Asthmatic Man Dies After NYPD Puts Him in a Chokehold

[Valmy]

In response, Spike Lee burns down a pizzeria.

More evidence America privileges White Property over Black Lives.

[DGuller]

Why did you cut out the "That much seems obvious."

Because while I think this is one of many cases that a) shouldn't happen, and b) need thorough investigation, I found that last comment too judgmental. Wrongdoing as they put it here would IMHO require the cops to overstep their mandate either willfully or out of neglect, which they might not even have done, in which case their policies/procedures would require the investigation, not the cops.

Well, chokehold is illegal. even by NYPD.  There was a case 20 years ago where another overweight guy suffering from asthma died after confrontation with police, and the cop eventually went to jail (though not before being acquitted by the kangaroo NY judge-only court).

[Tamas]

- when dealing with U.S. police, be as unconfrontational as possible, even if you think the police are overstepping their bounds or you're in the right

I just do that with any police or at border crossings. Hell, even in most state offices as well. They have excessive tools at their disposal to make your day or near future miserable, so rationally it doesn't worth it to try and stand up to their asshatery.

[The Minsky Moment]

Well, chokehold is illegal. even by NYPD.  There was a case 20 years ago where another overweight guy suffering from asthma died after confrontation with police, and the cop eventually went to jail (though not before being acquitted by the kangaroo NY judge-only court).

The parenthetical at the end confused me.  What is so odd about a court with only NY judges?  Why would a NY court have out of state judges?

[DGuller]

Well, chokehold is illegal. even by NYPD.  There was a case 20 years ago where another overweight guy suffering from asthma died after confrontation with police, and the cop eventually went to jail (though not before being acquitted by the kangaroo NY judge-only court).

The parenthetical at the end confused me.  What is so odd about a court with only NY judges?  Why would a NY court have out of state judges?

NY applied to court, not judge.  Basically, the cop chose to have his case decided by a judge rather than a jury, which is fair enough in theory, but in practice that's almost a guaranteed acquittal for a cop.  The cop got convicted because the Feds tried him again for civil rights violation (which always strikes as more of a second wrong trying to right the first wrong).

[derspiess]

I just do that with any police or at border crossings.

I tend to be so sleep-deprived when I get back to the US from my Argentina trips that more often than not I give jumbled answers to the customs/immigration person.  I have trouble focusing sometimes as it is and when I'm really tired that can get magnified to the point where my mind just goes blank frequently.  Raises an eyebrow when I struggle to tell them where I'm from or who I just visited.  But I think they eventually conclude that I am probably who I say I am but that I must just be stupid

[garbon]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/cops-react-to-the-death-of-eric-garner.html

[DGuller]

I lurked police forums like that a couple of times.  Didn't exactly give me the biggest respect for cops.  They also seem to grossly misunderstand the concept of discretion, and the fact that this concept doesn't cover discriminatory policies.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Well the chokehold itself as mentioned is prohibited in I'd imagine every police department in America. I know that back in the day (70s? earlier?) police were trained in a type of MMA style rear-choke as a compliance tool that was thought to be safe for both suspect/officer. It ended up though that some people had a habit of not waking back up after being choked out.

[Berkut]

I am not a doctor, but I don't think you can say "I can't breathe" over and over again if the reason you cannot breathe is that someone has placed a chokehold on you that restricts your breathing sufficiently to endanger your life.

If the police used an illegal chokehold, then of course there has to be consequences - but I think people are pretty quick to blame the cops. The guy resisted arrest. That is often, if not always, a violent thing. There are all kinds of bad things that can happen to everyone involved at that point, and one certain way to avoid it - don't resist arrest.

[Caliga]

This is another one of those cases where people that distrust the cops are going to blame them no matter the details, and vice versa.

[garbon]

This is another one of those cases where people that distrust the cops are going to blame them no matter the details, and vice versa.

I'm happy for any instance to be used to rein in the police.

[garbon]

If the police used an illegal chokehold, then of course there has to be consequences - but I think people are pretty quick to blame the cops. The guy resisted arrest. That is often, if not always, a violent thing. There are all kinds of bad things that can happen to everyone involved at that point, and one certain way to avoid it - don't resist arrest.

True. If cops can't arrest citizens, I'd like them to just kill them.

[CountDeMoney]

I saw the video; that wasn't a chokehold as much as it was an attempt to take a very large, very combative man down.

I do give them credit for actually putting their hands on him, as opposed to simply nightsticking him down, which is much easier.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I normally take the line of don't convict the police before we know anything, but I'm white so the police are my friends. But in this case NYPD Commissioner Bratton I believe has already openly said what he saw on the video violates departmental procedure and he's livid. There are different types of chokes, though. Not all of them fully restrict breathing, but all of them when fully applied typically cause you to lose consciousness very quickly so I doubt Garner was fully locked in. Since police aren't supposed to be trained in any type of choke I doubt it was any specifically designed MMA/combat arts type choke.

There's typically a tightness in your chest and difficulty breathing if you're having a heart attack, which is most likely what was happening to Garner.