it looks like he'll try on pretty much any odious iconoclasm in the hope that it makes him feel better about himself.
:(
Did I misread your sarcasm? If so, sorry :console:
I sometimes find it hard to tell your earnest opinions from you full on sarcasm, since you most frequently seem to be taking the half-ironic, half-genuine line.
I'm not Ide. :unsure:
But yeah, it is sad because it seems true.
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 10:15:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 10:07:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 10:00:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 09:59:10 PM
sure, you got Ide but it looks like he'll try on pretty much any odious iconoclasm in the hope that it makes him feel better about himself.
:(
Did I misread your sarcasm? If so, sorry :console:
I sometimes find it hard to tell your earnest opinions from you full on sarcasm, since you most frequently seem to be taking the half-ironic, half-genuine line.
I'm not Ide. :unsure:
But yeah, it is sad because it seems true.
I read your post correctly, indeed I had pressed the post button to quote it and comment you for the sentiment, but I got distracted by something on television. :blush:
Yes, I was being sarcastic. <_<
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2014, 08:52:13 PM
There's a shitload of Muslim refugees in CAR that are pretty much going through the exact same thing the Yazidis did; surrounded and starving. UNHCR is getting busy signals from everyone they call for help.
The difference is, of course, that in CAR, we are, and have always been, Mono-apathetic. In Iraq, it can be said we might have some responsibility...even if we gave the locals every chance in the world (and then some), and they chose to screw it up anyway.
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 10:15:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 10:07:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2014, 10:00:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 23, 2014, 09:59:10 PM
sure, you got Ide but it looks like he'll try on pretty much any odious iconoclasm in the hope that it makes him feel better about himself.
:(
Did I misread your sarcasm? If so, sorry :console:
I sometimes find it hard to tell your earnest opinions from you full on sarcasm, since you most frequently seem to be taking the half-ironic, half-genuine line.
I'm not Ide. :unsure:
But yeah, it is sad because it seems true.
:lol: whoops :Embarrass:
That's what I get for posting while trying to feed a toddler at the same time.
Quote from: KRonn on December 23, 2014, 10:01:15 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2014, 07:43:46 PM
Which is why, before the end of Obama's term as president, I predict we will have the equivalent of three Combat Brigade Teams back on the ground in Iraq.
I tend to agree, because even though there's no desire to go back in, plus a poorly run Iraqi government who can't seem to get their act together, to have Iraq fall and ISIL gain a permanent hold and base of operations is about the worst possibility to deal with as they would get so much stronger. So we're almost forced to go back in, and probably some allies also from outside the region.
Yeah, if the region and the world wants it done right, there needs to be the political acknowledgement that we're the only ones capable of getting it done on the ground to the extent that would show dividends. The Iraqis can't, and will be unable to in the foreseeable future.
Snap up your chinstrap, Siegy, you're going back in the game in the 2nd half.
News is reporting the story of a Jordanian military pilot captured after his plane was shot down during an attack mission against ISIL.
Bummer.
Yeah, probably better to blow your brains out than being captured by them.
I hope Jordanians have better staying power than cutting and running after their pilot gets beheaded on the intranets. But I think we know the answer to that.
I'd put money on the Hoya sticking it out.
The Jordanian military is comprised of Bedouin badasses.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 23, 2014, 11:53:14 PM
The difference is, of course, that in CAR, we are, and have always been, Mono-apathetic. In Iraq, it can be said we might have some responsibility...even if we gave the locals every chance in the world (and then some), and they chose to screw it up anyway.
Every chance in the world? :blink:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 24, 2014, 11:17:05 AM
I'd put money on the Hoya sticking it out.
The Jordanian military is comprised of Bedouin badasses.
I'd like to think so, particularly how this issue is probably the gravest military threat they've faced that doesn't have baby blue on it. I'm confident that AnchorClanker embedded as their Deputy Minister of Defense will help them stay the course.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 24, 2014, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 24, 2014, 11:17:05 AM
I'd put money on the Hoya sticking it out.
The Jordanian military is comprised of Bedouin badasses.
I'd like to think so, particularly how this issue is probably the gravest military threat they've faced that doesn't have baby blue on it. I'm confident that AnchorClanker embedded as their Deputy Minister of Defense will help them stay the course.
Yes, IS is pretty much an existential threat to Jordan.
Can we deploy now?
Not yet?
They are getting stronger.
Now they are shooting down Yardenian planes.
But whatever. We'll fight and die where and when you civvies tell us to. At least let us really win this time.
Quote from: Siege on December 24, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
Can we deploy now?
Not yet?
They are getting stronger.
Now they are shooting down Yardenian planes.
But whatever. We'll fight and die where and when you civvies tell us to. At least let us really win this time.
Don't blame your failures on others.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 24, 2014, 01:40:32 PM
Don't blame your failures on others.
He's not. His job is to win battles, which he did.