http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/mar/17/atlanta-food-deserts-stranded-struggling-survive
QuoteAtlanta's food deserts leave its poorest citizens stranded and struggling
It seems unthinkable but in a major US city, thousands cannot get to places where fresh, affordable food is available
In most of the world's densely packed urban areas, you can pick up fresh produce at a stall on the way home from work or buy bread, meat and staples at the cornershop across the street. But in sprawling metro Atlanta, where the model is megamarkets surrounded by mega parking lots, few of us have the option of a quick dash to the store.
When you're trying to figure out what to fix your young children for dinner and you realise you need milk and eggs and a bag of salad greens and chicken breasts, and you have no choice but to load everyone in the minivan and drive five miles through traffic to get to the store, you're feeling the impact of US development patterns that have made Atlanta the third-worst urban food desert in the country (behind only New Orleans and Chicago).
Living in a food desert doesn't just make it tough to get your daily servings of fruit and vegetables. A 2011 Food Trust geographic analysis of income, access to grocery stores and morbidity rates concluded that people who live in metropolitan Atlanta food deserts are more likely to die from nutrition-related sicknesses like diabetes and heart disease.
In Atlanta, the ninth-biggest metropolis of the world's richest country, thousands of people can't get fresh food, and some are getting sick as a result. Which raises a simple question: why can we build multimillion-dollar highway systems and multibillion-dollar stadiums, but not more grocery stores? If we can build a museum dedicated to a soft drink and one that celebrates college football and another that trumpets civil rights, can't we help our neighbours with what seems to be a most essential and basic right: putting an affordable and healthy dinner on the table?
When you talk about Atlanta's food deserts, you have to talk about the three themes entwined in every civic issue in this region: race, class and sprawl. The fact is, food deserts are more prevalent in non-white neighbourhoods. In poor communities, food is more expensive and there are fewer healthy options. Ironically, much of the local produce prized by the city's finest chefs is grown in urban farms in poor neighbourhoods – produce that is often trucked across town to farmers markets in wealthier enclaves. But of all the factors that contribute to Atlanta's food-desert problem, none is more important than transportation. Our low population density combined with a lack of comprehensive public transit means many people simply cannot get to places where fresh food is available.
Atlanta's west side, with its stark contrasts of wealth and poverty, is a microcosm of the region's food desert dilemma. The communities near the Georgia Dome, home of the Atlanta Falcons NFL team, are served by one supermarket (Walmart), one well stocked small store (Shoppers Supermarket), and at least 60 convenience stores that carry little but packaged snacks.
When it moved into Vine City a year ago, Walmart retrofitted and expanded space that had been left vacant when a Publix supermarket moved out of the neighborhood in 2009. Walmart created a scaled-down version of its suburban supercentres – 75,000 sq ft versus 200,000; 13 checkout lanes versus 30.
Ivory Young, who has represented the Vine City area on the Atlanta city council since 2001, said that after Publix decamped, the city approached Walmart and the retailer initially said no. She said: "But they did their own analysis and came to find they were wrong; the community would support it." More than 30,000 people shop here weekly, and while they buy paper towels and bleach and other household products, the store's biggest category is groceries. The top sellers: tilapia, bananas, strawberries (when they're in season) and chicken leg quarters.
The Vine City Walmart is located on Martin Luther King Jr Drive, two blocks from the King family's former redbrick home at 234 Sunset Avenue. When they moved there in the mid-1960s, it was easy to shop for groceries; even though Atlanta's sprawl to the suburbs had started, most people still lived in town and walked to well-stocked corner stores or shopped at small groceries near bus routes. (Not that the area didn't have its problems. In 1966, King and Ralph David Abernathy joined protests that highlighted the living conditions in Vine City: rat-infested houses owned by slumlords, boarded storefronts, no parks or playgrounds.)
But over the past half century, most of Vine City's minimarkets have scaled back or shuttered completely. They lost customers with the flight of middle-class Atlantans – white and black – to the suburbs. Consolidation in the industry meant suppliers began servicing just big suburban chain stores. But one throwback remains: Shoppers Supermarket, tucked into Simpson Plaza, a 1963 shopping centre that is a five-minute walk from the Kings' former home.
From the outside, Shoppers Supermarket does not appear particularly promising. Day in and out, men cluster on the sidewalk in front of the laundry next door, smoking and tossing dice. The storefront is dingy, the sign askew, the doors barricaded by thick burglar bars. But inside, the cases are stocked with fresh meat, fruits, and vegetables, a rare sight among corner stores, where refrigeration units are barren or used to store nonperishables. (I visited one store in Summerhill where produce coolers held hair weaves.)
Cassandra Norris has worked here since 1983 and has been store manager for two decades, a steady presence through three ownership changes (the present owners, Joo Ho and Sunhwa Song, bought Simpson Plaza in 1995 for $465,000). Norris grew up a few blocks away, graduated from Booker T Washington High School in 1978, and has watched generations of families buy groceries. "We stock things to make the older people happy," she said, gesturing toward a meat case that holds smoked meats and ham hocks ($1.49 or 89p a pound). "The younger people are the ground beef generation."
Norris said she strives to keep prices as low as possible. She drives Mrs Song's van to the state farmers' market at Forest Park to pick up all those fresh fruits and vegetables and cut out delivery fees. "I just put it all in the boss lady's van," she said.
Hard data confirms my observation that Norris runs the best-stocked little store in the area. Stephen Barrett wrote his Georgia State University master's thesis on the availability of fresh or local produce in Vine City and English Avenue.
He used an iPhone app to track shelf stock and logged 311 miles by bike as he visited 20 stores. Barrett's findings are dispiriting: half of the stores he surveyed carried zero produce. Of the other 10, most stocked only one or two types of fruit – usually apples or bananas, placed up at the cash register along with lottery tickets and cigarettes.
Shoppers Supermarket, however, stocked 17 types of vegetables and eight kinds of fruit; the only nearby store with greater selection was Walmart (97 varieties of vegetable, 45 types of fruit).
If Shoppers is the best-case scenario for corner stores, a mile down the road, Simpson Food Mart represents the norm. A neatly painted sign touts eggs, milk, groceries and sandwiches. Inside, however, the tiny store smells like smoke and echoes with the electronic clank of four video slot machines that occupy about a third of the floor space. On one of my visits there, the four black stools in front of the machines were occupied by players, while a handful of observers squeezed behind them.
The gaming area might have once held a dairy case; now the few pints of milk and cartons of eggs are stored in minifridges on a counter that also holds wrapped sandwiches.
"We don't stock any fruit or vegetables," the clerk told me when I asked if he had any apples. The closest thing resembling produce I could find in the store was a pint of Tropicana apple juice.
One of the paradoxes of food deserts is that the people living in them often have the highest rates of obesity – and its associated illnesses.
A 2009 study in the journal Pediatrics showed that children who live in neighbourhoods with lots of corner stores consume more calories and are more likely to be obese than children who live in neighborhoods with supermarkets. When King and Abernathy railed against poverty in the 1960s, many poor people were malnourished and severely underweight. Today they are still malnourished – but overweight.
A decade ago, Charles Moore, an Emory and Grady physician, analysed his patient files and found that his worst cases came from one zip code: 30314, home to Vine City and English Avenue.Moore realised that diet contributed to his patients' health problems and began to write "food prescriptions", advocating healthier eating and preventive care. In 2005 he founded the Healing Community Centre, now a full-service clinic on Martin Luther King Jr Drive.
"Instead of talking about a food desert, the better term is really 'food swamp'. There is an abundance of food, but it's not healthy or varied," Kwabena Nkromo told me. Nkromo runs a programme called Atlanta Food & Farm, which aims to connect local growers, store owners and poor neighborhoods.
"It's not a lack of food; it's a lack of good food," he said. Nkromo studied agriculture and economic development at Tuskegee and Clemson; he presumed that he'd work on famine relief in Africa or some other developing region of the world. He did not imagine that he'd be working on urban farm policies in the American south.
Nkromo's work underscores another paradox of food deserts, this one particular to Atlanta. While the south and west sides of the city contain some of the neighborhoods most starved for healthy foods, they also are home to at least a dozen urban agricultural businesses – Patchwork City Farms and Atwood Community Gardens, for instance.
There's a higher density of farms and gardens in this section of metro Atlanta – an arc across the south and west sides that has been dubbed the "fertile crescent" – than elsewhere, but many of them export their produce to other parts of town.
With the aim of keeping more of that locally grown food closer to home and using urban farms as catalysts for other economic development, Nkromo is organising a project, also called the Fertile Crescent. One of the group's pilot projects has been training teens and young adults at a west side shelter called City of Refuge to grow and harvest kale. The trendy green is slated to be processed into Queen of Kale chips – snacks sold online and in places such as the Johns Creek Whole Foods market.
Previously, when the west side farms have tried to sell to their neighbours, there were "socioeconomic, cultural, and racial barriers", wrote Barrett. He surveyed 11 sites in the area and found that only one had tried to sell produce to local stores.
When it came to selling directly, some farmers and garden operators seemed confounded, for example, that locals didn't subscribe to their CSA (community supported agriculture) plans. But a CSA at Patchwork City Farms costs $450 (£270) for 18 weeks; at a weekly cost of $25, that CSA subscription would eat up most of the total allowance for a Georgia resident on food stamps – about $34 a week.
Another farm operated a full season before grasping that the reason its neighbours wouldn't come to its onsite market was that they could only get there by foot. Walking a mile to market isn't an obstacle; trekking home with a 5lb melon is.
The growers' disingenuousness was matched by suspicion on the part of locals. Some see the farms as signs of gentrification, literal landgrabbing efforts by middle class – often white – interlopers. The community garden at Lindsay Street Baptist church in English Avenue is funded by a group of donors, mostly from Buckhead, who also volunteer to plant and harvest produce. Once, when the donors arrived at the church, they were greeted by a picketer holding a sign that read, "Go home, colonialists!"
While the encounter was distressing, Lindsay Street pastor the Rev Anthony Motley said the incident underscored the need for communication and co-operation: "It's only going to happen with a real coalition – across class and colour and the rest – creating something together."
Focusing on groceries alone will never solve deep-rooted problems, Motley said. "Food is important, but what's more important is the issue of employment. We can't create a sustainable society when we are just feeding folks. People want to feed the hungry but don't want to ask why they are hungry."
Forging a consistent and logical strategy from many disparate efforts is the goal of a project called the Georgia Food Oasis. Its members include the Atlanta Community Food Bank, the American Heart Association, Georgia Organics, and the Blank Foundation. The group has a lofty goal: eradicating food deserts across the state. It's starting with a pilot, the Westside Food Oasis.
Cicely Garrett is the food bank's point of contact at the food oasis; last autumn she was appointed to the newly created and curiously titled position of food systems innovation manager. She said: "Being able to feed yourself and your family should not be a privilege in this country."
The pilot will test ideas such as mobile farm trucks, incentives for convenience stores to stock fresh foods, urban farms and wellness education. Solving the problem of our food deserts requires addressing transit and income inequality – people need to get to stores and they need to have money to buy food. Those are intractable, systemic challenges. But when it comes to the third piece of the puzzle, simply making healthy food itself more readily available, there are examples worth replicating. National retailers can change the way they operate and take a chance, as Walmart did in Vine City.
Ah, the south.... :lmfao:
Ah, the guardian.... :lmfao:
I love reading stories that confirm all my biases.
I think they ought to try getting a Trader Joe's there.
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
Personally, I don't mind driving a couple miles to get to a supermarket that has everything rather than having a tiny, generally overpriced market on the corner.
They can eat: McDonald's!
I like how the article undermines its wide usage of the term "food deserts" throughout.
Huh I guess I just go buy eggs and milk and so forth at the Walgreens a few blocks away. They don't have Walgreens in Atlanta?
Produce is a little different but in Austin anyway I have never lived more than a few minutes from a supermarket.
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
Here. Our largest fresh food market just happens to be in the middle Over-the-Rhine. Open 7 days a week and the vendors even take EBT. Plus we have a Kroger in that section of town that operates at a loss just to maintain a presence there, so there's no "food desert" excuse in Cincy.
There's several markets open in Vienna where you can buy fresh fruit and veggies from a stall. There's a small one in a street near me that's open from 6am to 12pm or something like that. The rest of the day it's a normal side street near the main part of this market with its more permanent huts.
I don't think I've ever lived more than fifteen minutes on foot from fresh groceries.
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
Atlanta isn't a food desert, and we have walgreen's and trader joe's plus fresh market, kroger, publix, at least one farmer's market, and people selling fresh fruit on the side of the road.
You generally have to drive places to get anything because the city was built around cars. The worst neighborhoods don't really have many businesses in them probably mostly because most people don't want to die. You can put those facts together and shout "food desert!" I guess.
Not enough well-armed Korean immigrants in Atlanta I suppose.
Piggly Wiggly.
I live within walking distance of a Krogers as well as three rich person grocery stores (Publix, Fresh Market, Whole Foods), and the Wal-mart is technically walkable, if I felt carrying 88lbs. of Diet Sam's Choice sodas two miles was a worthwhile endeavor.
Get your own shopping cart. :D
Quote from: Ideologue on March 17, 2014, 10:27:06 AM
I live within walking distance of a Krogers as well as three rich person grocery stores (Publix, Fresh Market, Whole Foods), and the Wal-mart is technically walkable, if I felt carrying 88lbs. of Diet Sam's Choice sodas two miles was a worthwhile endeavor.
You need to buy carbon credits* (payable to me) if you drive that trip :contract:
*or offsets or whatever
Quote from: Ideologue on March 17, 2014, 10:27:06 AM
I live within walking distance of a Krogers as well as three rich person grocery stores (Publix, Fresh Market, Whole Foods), and the Wal-mart is technically walkable, if I felt carrying 88lbs. of Diet Sam's Choice sodas two miles was a worthwhile endeavor.
Publix is a rich person's grocery store?
I usually shop at Kroger because there is one just over half a mile away, but I think Publix is roughly the same prices as Kroger with nicer stores and a better deli.
Quote from: derspiess on March 17, 2014, 10:31:05 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 17, 2014, 10:27:06 AM
I live within walking distance of a Krogers as well as three rich person grocery stores (Publix, Fresh Market, Whole Foods), and the Wal-mart is technically walkable, if I felt carrying 88lbs. of Diet Sam's Choice sodas two miles was a worthwhile endeavor.
You need to buy carbon credits* (payable to me) if you drive that trip :contract:
*or offsets or whatever
I just giggle when I see those on checkout pages. EAT MY SMOG TREEHUGGERS.
Now give me my 15 boxes of Quisp.
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
Sure, but they're not open all the time, and are far, far away from where people live.
Mmm, food desserts :mmm:
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 10:36:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
Sure, but they're not open all the time, and are far, far away from where people live.
Ah, well I'd say that most major cities have one's in easy reach (New York City apparently has nearly one per neighborhood. :D) and many places can run one's year round (though not necessarily everyday).
Quote from: alfred russel on March 17, 2014, 10:32:41 AM
Publix is a rich person's grocery store?
I usually shop at Kroger because there is one just over half a mile away, but I think Publix is roughly the same prices as Kroger with nicer stores and a better deli.
If you ignore the specials and/or don't have a Kroger card, those will be pretty close. Otherwise, Publix is more expensive. Wal-Mart is of course the cheapest option.
Quote from: Viking on March 17, 2014, 07:48:23 AM
Ah, the south.... :lmfao:
Ah, the guardian.... :lmfao:
I love reading stories that confirm all my biases.
And what biases might those be, other than the racist ones we already know about?
And here comes Seedy :D
Beats two pages of "Niggers? Let 'em starve!" Languish bullshit from you assfucks.
:hugz:
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
Dunno about Alberta but there is a huge one in downtown Toronto.
http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/st-lawrence-market-toronto-named-world-best-food-145127435.html
I. do. not. want. to. go. buy. groceries. everyday. Get it?
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 17, 2014, 11:18:47 AM
I. do. not. want. to. go. buy. groceries. everyday. Get it?
Neither do I, but it's cool to have that option.
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 17, 2014, 11:18:47 AM
I. do. not. want. to. go. buy. groceries. everyday. Get it?
stop popping out kids Canadian Ed anger.
Quote from: Malthus on March 17, 2014, 11:13:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
Dunno about Alberta but there is a huge one in downtown Toronto.
http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/st-lawrence-market-toronto-named-world-best-food-145127435.html
There are three big ones in the city in Calgary. One excellent not that far out of town to the South and an excellent Hutterite market about 45 minutes to the Northwest of the city. Maybe it's just Edmonton that's lacking this?
Quote from: katmai on March 17, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 17, 2014, 11:18:47 AM
I. do. not. want. to. go. buy. groceries. everyday. Get it?
stop popping out kids Canadian Ed anger.
Tell that to BB. Looks like I'm stoping at 2.
Quote from: derspiess on March 17, 2014, 11:21:58 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 17, 2014, 11:18:47 AM
I. do. not. want. to. go. buy. groceries. everyday. Get it?
Neither do I, but it's cool to have that option.
I guess. :hmm:
Quote from: PRC on March 17, 2014, 11:23:01 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 17, 2014, 11:13:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
Dunno about Alberta but there is a huge one in downtown Toronto.
http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/st-lawrence-market-toronto-named-world-best-food-145127435.html
There are three big ones in the city in Calgary. One excellent not that far out of town to the South and an excellent Hutterite market about 45 minutes to the Northwest of the city. Maybe it's just Edmonton that's lacking this?
No, Edmonton has several farmer's markets. Most open only for the summer, though at least the Strathcona market is open year round (Saturday's only). Trouble is, of course, that during the winter there's no fresh produce to buy.
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
There are.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 17, 2014, 11:07:54 AM
Beats two pages of "Niggers? Let 'em starve!" Languish bullshit from you assfucks.
Except nobody is starving.
Quote from: Barrister on March 17, 2014, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: PRC on March 17, 2014, 11:23:01 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 17, 2014, 11:13:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 17, 2014, 08:10:10 AM
Go pick up some produce at a stall? Where can you do that?
I don't know, maybe it's the winters here that prevents those sorts of things from being set up, but I can't imagine doing that.
No farmers' markets in Canada?
Dunno about Alberta but there is a huge one in downtown Toronto.
http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/st-lawrence-market-toronto-named-world-best-food-145127435.html
There are three big ones in the city in Calgary. One excellent not that far out of town to the South and an excellent Hutterite market about 45 minutes to the Northwest of the city. Maybe it's just Edmonton that's lacking this?
No, Edmonton has several farmer's markets. Most open only for the summer, though at least the Strathcona market is open year round (Saturday's only). Trouble is, of course, that during the winter there's no fresh produce to buy.
My sister is going to that one when she can. Still, it looks like my thoughts about climate seem to have some basis.
Then again, I've never been the sort of person to go in for that sort of thing anyways. I live five minutes walk from a supermarket, and so I have all the produce I could want. Then again, Canadian cities have different issues than US ones.
Detroit is often labeled as a food desert. Until last year there were no chain grocery stores in the city. There's two now, a Trader Joes in midtown and a Meijer up near the border with the suburbs. There's a Farmers Market (Eastern Market) but that's only open once a week. And there's a good sized Supermercado in Mexican town where you can get fresh produce.
Three supermarkets aren't very many for a city the size of Detroit. The city is the size of Manhattan, San Francisco and Boston combined. The bus service is as dysfunctional as every other city service. So city residents without a car are forced to rely on party stores which have only shelf stable foods.
Kwame Kilpatrick at one time suggested a tax on fast food; this proved to be so unpopular that even Kwame had to back off almost immediately.
One solution that I've heard proposed is to provide a subsidy to party stores to carry fresh produce. This being Detroit, such a plan would be open to fraud and abuse; but I don't know if there's a better plan. What other incentive do the party store owners have to provide fresh produce?
Are people in Detroit more food insecure than people in the Gaza Strip?
Quote from: Savonarola on March 17, 2014, 04:51:28 PM
Detroit is often labeled as a food desert. Until last year there were no chain grocery stores in the city. There's two now, a Trader Joes in midtown and a Meijer up near the border with the suburbs. There's a Farmers Market (Eastern Market) but that's only open once a week. And there's a good sized Supermercado in Mexican town where you can get fresh produce.
Three supermarkets aren't very many for a city the size of Detroit. The city is the size of Manhattan, San Francisco and Boston combined. The bus service is as dysfunctional as every other city service. So city residents without a car are forced to rely on party stores which have only shelf stable foods.
Kwame Kilpatrick at one time suggested a tax on fast food; this proved to be so unpopular that even Kwame had to back off almost immediately.
One solution that I've heard proposed is to provide a subsidy to party stores to carry fresh produce. This being Detroit, such a plan would be open to fraud and abuse; but I don't know if there's a better plan. What other incentive do the party store owners have to provide fresh produce?
Thats insane, if I throw a rock out from the roof of my house there is a chance I'm going to hit 3 grocery stores & maybe 3 pharmacy. In a 12km radius there is 10 grocery stores.
Quote from: Savonarola on March 17, 2014, 04:51:28 PM
Detroit is often labeled as a food desert. Until last year there were no chain grocery stores in the city. There's two now, a Trader Joes in midtown and a Meijer up near the border with the suburbs. There's a Farmers Market (Eastern Market) but that's only open once a week. And there's a good sized Supermercado in Mexican town where you can get fresh produce.
Three supermarkets aren't very many for a city the size of Detroit. The city is the size of Manhattan, San Francisco and Boston combined. The bus service is as dysfunctional as every other city service. So city residents without a car are forced to rely on party stores which have only shelf stable foods.
Kwame Kilpatrick at one time suggested a tax on fast food; this proved to be so unpopular that even Kwame had to back off almost immediately.
One solution that I've heard proposed is to provide a subsidy to party stores to carry fresh produce. This being Detroit, such a plan would be open to fraud and abuse; but I don't know if there's a better plan. What other incentive do the party store owners have to provide fresh produce?
What are party stores? Is that like a convenience store?
I've noticed in Tampa that chain convenience stores carry some fresh produce(i.e. a basket of apples and bananas) and freshly made, pre-made sandwiches.
http://www2.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=9761
So looks like Detroit term.
QuoteI told him ads over eight square feet are illegal in the U.S.,
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmetricmarketing.ca%2Ffiles%2Fwpu%2F2011%2F04%2Ftwitterashtonpic1.jpg&hash=20fa70505d14763cee2c9bcbd6a07cc6f57c7652)
How weird. In London even the little corner shops carry fresh fruit and veg. It'll often be over-priced and verging on rotten, but it's there.
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
You haven't had a banana in months, have you?
They're good for you. (Tm)
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 18, 2014, 07:32:08 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
You haven't had a banana in months, have you?
Bananas are actually alright. They're the one fruit that doesn't have a serious texture problem in an unprocessed state.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
Not only are they good for you, but they also make it easier to eat an appropriate amount of calories.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:47:28 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 18, 2014, 07:32:08 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
You haven't had a banana in months, have you?
Bananas are actually alright. They're the one fruit that doesn't have a serious texture problem in an unprocessed state.
Texture problem?
You are such a fucking weirdo Ide
Quote from: Neil on March 18, 2014, 07:48:09 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
Not only are they good for you, but they also make it easier to eat an appropriate amount of calories.
Well, that's good, but why not canned pears or pineapples? :)
Actually, pineapples are okay raw too. Jalapenos also, if you count those (though they're still better pickled).
Quote from: El LarchoTexture problem?
Oh, yes. Apples taste like apple-flavored cardboard. Oranges like orange-flavored spiderwebs. Grapes like plastic bags filled with grape juice. And so forth.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:08:54 AMQuote from: El LarchoTexture problem?
Oh, yes. Apples taste like apple-flavored cardboard. Oranges like orange-flavored spiderwebs. Grapes like plastic bags filled with grape juice. And so forth.
What are you, 8?
:tinfoil:
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:08:54 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 18, 2014, 07:48:09 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
Not only are they good for you, but they also make it easier to eat an appropriate amount of calories.
Well, that's good, but why not canned pears or pineapples? :)
Because all the syrup isn't so good for you.
Quote from: The Larch on March 18, 2014, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:08:54 AMQuote from: El LarchoTexture problem?
Oh, yes. Apples taste like apple-flavored cardboard. Oranges like orange-flavored spiderwebs. Grapes like plastic bags filled with grape juice. And so forth.
What are you, 8?
Texture is an important part of the dining experience. That's why some cuts of beef are considered better than others. Anyway, relax. I drink their juices, use their flavors; I merely deride their pulp.
Quote from: Neil on March 18, 2014, 08:12:29 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:08:54 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 18, 2014, 07:48:09 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
What is everyone's Goddamned hard-on about fresh fruits and vegetables? :wacko:
Not only are they good for you, but they also make it easier to eat an appropriate amount of calories.
Well, that's good, but why not canned pears or pineapples? :)
Because all the syrup isn't so good for you.
Next you'll tell me that putting mayonnaise and shredded cheddar cheese on them has its downsides too. :P
It seems to me that Ide has no sense of smell.
That doesn't seem to follow.
What about veggies?
I like raw onions.
Ide on mouthfeel. :bleeding:
Quote from: garbon on March 18, 2014, 08:29:32 AM
Ide on mouthfeel. :bleeding:
I call it texture. I guess you call it something that sounds gross. :yuk:
Ugh, the term 'mouthfeel'. :yucky:
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:30:45 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 18, 2014, 08:29:32 AM
Ide on mouthfeel. :bleeding:
I call it texture. I guess you call it something that sounds gross. :yuk:
No I used that term because it seemed appropriate for your attitude in these last few posts. Gross like a Lettow.
'Mouthfeel' is a legit term for wine & beer tasting.
Anyplace without a Wegmans must be intolerable.
Quote from: derspiess on March 18, 2014, 08:42:15 AM
'Mouthfeel' is a legit term for wine & beer tasting.
It is used by annoying prats. Like Beer drinkers.
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2014, 08:48:48 AM
Anyplace without a Wegmans must be intolerable.
:unsure:
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 18, 2014, 08:49:40 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 18, 2014, 08:42:15 AM
'Mouthfeel' is a legit term for wine & beer tasting.
It is used by annoying prats. Like Beer drinkers.
:cheers:
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:20:23 AM
That doesn't seem to follow.
You are giving too much into textures because you can't taste for shits.
A gentleman drinks brandy. Mixed with painkillers.
:bowler:
Quote from: derspiess on March 18, 2014, 08:42:15 AM
'Mouthfeel' is a legit term for wine & beer tasting.
Also coffee and chocolate.
Anyone who uses it in conversation deserves a smack though.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 18, 2014, 08:58:11 AM
A gentleman drinks brandy. Mixed with painkillers.
:bowler:
Worked for Marilyn Monroe.
So about gin and sleeping pills? :unsure:
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 18, 2014, 08:58:04 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:20:23 AM
That doesn't seem to follow.
You are giving too much into textures because you can't taste for shits.
Then I must not have been able to taste when I was five, because I fucking hated oranges then, too.
Yes, you have no sense of smell.
Mouthfeel is what Mickey D's is best at.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 18, 2014, 11:10:27 AM
Mouthfeel is what Mickey D's is best at.
Also Sasha Grey.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:16:23 AM
Anyway, relax. I drink their juices, use their flavors; I merely deride their pulp.
I don't think that fruit juice is really so healthy. With the amount of sugar it contains, it is about as bad as soda.
Quote from: alfred russel on March 18, 2014, 11:24:23 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:16:23 AM
Anyway, relax. I drink their juices, use their flavors; I merely deride their pulp.
I don't think that fruit juice is really so healthy. With the amount of sugar it contains, it is about as bad as soda.
But he drinks tons of diet soda to cancel it out, so it's all good.
Reese's Cup are also, nutrionally speaking, a wash.
Quote from: derspiess on March 18, 2014, 11:34:57 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 18, 2014, 11:24:23 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 08:16:23 AM
Anyway, relax. I drink their juices, use their flavors; I merely deride their pulp.
I don't think that fruit juice is really so healthy. With the amount of sugar it contains, it is about as bad as soda.
But he drinks tons of diet soda to cancel it out, so it's all good.
Indeed, Alfred needs to learn some science and find out about pH levels before he derides Ide's scientific approach to diet.
Now I'm eating day-old cookies. Texture: ideal.
It's important to keep the humors - black bile, yellow bilde, blood and phlegm - in balance is all.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 12:42:52 PM
Now I'm eating day-old cookies. Texture: ideal.
Wrong. Texture is ideal shortly after they come out of the oven.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 18, 2014, 12:52:01 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 12:42:52 PM
Now I'm eating day-old cookies. Texture: ideal.
Wrong. Texture is ideal shortly after they come out of the oven.
Hell, *as* they're coming out of the oven :)
Mushy.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 03:51:52 PM
Mushy.
Yep. And so hot you'll hear your saliva sizzling.
Mouthfeel: 3rd degree burn.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 18, 2014, 08:58:11 AM
A gentleman drinks brandy. Mixed with painkillers.
:bowler:
Quite. :bowler:
I should make a banana pudding.
Quote from: derspiess on March 18, 2014, 12:53:59 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 18, 2014, 12:52:01 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 18, 2014, 12:42:52 PM
Now I'm eating day-old cookies. Texture: ideal.
Wrong. Texture is ideal shortly after they come out of the oven.
Hell, *as* they're coming out of the oven :)
OK Ed.
Gross
Quote from: garbon on March 18, 2014, 08:56:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2014, 08:48:48 AM
Anyplace without a Wegmans must be intolerable.
:unsure:
Wegmans is a very nice place, but kinda disproportionally overrated by its fans.
I feel dirty unless I am shopping at Andronico's