http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/horrifying-video-man-dies-after-nypd-chokehold.html?mid=facebook_nymag
QuoteAsthmatic Man Dies After NYPD Puts Him in a Chokehold; Horrifying Video Shows Him Telling Cops 'I Can't Breathe' at Least 9 Times
An unarmed 43-year-old father of six from Staten Island died yesterday after at least five NYPD officers choked and smothered him during an arrest. Eric Garner, who suffered from chronic asthma, diabetes, and sleep apnea, was about six-foot-four, 400 pounds, the Daily News reports, and had a history of arrests for selling untaxed cigarettes. "I'm minding my business," he says when confronted in the deeply disturbing video shot by a neighbor. "Are you serious? I didn't do nothin'. What'd I do?"
"Every time you see me, you're messing with me. I'm tired of it. This stops today," says Garner. "Every time you see me, you wanna harass me. I told you last time, please just leave me alone."
When the officers move to arrest him, Garner struggles until he's choked from behind by a man not in uniform, who then pushes Garner's head into the concrete. "I can't breathe!" says Garner in a muffled scream. "I can't breathe!" He repeats it over and over again, at least nine times audibly. Witnesses say the incident started when Garner tried to break up a fight.
An NYPD spokesperson would only tell the Daily News that Garner "was being placed in custody, went into cardiac arrest and died." Internal affairs has launched an investigation, with Garner's wife saying a detective has been in touch. "I'm sorry for your loss," he said, noting that he was involved "because there is wrongdoing."
Shouldn't have mouthed off to the cops. Doing like Dora the Explorer doesn't do shit.
Cops! No Arresting!
Cops! No Arresting!
Cops! No Arresting!
Why did you cut out the "That much seems obvious."
Good press follows the NYPD wherever they go.
My takeaway from stories like these is:
- when dealing with U.S. police, be as unconfrontational as possible, even if you think the police are overstepping their bounds or you're in the right
- when there's someone at the door at weird hours of the night, open up, because it's likely a SWAT team who will storm the place and potentially shoot you if you don't react fast enough
- live as far away from possible felons, so that cops who forgot to check the address for a raid don't fire flashbangs into your baby's bed before they storm the place
Quote from: Syt on July 18, 2014, 10:18:29 AM
My takeaway from stories like these is:
- when dealing with U.S. police, be as unconfrontational as possible, even if you think the police are overstepping their bounds or you're in the right
- when there's someone at the door at weird hours of the night, open up, because it's likely a SWAT team who will storm the place and potentially shoot you if you don't react fast enough
- live as far away from possible felons, so that cops who forgot to check the address for a raid don't fire flashbangs into your baby's bed before they storm the place
Impressive you can learn so many essential skills at such a distance.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2014, 10:17:05 AM
Why did you cut out the "That much seems obvious."
Because while I think this is one of many cases that a) shouldn't happen, and b) need thorough investigation, I found that last comment too judgmental. Wrongdoing as they put it here would IMHO require the cops to overstep their mandate either willfully or out of neglect, which they might not even have done, in which case their policies/procedures would require the investigation, not the cops.
Quote from: Syt on July 18, 2014, 10:21:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2014, 10:17:05 AM
Why did you cut out the "That much seems obvious."
Because while I think this is one of many cases that a) shouldn't happen, and b) need thorough investigation, I found that last comment too judgmental. Wrongdoing as they put it here would IMHO require the cops to overstep their mandate either willfully or out of neglect, which they might not even have done, in which case their policies/procedures would require the investigation, not the cops.
Gotcha. Well I would say that I don't think one can be judgmental enough when it comes to the police.
Oh, I'm all for keeping tight checks on them. At the same time, a defense in this case will probably along the lines that he was such a big guy, he had a history of resisting arrests from his cigarette dealings so they felt threatened, they needed so many guys because he was so big, and when he claimed that he couldn't breathe they thought it was a ploy to get them to ease off so that he could make his escape.
And they might not even be lying about it.
That's why I say the only way to play it safe is to fully comply. If U.S. police come to my house without warrant in the middle of the night to do a cavity search I would comply for fear of getting a bullet in my head or having any other "accident". (And afterwards I'd press charges, obviously.)
Quote from: Syt on July 18, 2014, 10:27:35 AM
That's why I say the only way to play it safe is to fully comply.
Oh, of course.
Quote from: Syt on July 18, 2014, 10:18:29 AM
- live as far away from possible felons, so that cops who forgot to check the address for a raid don't fire flashbangs into your baby's bed before they storm the place
Fewer felons in your area generally means less aggressive cops, which is also a benefit.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2014, 10:38:19 AM
Fewer felons in your area generally means less aggressive cops, which is also a benefit.
I dunno about that. A bored cop can be as twitchy, if not twitchier, than a busy cop.
I guess I'd rather the NYPD doing the following if they have to indulge in a vice...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-usa-crime-newyork-idUSKBN0FN05N20140718
QuoteNYPD detective charged with filing fake crime tip for reward
A New York police detective has been arrested and charged with filing a fake crime tip in an attempt to cash in on the $1,000 reward, prosecutors said on Thursday.
John Malloy, 46, was arraigned in state court in Manhattan on Thursday and pleaded not guilty to felony counts of forgery, and filing a false claim, and lesser charges of official misconduct and attempted petty larceny, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office said. He was released on his own recognizance after the hearing.
Prosecutors said Malloy, a detective with the department's Operation Gun Stop program since 2006, filed a fake tip report in November 2012 for a firearm that had already been recovered in Brooklyn. An arrest in the case had also been made without any tip, prosecutors said.
Malloy then forged the signatures of a fellow detective, a supervising sergeant and a police inspector in an effort to claim the reward, prosecutors said. The case was reported to the police department's Internal Affairs bureau for further investigation.
In a statement to investigators, Malloy said he forged the signatures merely to placate superiors who were pressuring him to file a report for a detective who took in a tip the night before, court documents show.
"I couldn't read his handwriting, so I recopied the form and signed his name and (the sergeant's name). I know I shouldn't have. I could have asked them to do it," Malloy told investigators, according to court documents.
"I was having health problems and under a lot of stress," he added, according to the documents.
An attorney for Malloy could not be immediately reached for comment on Thursday.
The Gun Stop Program is run by the New York City Police Foundation as a way for civilians to report illegal gun activity. Since its inception in 2001, tips coming into the program have led to more than 5,600 arrests and the recovery of 3,350 illegal weapons, its website said.
Police have approved over $2.1 million in rewards, the website said.
In response, Spike Lee burns down a pizzeria.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 18, 2014, 11:06:34 AM
In response, Spike Lee burns down a pizzeria.
More evidence America privileges White Property over Black Lives.
Quote from: Syt on July 18, 2014, 10:21:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2014, 10:17:05 AM
Why did you cut out the "That much seems obvious."
Because while I think this is one of many cases that a) shouldn't happen, and b) need thorough investigation, I found that last comment too judgmental. Wrongdoing as they put it here would IMHO require the cops to overstep their mandate either willfully or out of neglect, which they might not even have done, in which case their policies/procedures would require the investigation, not the cops.
Well, chokehold is illegal. even by NYPD. There was a case 20 years ago where another overweight guy suffering from asthma died after confrontation with police, and the cop eventually went to jail (though not before being acquitted by the kangaroo NY judge-only court).
Quote- when dealing with U.S. police, be as unconfrontational as possible, even if you think the police are overstepping their bounds or you're in the right
I just do that with any police or at border crossings. Hell, even in most state offices as well. They have excessive tools at their disposal to make your day or near future miserable, so rationally it doesn't worth it to try and stand up to their asshatery.
Quote from: DGuller on July 18, 2014, 11:27:46 AM
Well, chokehold is illegal. even by NYPD. There was a case 20 years ago where another overweight guy suffering from asthma died after confrontation with police, and the cop eventually went to jail (though not before being acquitted by the kangaroo NY judge-only court).
The parenthetical at the end confused me. What is so odd about a court with only NY judges? Why would a NY court have out of state judges?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 18, 2014, 12:39:26 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 18, 2014, 11:27:46 AM
Well, chokehold is illegal. even by NYPD. There was a case 20 years ago where another overweight guy suffering from asthma died after confrontation with police, and the cop eventually went to jail (though not before being acquitted by the kangaroo NY judge-only court).
The parenthetical at the end confused me. What is so odd about a court with only NY judges? Why would a NY court have out of state judges?
NY applied to court, not judge. :blush: Basically, the cop chose to have his case decided by a judge rather than a jury, which is fair enough in theory, but in practice that's almost a guaranteed acquittal for a cop. The cop got convicted because the Feds tried him again for civil rights violation (which always strikes as more of a second wrong trying to right the first wrong).
Quote from: Tamas on July 18, 2014, 11:31:59 AM
I just do that with any police or at border crossings.
I tend to be so sleep-deprived when I get back to the US from my Argentina trips that more often than not I give jumbled answers to the customs/immigration person. I have trouble focusing sometimes as it is and when I'm really tired that can get magnified to the point where my mind just goes blank frequently. Raises an eyebrow when I struggle to tell them where I'm from or who I just visited. But I think they eventually conclude that I am probably who I say I am but that I must just be stupid :D
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/cops-react-to-the-death-of-eric-garner.html
I lurked police forums like that a couple of times. Didn't exactly give me the biggest respect for cops. They also seem to grossly misunderstand the concept of discretion, and the fact that this concept doesn't cover discriminatory policies.
Well the chokehold itself as mentioned is prohibited in I'd imagine every police department in America. I know that back in the day (70s? earlier?) police were trained in a type of MMA style rear-choke as a compliance tool that was thought to be safe for both suspect/officer. It ended up though that some people had a habit of not waking back up after being choked out.
I am not a doctor, but I don't think you can say "I can't breathe" over and over again if the reason you cannot breathe is that someone has placed a chokehold on you that restricts your breathing sufficiently to endanger your life.
If the police used an illegal chokehold, then of course there has to be consequences - but I think people are pretty quick to blame the cops. The guy resisted arrest. That is often, if not always, a violent thing. There are all kinds of bad things that can happen to everyone involved at that point, and one certain way to avoid it - don't resist arrest.
This is another one of those cases where people that distrust the cops are going to blame them no matter the details, and vice versa. :showoff:
Quote from: Caliga on July 23, 2014, 09:23:08 AM
This is another one of those cases where people that distrust the cops are going to blame them no matter the details, and vice versa. :showoff:
I'm happy for any instance to be used to rein in the police. :)
Quote from: Berkut on July 23, 2014, 09:20:43 AM
If the police used an illegal chokehold, then of course there has to be consequences - but I think people are pretty quick to blame the cops. The guy resisted arrest. That is often, if not always, a violent thing. There are all kinds of bad things that can happen to everyone involved at that point, and one certain way to avoid it - don't resist arrest.
True. If cops can't arrest citizens, I'd like them to just kill them.
I saw the video; that wasn't a chokehold as much as it was an attempt to take a very large, very combative man down.
I do give them credit for actually putting their hands on him, as opposed to simply nightsticking him down, which is much easier.
I normally take the line of don't convict the police before we know anything, but I'm white so the police are my friends. But in this case NYPD Commissioner Bratton I believe has already openly said what he saw on the video violates departmental procedure and he's livid. There are different types of chokes, though. Not all of them fully restrict breathing, but all of them when fully applied typically cause you to lose consciousness very quickly so I doubt Garner was fully locked in. Since police aren't supposed to be trained in any type of choke I doubt it was any specifically designed MMA/combat arts type choke.
There's typically a tightness in your chest and difficulty breathing if you're having a heart attack, which is most likely what was happening to Garner.
Due to laziness/disinterest I'd never looked at this video. Lawl, if that is considered police brutality these days I'm not sure how we expect the police to function going forward. I guess like the cops from Stallone's Demolition Man who politely walk up and firmly demand you surrender, and if you decline, they firmly repeat the demand until Wesley Snipes takes their electric-stun batons from them and uses them to blow up a futuristic electric car.
That was a headlock and wrestling the guy to the ground, nothing close to a choke. You can't use OC Spray or tasers anymore without people pussy bleeding, so that's literally the only option left outside of Ye Aulde billy club which has a long history of being bitched about as well. The dude is massively fat and asthmatic, but I've seen a lot of asthma attacks so I don't think that's what he was having--his voice was way too clear and not interrupted with extremely labored gasps for air.
The only thing I could see any fault with is exercising discretion on whether the guy needed arrested in the first place for a penny ante cigarette tax stamp issue. That seems like something that should have been a citation offense. To me that's really the only relevant question, whether he should have been arrested or not. But if the arrest was legally proper I don't actually understand how police are supposed to effect it against someone who doesn't want to be arrested without using physical force. I'd be interested in some theories on that.
We had a similar situation several years ago where some really huge dude jacked up on something was causing a disturbance outside a White Castle. He wouldn't leave so the officers tried to arrest him. He resisted, so they got out the billy clubs to try to subdue him. He died from a heart attack as a result of the struggle, which caused a big shitstorm with a lot of people calling for the Cincy PD to start using "more humane" tasers.
So they started using tasers and eventually one suspect had a heart attack due to being tased. Sure enough, the same voices screamed "police brutality". Can't remember if they had any suggestions of what to use in place of tasers.
That's a rear naked choke (0:39) leading to positional asphyxia. That officer should be put in jail.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 01:49:18 PM
That's a rear naked choke (0:39) leading to positional asphyxia. That officer should be put in jail.
What if it were accidental, like his hand slipped or something?
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2014, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 01:49:18 PM
That's a rear naked choke (0:39) leading to positional asphyxia. That officer should be put in jail.
What if it were accidental, like his hand slipped or something?
Dude, that officer put him in a rear naked choke intentionally. Wasnt any accident. The choke started the victims demise by restricting his breathing and his face down prone position continued to restrict it.
Also a big man like that will have problems breathing while face down too. Even with out people on top of him.
Look at 39 Seconds on the vid (start of the choke). The choke isnt released till 0:53 seconds on the vid when his on the ground. Garner is trying to roll on his side to get air. The cops are taking that as resisting.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 01:49:18 PM
That's a rear naked choke (0:39) leading to positional asphyxia. That officer should be put in jail.
Looked to me like the hold was released about 3 seconds after he got him on the ground, though.
The chokehold didn't kill him, the weight of officers trying to cuff him while he was facedown did. Hell, he'd probably die in his sleep if he slept on his belly.
Sorry, but when we live in a world where pharmaceutical companies warn you to "ask your doctor if your heart is well enough for you to have sex", people need to understand that there exists the probability that large, unhealthy cop fighters with severe issues will, on occasion, go tits up.
Personally, I would've kept talking to the dude for a while, especially since he was a known dirtbag, but that's why I was never invited to all the FOP's reindeer games.
It just doesn't look like it to me, when he reaches forward from behind I don't see where he's actually got any part of his arm/wrist in any way pressed into his throat such that it would cause any choking. I could be wrong though, and it's hard to tell since you get a view of all of 0:02 of it, but to me it didn't look like a choke was ever locked in, but instead more of a freestyle wrestling move that would have probably been legal in my High School wrestling days (although not if he locked his hands in anyway.) I can't see clearly that he ever locks his hands/arms in a way that you'd see in a choke, and honestly that sort of take down would be borderline legal in HS freestyle wrestling (in which chokes of any kind, key locks, locking holds etc are banned in most states/NCAA.)
Plus it lasts all of 0:02 seconds and then he's on the ground talking. The fact that he's actually able to talk so clearly despite saying he can't breathe makes me suspect he was in arrest and the tightness sensation that comes from that is what he's confusing for being unable to breathe. When you genuinely cannot breathe you cannot speak. If you're short of breath it's usually obvious by labored speech/difficulty speaking due to fighting to get air while trying to speak.
I do agree positional asphyxia is a big possibility for a morbidly obese man on the ground like that with cops dropping their body weight on him.
I was expected a UFC style choke out, and I honestly just don't see that on the video. If you think that's so clear from the 0:39-0:41 clip, okay I guess, but to me I never even see both of the cop's arms actually connect in any way which is part of locking in a choke of that kind.
You see all the ink on that cop's arm? That's ex-service. So that's the first fucking mistake in the story. Stop hiring soldiers to be police officers. Brooklyn ain't Bagram.
Actually I'll revise what I say about the video, at 0:39 I still see more of a take-down type move and not a clear choke. But at 0:50 when he's on the ground, right before the cop releases it, you can see he has the crook of his elbow wrapped around the guy's throat, which is definitely a choke, he's already partially releasing it at that point but it's likely he was choking the guy for a few seconds. But he was able to speak clearly after that so I do agree with CdM the choke didn't kill him and I think it's unlikely he died of asphyxiation but probably a cardiac event. The stress of the wrestling/being held down in general was probably enough to do that with or without the brief choke. But yes, since he does obviously have a choke locked in at 0:50 the officer broke departmental policy and I believe physical contact outside the shroud of legal law enforcement would be criminal assault, and under the "egg shell skull" theory I think the officer has some culpability in what came after that.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2014, 02:08:40 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 01:49:18 PM
That's a rear naked choke (0:39) leading to positional asphyxia. That officer should be put in jail.
Looked to me like the hold was released about 3 seconds after he got him on the ground, though.
The chokehold didn't kill him, the weight of officers trying to cuff him while he was facedown did. Hell, he'd probably die in his sleep if he slept on his belly.
That's what I said. :rolleyes: The choke was applied for at least 10 seconds.
QuotePersonally, I would've kept talking to the dude for a while, especially since he was a known dirtbag, but that's why I was never invited to all the FOP's reindeer games.
Couldnt agree more. Most of the time the best weapon is the one below the nose.
That officer should be thrown in prison. Also, if it's against NYPD policy to use chokes, NY is going to be shelling out some cash.
I find it interesting 11B's extensive medical training enables him to determine cause of a death for a person without ever having even seen, let alone been in contact with the cadaver. I don't believe it's clear from the video he died from asphyxiation (positional or otherwise) of any kind. It's obviously possible, but it'd be odd as a cause of death since he was clearly able to actually breathe.
Edit: I'm not sure how we would know how long the choke was locked in for in any case. Most people will lose consciousness from 10 seconds of a rear naked choke, and Eric Garner never did while the officer had him locked up. And since he was moving around substantially during it it's likely it was not locked in the entire time, especially since at 0:39 it's really not obviously actually locked in at all.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 23, 2014, 02:19:32 PM
I find it interesting 11B's extensive medical training enables him to determine cause of a death for a person without ever having even seen, let alone been in contact with the cadaver. I don't believe it's clear from the video he died from asphyxiation (positional or otherwise) of any kind. It's obviously possible, but it'd be odd as a cause of death since he was clearly able to actually breathe.
I believe your fucking stupid.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 02:20:49 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 23, 2014, 02:19:32 PM
I find it interesting 11B's extensive medical training enables him to determine cause of a death for a person without ever having even seen, let alone been in contact with the cadaver. I don't believe it's clear from the video he died from asphyxiation (positional or otherwise) of any kind. It's obviously possible, but it'd be odd as a cause of death since he was clearly able to actually breathe.
I believe your fucking stupid.
Well I do remember being able to write at least at 6th grade level English which you obviously can't, so I guess if I'm fucking stupid you're fucking retarded.
QuoteEdit: I'm not sure how we would know how long the choke was locked in for in any case. Most people will lose consciousness from 10 seconds of a rear naked choke, and Eric Garner never did while the officer had him locked up. And since he was moving around substantially during it it's likely it was not locked in the entire time, especially since at 0:39 it's really not obviously actually locked in at all.
Whether the choke was locked in completely cutting his airway/restricting blood flow or partially, combine that with positional asphyxia, you mostly likely have a winner. The Choke started it off.
What is meant by the "naked" in rear naked choke?
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 23, 2014, 02:22:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 02:20:49 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 23, 2014, 02:19:32 PM
I find it interesting 11B's extensive medical training enables him to determine cause of a death for a person without ever having even seen, let alone been in contact with the cadaver. I don't believe it's clear from the video he died from asphyxiation (positional or otherwise) of any kind. It's obviously possible, but it'd be odd as a cause of death since he was clearly able to actually breathe.
I believe your fucking stupid.
Well I do remember being able to write at least at 6th grade level English which you obviously can't, so I guess if I'm fucking stupid you're fucking retarded.
Don't get mad because you failed to see what was happening in the vid or even understand what was happening.
Your powers of observation match your ability to post paragraphs of moronic BS.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2014, 02:28:42 PM
What is meant by the "naked" in rear naked choke?
Derived from Judo
Means it doesnt require the use of the "Gi" to apply the choke.
OK.
What's the Gi?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2014, 02:37:32 PM
OK.
What's the Gi?
A uniform
Google's your friend.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.budovideos.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F280x%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2F3%2F2%2F32335_1.jpg&hash=9e89f0f71117dd92866e7e0ab21ed00a78111f87)
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 02:17:24 PM
That's what I said. :rolleyes:
Don't give me any shit because you get your post in before I do. Typing on an iPhone from the shitter isnt as easy as it sounds.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2014, 02:41:53 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 02:17:24 PM
That's what I said. :rolleyes:
Don't give me any shit because you get your post in before I do. Typing on an iPhone from the shitter isnt as easy as it sounds.
:P
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 02:32:30 PMDon't get mad because you failed to see what was happening in the vid or even understand what was happening.
Your powers of observation match your ability to post paragraphs of moronic BS.
No like I said, I'm actually impressed that you're able to tell he had a choke when you can only see it for 0:02 on a grainy video and where you cannot actually see his hands or a clear angle on his arm relative to his throat, like you claim to see at 0:39.
But I'm mostly impressed with the medical examiner still not having determined cause of death you apparently have surpassed the expertise of a clinical pathologist by ten fold since you've been able to ascertain it without actually even seeing Garner's death, his dead body, or even been in the same room as it. Let alone without having to resort to the actual you know, procedures a medical examiner has to use.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 23, 2014, 02:47:09 PM
No like I said, I'm actually impressed that you're able to tell he had a choke when you can only see it for 0:02 on a grainy video and where you cannot actually see his hands or a clear angle on his arm relative to his throat, like you claim to see at 0:39.
Look at it again or maybe you don't know what you're looking at. You didn't see it the first time, so not surprising to me. Of course, you probably think that a choke (general term), can just cut the airway too. Look up shime-waza and educate yourself. Ass
Quote
But I'm mostly impressed with the medical examiner still not having determined cause of death you apparently have surpassed the expertise of a clinical pathologist by ten fold since you've been able to ascertain it without actually even seeing Garner's death, his dead body, or even been in the same room as it. Let alone without having to resort to the actual you know, procedures a medical examiner has to use.
We'll see. I have a feeling I'll be jamming this paragraph up your ass.
Second to last paragraph. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs107fqCIAMCAV7.jpg)
I'll even translate it for you OVB
Shime-Waza=Choking Techniques
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 02:56:28 PMLook at it again or maybe you don't know what you're looking at. You didn't see it the first time, so not surprising to me. Of course, you probably think that a choke (general term), can just cut the airway too. Look up shime-waza and educate yourself. Ass
We'll see. I have a feeling I'll be jamming this paragraph up your ass.
:lmfao:
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 23, 2014, 03:26:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 23, 2014, 02:56:28 PMLook at it again or maybe you don't know what you're looking at. You didn't see it the first time, so not surprising to me. Of course, you probably think that a choke (general term), can just cut the airway too. Look up shime-waza and educate yourself. Ass
We'll see. I have a feeling I'll be jamming this paragraph up your ass.
:lmfao:
My sentiments exactly. :lmfao:
So much right-wing on right-wing violence. :(
Laughing is violence now? <_<
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2014, 03:44:43 PM
So much right-wing on right-wing violence. :(
Better than moderate-on-moderate violence we've been subjected to lately.
Quote from: garbon on July 23, 2014, 03:45:33 PM
Laughing is violence now? <_<
It is the way we do it. :ph34r:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2014, 03:44:43 PM
So much right-wing on right-wing violence. :(
11B is a moderate. JUST. LIKE. YOU.
But he loves his firearms in an immoderate fashion.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 23, 2014, 04:51:19 PM
But he loves his firearms in an immoderate fashion.
How so?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2014, 03:44:43 PM
So much right-wing on right-wing violence. :(
The reaction always devours its own children.
Quote from: garbon on July 23, 2014, 03:45:33 PM
Laughing is violence now? <_<
Syntactic sodomy was threatened, no laughing matter that.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 23, 2014, 09:36:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 23, 2014, 03:45:33 PM
Laughing is violence now? <_<
Syntactic sodomy was threatened, no laughing matter that.
I'll admit that I've never tried that...yet. :ph34r:
11B, your arguments are useless towards OvB: the deceased was black, so obviously he must have been in the wrong.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-garner-homicide-20140801-story.html
QuoteDeath of man in NYPD chokehold controversy ruled a homicide
The death of a 43-year-old New York City man who was placed in a chokehold by police officers has been ruled a homicide, according to the New York City medical examiner's office.
Eric Garner, whose death became a national controversy after video surfaced of an officer placing him in what appeared to be a chokehold on July 17, was killed by "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," according to Julie Bolcer, director of public affairs for the medical examiner's office.
Bolcer said Garner's asthma, obesity and cardiovascular disease were contributing factors, but the medical examiner's office has ruled the death a homicide.
Police were trying to arrest Garner for selling untaxed cigarettes when he became embroiled in an argument with officers Daniel Pantaleo and Justin D'Amico. A video of the incident shows Pantaleo place him in a chokehold and drive him to the ground, while another officer pins his head to the sidewalk as Garner repeatedly says "I can't breathe!"
Pantaleo's gun and badge were taken away, while D'Amico has been placed on desk duty.
At the time, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio called the incident "troubling," while Police Commissioner William Bratton said it showed the need for new training among officers.
In a statement issued late Friday, de Blasio said his administration will work closely with law enforcement to ensure a "justified outcome" in light of the medical examiner's ruling.
"We all have a responsibility to work together to heal the wounds from decades of mistrust and create a culture where the police department and the communities they protect respect each other—and that's a responsibility that Commissioner Bratton and I take very seriously," the mayor said.
A spokesperson for the NYPD referred all questions to the Richmond County District Attorney's Office.
Garner's family is expected to react to the ruling on Saturday morning, alongside the Rev. Al Sharpton at the National Action Network's weekly address in Harlem, according to an NAN spokeswoman.
Richmond County District Atty. Daniel Donovan released a statement on Friday acknowledging the medical examiner's findings, but said only that the investigation into the man's death will continue.
"We await the issuance of the official death certificate and the autopsy report," the statement read. "The investigation into Mr. Garner's death continues."
Wayne Fisher, a law enforcement expert and professor with the Rutgers University Police Institute in New Jersey, said Friday's ruling does not mean Pantaleo and D'Amico will face criminal charges.
"All the medical examiner is saying is that the death was caused by the actions of another human being," Fisher told the Los Angeles Times. "Now, the question is whether or not those actions constituted a crime."
Donna Lieberman, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union's New York chapter, told The Times that the medical examiner's ruling virtually ensures that the officers involved will face a grand jury hearing.
"This case has to go before the grand jury," she said. "When the medical examiner rules a case a homicide by chokehold, and the entire world has seen a video of the people responsible for the chokehold, the case is going before the grand jury."
Lieberman also said the visibility of the case coupled with the determination that Garner's death was a homicide makes Bratton's plan to retrain officers involved in street clashes all the more essential.
"It should be chastening to the police department that what the world saw on video was deemed homicide by the medical examiner," she said. "The need for thorough and effective retraining of police officers in New York City is essential."
Do I need to quote the definition of "homicide" for derspeiss again? :unsure:
i can see accidental death, sure, but to say the cops murdered him is going a bit far. :hmm:
Quote from: Barrister on August 01, 2014, 04:33:03 PM
Do I need to quote the definition of "homicide" for derspeiss again? :unsure:
Maybe not, but you might need to for LaCroix.
Homicide != murder. An accidental death can still be homicide if it was caused by another person. Murder = homicide + the intent to end a life.
:face:
:mad:
:face:
:weep:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2014, 05:39:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 01, 2014, 04:33:03 PM
Do I need to quote the definition of "homicide" for derspeiss again? :unsure:
Maybe not, but you might need to for LaCroix.
Homicide != murder. An accidental death can still be homicide if it was caused by another person. Murder = homicide + the intent to end a life.
murder encompasses a bit more than intent to end a life - reckless indifference (e.g. chokehold) qualifies as well
Hi Kwang. Please tell me you're not in law school. :yuk:
Quote from: KwangTiger on August 02, 2014, 03:44:47 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2014, 05:39:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 01, 2014, 04:33:03 PM
Do I need to quote the definition of "homicide" for derspeiss again? :unsure:
Maybe not, but you might need to for LaCroix.
Homicide != murder. An accidental death can still be homicide if it was caused by another person. Murder = homicide + the intent to end a life.
murder encompasses a bit more than intent to end a life - reckless indifference (e.g. chokehold) qualifies as well
You might need to quote the definition of "murder" for DSB.
Quote from: KwangTiger on August 02, 2014, 03:44:47 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2014, 05:39:08 PM
Homicide != murder. An accidental death can still be homicide if it was caused by another person. Murder = homicide + the intent to end a life.
murder encompasses a bit more than intent to end a life - reckless indifference (e.g. chokehold) qualifies as well
A medical examiner ruling a non-natural manner of death a homicide is a separate distinction from the court's legal definition of homicide.
Quote from: KwangTiger on August 02, 2014, 03:44:47 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2014, 05:39:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 01, 2014, 04:33:03 PM
Do I need to quote the definition of "homicide" for derspeiss again? :unsure:
Maybe not, but you might need to for LaCroix.
Homicide != murder. An accidental death can still be homicide if it was caused by another person. Murder = homicide + the intent to end a life.
murder encompasses a bit more than intent to end a life - reckless indifference (e.g. chokehold) qualifies as well
Woah! It's been ages, welcome back man!
:lol: @ OvB......putz
QuoteFor two weeks after the death of a Staten Island man in police custody, frustration simmered as the city awaited the results of the autopsy. The mayor offered sympathy. The police promised better training. But now, with the medical examiner's conclusion that the death was a homicide, by chokehold and chest compression, the investigation — and most significantly, the question of whether to prosecute any police officers — rests in the hands of the Staten Island district attorney's office.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/nyregion/after-eric-garner-chokehold-prosecuting-police-is-an-option.html?_r=0
Quote from: Syt on July 18, 2014, 10:18:29 AM
My takeaway from stories like these is:
- when dealing with U.S. police, be as unconfrontational as possible, even if you think the police are overstepping their bounds or you're in the right
- when there's someone at the door at weird hours of the night, open up, because it's likely a SWAT team who will storm the place and potentially shoot you if you don't react fast enough
- live as far away from possible felons, so that cops who forgot to check the address for a raid don't fire flashbangs into your baby's bed before they storm the place
You forgot the most important hint:
- don't be black
Quote from: 11B4V on August 15, 2014, 02:16:56 PM
:lol: @ OvB......putz
QuoteFor two weeks after the death of a Staten Island man in police custody, frustration simmered as the city awaited the results of the autopsy. The mayor offered sympathy. The police promised better training. But now, with the medical examiner's conclusion that the death was a homicide, by chokehold and chest compression, the investigation — and most significantly, the question of whether to prosecute any police officers — rests in the hands of the Staten Island district attorney's office.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/nyregion/after-eric-garner-chokehold-prosecuting-police-is-an-option.html?_r=0
Yeah most of us knew this "news" 2 weeks ago. :P
Quote from: KwangTiger on August 02, 2014, 03:44:47 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2014, 05:39:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 01, 2014, 04:33:03 PM
Do I need to quote the definition of "homicide" for derspeiss again? :unsure:
Maybe not, but you might need to for LaCroix.
Homicide != murder. An accidental death can still be homicide if it was caused by another person. Murder = homicide + the intent to end a life.
murder encompasses a bit more than intent to end a life - reckless indifference (e.g. chokehold) qualifies as well
recklessness ("I don't think I can kill someone this way but I should know it" or "I realise that normally I can kill someone this way but shouldn't happen this time") would not in itself be considered an intent (so would count as homicide) unless you are talking about dolus eventualis ("I realise I can kill someone this way but I don't care either way").