It begins.
I'm a bit late on this, but Rick Reilly (of all people) has a good article on Ray Lewis:
Quote
Getting right with Ray Lewis
Rick Reilly thought he knew Ray Lewis. And then he met him.
Originally Published: December 20, 2013
By Rick Reilly | ESPN.com
For years, Ray Lewis projected an intense, fiery professional image. His new job requires a more relaxed approach but no less passion.
The times I loathe myself the most are when I'm so cocksure of something, so bulletproof screwed-down certain, that I don't make room for the possibility that I might not be just wrong, I might be loud wrong.
Take, for instance, Ray Lewis.
Despised him. Didn't trust him. Didn't matter that I didn't know him.
Didn't care that he was a 13-time Pro Bowl linebacker. Never liked the dance. Never liked all of the God speeches. Remember what he said after last season's Super Bowl win? "When God is for you, who can be against you?" What did the 49ers do to piss off God? Never saw any reason a man needed black paint all over his face to play football. It's not faceblack. It's eyeblack.
So when ESPN announced in the offseason that he was joining us on the "Monday Night Countdown" crew? Stuck on the "Monday Night Football" bus with him? Hell on wheels.
I suppose, secretly, I was nervous. I'd criticized him plenty in his 17-year career. Is there anybody in America you'd want mad at you less than Ray Lewis?
And then we met.
Turns out I was a fool. Ray Lewis is not the man I thought he was. He is friendly, open and honest. He wants to laugh -- at himself first and second, and maybe you third. If he's read the things I've written about him, he's not letting on.
You spend 10 hours with a guy every Monday, you get to know him. He plays Words With Friends. He studies photography. His kids light up his phone.
He has his bodyguard -- as though he needs one -- pull soldiers, Marines and sailors out of the crowd, just to meet and thank them.
I've never been around anybody who pours passion out of his every cell like this man. Until Lewis came, we'd watch the game in the MNF bus. Now, we watch the game and we watch Ray.
The yelling. The jumping out of the chair as if it were suddenly made of snakes. The trying to pull his face off with anguish. And this isn't even during a Ravens game. This is Vikings-Giants.
"Rick, man, that is BASIC!" "Oh, no! No, that's TERRIBLE!" "What's he doing!? Man, what is he DOING???"
The other night, he was in the stands watching his son play safety in a high school game. He's tried not to miss a single football game, volleyball game, dance recital of any of his six kids since he quit the NFL after last season. His son and his teammates were falling for the same trick over and over. Lewis' brain was about to fall out of his ears. Finally, he ran down, jumped the fence, gathered them up and explained what was happening.
He can't help but try to fix things. During one on-field postgame show, he saw how we all were freezing, and the next week bought us all battery-powered heated gloves and heated vests. Wrapped them up and everything.
Right across from me, every Monday night, was one of the great leaders football has ever produced. So I started asking him questions.
After a big Jets fight: "Ever fight on the field, Ray?"
"No. Never. I always said, 'Meet me afterward. We'll deal with this then.' And they'd never show up. Except once. He came. He saw me walking toward him. He turned and walked the other way."
After Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant walked off the field because he didn't want cameras to catch him crying: "Ever cry on the field, Ray?"
"I used to. Used to get mad, too. But after losing in the 2006 playoffs (to Peyton Manning and the Colts), I was driving my family home, just mad. All of a sudden, my mom grabbed my arm and said, 'What's wrong with this car?' I didn't know what she was talking about. She said, 'Nobody's talking. Everybody's scared to say a word. That's because of YOU. You made everybody in this car miserable. I NEVER want to see you act this way again. You play the game, you do your very best, and when it's over, it's OVER.' That changed my life."
Maybe that's why, minutes after the Ravens lost in the 2011 AFC title game to the Patriots, Lewis gathered all of his disheartened teammates and barked: "Don't EVER drop your head when it comes to a loss, dog. Because there's too much PAIN outside of this that people are really going through ... Let's understand who we are as men. Let's make somebody smile when we walk out of here."
After we saw a piece on a player who'd grown up without a father: "Has your father ever re-surfaced, Ray?"
"He did. I was 33. You only get one chance at life, man. You can be bitter and pissed off all you want but time don't stop for nobody. I wanted to make sure he knew that I forgave him."
And two weeks ago, on Dec. 7, Ray Lewis was the best man at his father's wedding in Tampa.
"He's a very sophisticated dude," says Steve Young, another bus citizen. "I would've loved to play with him."
I'm about as different from Ray Lewis as a man can get. He ascribes everything that happens to God's will. I ascribe none of it. He rarely drinks. I keep entire breweries in the black. He's a player at heart and I'm a writer at heart and almost never do the twain mix. As he says, "I always thought writers were nothin' but dangerous."
And yet, somehow, we've become close. We laugh at our failures. Knuckle our successes. Help each other through. He is a good man. And maybe I'm not the man I thought I was for judging him.
There's no reason you should believe any of this, of course. No company is going to let you rip a fellow employee. So I guess I'm only writing it as a memo to myself:
Throwing a person under the bus is not nearly as fun as becoming friends ON one.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10154437/rick-reilly-misunderstanding-ray-lewis
So the Chargers or Steelers are in :lol:
Kinda funny, isn't it?
Still, I don't really think it matters. The Colts are bad, the Bengals are bad, the Chiefs are one-dimensional, the Chargers are soft and the Steelers are pathetic.
I think the Colts are better than bad. If Neckbeard catches a hot hand they could be dangerous.
None of the afc teams wows me.
Ugh Broncos vs Raiders? Really CBS.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 29, 2013, 04:23:09 PM
I think the Colts are better than bad. If Neckbeard catches a hot hand they could be dangerous.
Maybe. They just haven't been the same since Reggie Wayne went down. They feasted on a weak schedule.
I am not sorry to see the Dolphins eliminated though, after the reprehensible way they treated Richie Incognito.
4 INT from Bubby Brister 2.0. Good job Andy.
Can it be confirmed that the scab officials weren't brought back? Cause these guys in Seahawks-Rams game are horrible.
Pretty good Pack/Bear game. GB down by 2, two minutes to go, just got stuffed on third down.
GB inexplicably chose to kick the PA down by 2. :wacko:
:bleeding:
Bwhahahah Bears.
So as Niner fan do i want them to go to Philly or Green Bay ? :unsure:
Green Bay it is!
Who Dey.
Nice to see the Steelers get knocked out like that. Not that I thought they'd beat us at home next week, but out of concern over cheap shots and injuries.
Quote from: derspiess on December 29, 2013, 09:51:15 PM
Nice to see the Steelers get knocked out like that.
It's like a late Christmas present.
So, after today's devastating but entirely predictable loss, I have no idea who I want to win the Superbowl. I generally prefer AFC teams, but the only AFC team that has a chance is the Broncos. As much as I like Peyton Manning, I hate Bronco fans and feel that that team has mistreated too many people. So maybe Seattle? They seem the most complete. The 49ers are vulnerable at QB and the Saints seem to be retarded when they're not playing at home.
Seriously Browns? Firing Chud after one season is terrible. :glare:
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 12:24:15 AM
So, after today's devastating but entirely predictable loss, I have no idea who I want to win the Superbowl. I generally prefer AFC teams, but the only AFC team that has a chance is the Broncos. As much as I like Peyton Manning, I hate Bronco fans and feel that that team has mistreated too many people. So maybe Seattle? They seem the most complete. The 49ers are vulnerable at QB and the Saints seem to be retarded when they're not playing at home.
3 reasons not to support Seattle:
1) Pete Carroll
2) Paul Allen
3) The stadium, that either by architecture or outright cheating, is stupidly loud.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 30, 2013, 09:43:40 AM
Seriously Browns? Firing Chud after one season is terrible. :glare:
Yeah that seems messed up. At least give the dude two seasons.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 30, 2013, 09:43:40 AM
Seriously Browns? Firing Chud after one season is terrible. :glare:
Yeah that seems messed up. At least give the dude two seasons.
I love Chud from his playing days at the U (best memory--going ass over head to catch a TD pass to put away #1 FSU just before halftime in 1988). But I really don't know why the Browns gave him 1 year to begin with.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 10:02:56 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 12:24:15 AM
So, after today's devastating but entirely predictable loss, I have no idea who I want to win the Superbowl. I generally prefer AFC teams, but the only AFC team that has a chance is the Broncos. As much as I like Peyton Manning, I hate Bronco fans and feel that that team has mistreated too many people. So maybe Seattle? They seem the most complete. The 49ers are vulnerable at QB and the Saints seem to be retarded when they're not playing at home.
3 reasons not to support Seattle:
1) Pete Carroll
2) Paul Allen
3) The stadium, that either by architecture or outright cheating, is stupidly loud.
I don't have a beef with Paul Allen or the stadium, but Carroll is a dick, isn't he?
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 30, 2013, 09:43:40 AM
Seriously Browns? Firing Chud after one season is terrible. :glare:
There's a reason that they're one of the worst organizations in the league. Every coach is a lame duck.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
I love Chud from his playing days at the U (best memory--going ass over head to catch a TD pass to put away #1 FSU just before halftime in 1988). But I really don't know why the Browns gave him 1 year to begin with.
It seems retarded to give any coach just one year, regardless of who they are.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 10:31:21 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
I love Chud from his playing days at the U (best memory--going ass over head to catch a TD pass to put away #1 FSU just before halftime in 1988). But I really don't know why the Browns gave him 1 year to begin with.
It seems retarded to give any coach just one year, regardless of who they are.
The only time I think a one-year firing was justified was Cam Cameron. A monkey with a random number generator would have been a better HC.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 30, 2013, 10:38:30 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 10:31:21 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
I love Chud from his playing days at the U (best memory--going ass over head to catch a TD pass to put away #1 FSU just before halftime in 1988). But I really don't know why the Browns gave him 1 year to begin with.
It seems retarded to give any coach just one year, regardless of who they are.
The only time I think a one-year firing was justified was Cam Cameron. A monkey with a random number generator would have been a better HC.
And yet he was Ravens OC for four and a half years... :(
The Browns need the Sweater Vest. Make the call to Akron, you chumps.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 30, 2013, 09:43:40 AM
Seriously Browns? Firing Chud after one season is terrible. :glare:
That's why they're the Browns.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 30, 2013, 10:43:02 AM
The Browns need the Sweater Vest. Make the call to Akron, you chumps.
What if they fired Chud knowing they could bring in the Sweater Vest? Would it then start to look like a good move to the doubters?
No, because they could have brought the Vest in last year.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 10:48:52 AM
No, because they could have brought the Vest in last year.
Disagree. It would look like last year they made a mistake hiring Chud. Not that this year they made a mistake by bringing in Tressel.
What do you disagree with? Tressel wasn't doing anything last year that would have prevented him from taking the head coaching job. If they had wanted him, they would have hired him, not someone else.
It's just the Browns being the Browns.
Tressel's manly gaze would discombulate opposing coaches and make Dan Dierdorf's head explode.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 10:56:05 AM
What do you disagree with? Tressel wasn't doing anything last year that would have prevented him from taking the head coaching job. If they had wanted him, they would have hired him, not someone else.
It's just the Browns being the Browns.
What I knew about Chud prior to their hiring him led me to believe he was a shitty coach. Going 4-12 doesn't change that. Admittedly going 4-12 with the Browns this year isn't necessarily disgraceful, but it is 4-12.
They realized that whatever they were thinking at the beginning of the year was wrong, and now they are probably going to hire someone they could have hired last year (even if not Tressel). They made a stupid decision last year, and now aren't going to compound it by letting the guy continue to win games at a 25% clip until he meets everyone's standard of being given a fair shot.
Lets put it this way, and assuming our two options are Chud or Tressel:
At the beginning of the year: The Browns answered the question, "who gives us the best chance to win" with Chud. That was dumb.
Today: The Browns answered the question with Tressel, and that is smart.
Of course in reality they probably will answer it with Romeo Crennel, but hey, these are the Browns.
It is 4-12 in his first year. A non stupid team usually will want to find out if the coach can show enough improvement in their next year, because the first year will involve a lot of changes.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 11:06:17 AM
It is 4-12 in his first year. A non stupid team usually will want to find out if the coach can show enough improvement in their next year, because the first year will involve a lot of changes.
I don't know the answer to this question, but does history prove this out? Do second year coaches post better records than first year coaches?
I would imagine coaches who are worthy of being kept around tend to show improvement in their second year vs. their "rookie" year, yes. There isn't any way to know if they're going to improve on their first year if you don't actually give them another one.
E: And it's not like 4-12 is some abnormal season record lately for the Browns or anything. I just noticed there was a new GM this year too.
The players aren't very happy about the firing.
QuoteCleveland Browns Players Went Ballistic After Their Coach Got Fired
The Cleveland Browns fired coach Rob Chudzinski last night after a 4-12 season.
It came as a surprise for two reasons, 1) he was less than 12 months into a four-year contract, and 2) the team had two major quarterback injuries and traded their starting running back in September.
Browns players are not happy. When news of his firing became official, many of them delivered some brutally honest quotes.
Offensive lineman Jason Pinkston sent this text to Mike Silver of NFL Network:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl3.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FC7gjFSbZNu7.qCbG6rPEfg--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTgwMA--%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F52c17d61ecad044b281cf3e4-960%2Fsilver-text.jpg&hash=8f045be84daeab542d034901cb981460b569088e)
SI's Peter King reports that both D'Qwell Jackson and Joe Thomas were upset by the firing. Jackson told King that the firing was "crazy," saying:
"On the bus back to Pittsburgh, [defensive teammate] Jabaal Sheard showed me a text from his agent that said Chud could be fired. I said, 'No way. No way.' After the Trent Richardson trade and our quarterback injuries, I thought for sure he'd get a pass. Not one year. Come on. One year? There's no way. Chud was good for us, good for the team. He came in and did everything right, I thought."
Another player went after owner Jimmy Haslam:
I am texting with numerous Browns players and their emotions range from bewildered to furious
— Michael Silver (@MikeSilver) December 29, 2013
One Browns player: "We are so dysfunctional. These billionaires need to pick somebody and stay with them. These aren't girlfriends..."
— Michael Silver (@MikeSilver) December 29, 2013
"... you can't dump them if they (fail to please you) one time."
— Michael Silver (@MikeSilver) December 29, 2013
Another Browns player: "This organization is a joke."
— Michael Silver (@MikeSilver) December 29, 2013
It's a mess:
#Browns LB D'Qwell Jackson said he's mad that folks are speculating that Chud will be fired. "He's a great coach.'' Can't even fathom firing
— Mary Kay Cabot (@MaryKayCabot) December 29, 2013
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cleveland-browns-players-went-ballistic-142301494.html
Shanahan is out. That's interesting. Redskins rebuilding project take 12.
Why would anyone think that Tressel is even capable of coaching at that level?
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2013, 11:54:15 AM
Shanahan is out. That's interesting. Redskins rebuilding project take 12.
That is the least surprising change that will happen today.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 11:23:36 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 11:06:17 AM
It is 4-12 in his first year. A non stupid team usually will want to find out if the coach can show enough improvement in their next year, because the first year will involve a lot of changes.
I don't know the answer to this question, but does history prove this out? Do second year coaches post better records than first year coaches?
Small sample size but Bill Belichick went 5-11 in his first year with New England.
EDIT: And Pete Carroll made a nice jump in the third year at both of his NFL jobs.
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2013, 11:54:15 AM
Shanahan is out. That's interesting. Redskins rebuilding project take 12.
Yeah, but that went without saying.
Quote from: sbr on December 30, 2013, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2013, 11:54:15 AM
Shanahan is out. That's interesting. Redskins rebuilding project take 12.
That is the least surprising change that will happen today.
Shanahan is probably the last big name Snyder is going to be able to bribe into taking that job.
The point is, good team rarely make a coaching change. So a first year head coach is almost always in a bad spot and it seems silly to smoke a guy 356 days after he takes a shitty job, especially after all 3 QBs on the roster got hurt at some point during the season and you trade a decent player* for a draft pick.
Coaches matter more in football than any other of the big 4 pro sports, but not as much as talent.
*Maybe Trent Richardson was their best player, but if so the problems run deeper than we thought.
The Vikings turfed Leslie Frazier.
And the Buccaneers fired Schiano and their GM.
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2013, 11:58:26 AM
Quote from: sbr on December 30, 2013, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2013, 11:54:15 AM
Shanahan is out. That's interesting. Redskins rebuilding project take 12.
That is the least surprising change that will happen today.
Shanahan is probably the last big name Snyder is going to be able to bribe into taking that job.
I would think so. But then again, the Redskins are going to be failing for quite some time to come. A Jerry Jones-type guy is almost never successful. Jones himself had a brief period, but in the long run the only guy who could be owner and GM successfully was Al Davis, and even he spent the last decade of his life in abject failure.
The Lions fired Schwartz.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 12:10:10 PM
The Lions fired Schwartz.
Ah good. I was afraid they were going to hang onto him for one more year.
Schwartz was the worst coach.
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 12:06:54 PM
But then again, the Redskins are going to be failing for quite some time to come.
Oh really? I am so glad I have you around to tell me these things :P
They have been failing since 1992 so I think I can take it.
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 12:12:42 PM
Schwartz was the worst coach.
I don't think he was the worst. I think he deserves some credit for taking a disaster of a team to respectability pretty quickly. It is pretty clear that he isn't a top level playoff coach though. The complete lack of discipline in all phases has to be put on him and that is the Lions' biggest problem now; they are very talented they just need to clean things up to become a dangerous playoff team.
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 11:54:55 AM
Why would anyone think that Tressel is even capable of coaching at that level?
The better question is why anyone though Chudzinski was capable of coaching at a level above TE coach. His non GA / TE coach history:
2001 - 2003 - Miami Hurricanes OC - was about to get fired when he bolted to the Browns as TE coach
2007-2008 - Cleveland Browns OC - fired
2011-2012 - Panthers OC - How would you evaluate his job there after seeing the Panthers after he left?
At least Tressel had success as a head coach at another level of football.
My research:
The following coaches were hired in 2012. The number represents the 2013 improvement / (worsening) of their record vs. their first year.
Chuck Pagano (Colts): -
Joe Philbin (Fins): +1
Dennis Allen (Raiders): -
Greg Schiano (Bucs): (3)
Granted that still isn't a large sample size, but it doesn't seem to show much of a trend of improvement. In the NFL, there is so much roster turnover, parity, and similarity in styles that I think to an extent you are what you are.
That isn't to say that a good coach can't turn in a bad record with difficult circumstances, and I think the Browns had difficult circumstances in 2013.
I tend to think head coaches are figureheads. The OC and the DC have to call every single play. What does a head coach do? He pats everyones's ass and he makes a handful of crucial decisions like go for it or punt on 4th.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2013, 02:12:16 PM
I tend to think head coaches are figureheads. The OC and the DC have to call every single play. What does a head coach do? He pats everyones's ass and he makes a handful of crucial decisions like go for it or punt on 4th.
The Browns are supposedly keeping the assistants and coordinators. :lol:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 02:17:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2013, 02:12:16 PM
I tend to think head coaches are figureheads. The OC and the DC have to call every single play. What does a head coach do? He pats everyones's ass and he makes a handful of crucial decisions like go for it or punt on 4th.
The Browns are supposedly keeping the assistants and coordinators. :lol:
They can't be doing that...Who would take the head coaching job in such a situation?
Quote from: sbr on December 30, 2013, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 12:12:42 PM
Schwartz was the worst coach.
I don't think he was the worst. I think he deserves some credit for taking a disaster of a team to respectability pretty quickly. It is pretty clear that he isn't a top level playoff coach though. The complete lack of discipline in all phases has to be put on him and that is the Lions' biggest problem now; they are very talented they just need to clean things up to become a dangerous playoff team.
He also made a lot of coaching errors, time management errors, all kinds of nonsense. He made this year's Lions a worse team by being there.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 02:19:04 PM
They can't be doing that...Who would take the head coaching job in such a situation?
Josh McDaniels.
Really, it's the same list of people who would want to take over knowing they'll get fired if they don't win, with the fucking Browns, in their first year.
E: There had to be more there than W/L records as the reason he got shitcanned. It's not like Cam Cameron where the guy took at least an okay-ish team and ran it straight into the ground. He managed to keep it about the same as every other recent Browns season while installing his new system and everything else that went on this year for that horrific franchise.
E2: Also, the apparent argument that coaches don't improve with experience is strange.
Hire Kiffin!
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 02:21:46 PM
E2: Also, the apparent argument that coaches don't improve with experience is strange.
Why is it strange?
Yes, you would think a guy that does something gets better at it with experience. But these guys have been coaching their adult lives. Once they get over the newness of being a head coach they work such long hours they also have to burn out a bit.
Also, a new coach can come in and take a fresh look at a roster and how things are being done. He also has a fresh message for the players. These are benefits that fade in year 2.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 02:21:46 PM
E: There had to be more there than W/L records as the reason he got shitcanned. It's not like Cam Cameron where the guy took at least an okay-ish team and ran it straight into the ground. He managed to keep it about the same as every other recent Browns season while installing his new system and everything else that went on this year for that horrific franchise.
They have a new GM. Can you really explain to me, based on his resume, why Chud is an NFL head coach? If I'm a GM, and I want to start building a long term successful franchise, why would I stick with a guy that I probably don't think is head coaching material to begin with?
His cool name.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 02:39:52 PM
They have a new GM. Can you really explain to me, based on his resume, why Chud is an NFL head coach? If I'm a GM, and I want to start building a long term successful franchise, why would I stick with a guy that I probably don't think is head coaching material to begin with?
I'm not the Browns. If the Browns front office don't think dude is NFL head coach material, why did they hire him in the first place? It isn't just the GM involved in this sort of thing.
Also, the fact that there's a brand new rookie GM (who was most recently an NFL.com columnist, as far as I can tell, and hadn't been "in football" for something like 5 or 6 years) means it's probably a good idea to see if the new HC and new GM work well together. You know, instead of just throwing them together in the middle of what appears to be a firesale/rebuild type season where they're getting rid of a lot of the guys from when Shurmur was HC. Shurmur, who's W/L record improved in his second year btw, was the guy who was fired when the new ownership came in and picked up Chud and Lombardi (replaced Heckert).
E:
QuoteWhy is it strange?
Yes, you would think a guy that does something gets better at it with experience. But these guys have been coaching their adult lives. Once they get over the newness of being a head coach they work such long hours they also have to burn out a bit.
Also, a new coach can come in and take a fresh look at a roster and how things are being done. He also has a fresh message for the players. These are benefits that fade in year 2.
Why is it strange that people tend to get better at something the more they do it? I mean, some do, some don't, but the point is there's no way to really know if you don't actually give them a chance. You keep saying this guy Chud isn't head coach material, or something similar, but how do you know? He was given one year to do it, in a shitty dumpster fire organization, with a new GM, and whoever the fuck at QB, etcetcetc.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 02:39:52 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 02:21:46 PM
E: There had to be more there than W/L records as the reason he got shitcanned. It's not like Cam Cameron where the guy took at least an okay-ish team and ran it straight into the ground. He managed to keep it about the same as every other recent Browns season while installing his new system and everything else that went on this year for that horrific franchise.
They have a new GM. Can you really explain to me, based on his resume, why Chud is an NFL head coach? If I'm a GM, and I want to start building a long term successful franchise, why would I stick with a guy that I probably don't think is head coaching material to begin with?
Yeah, that's the sort of thinking that would have ensured John Harbaugh never got hired.
But seriously, what if you aged Chud?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 02:55:30 PM
Why is it strange that people tend to get better at something the more they do it?
I just posted some reasons they may not. :huh:
It seems like this is something there is enough quantitative data to answer. Take every coach hired since 2000, and see if they improved or regressed in year 2.
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 03:08:23 PM
But seriously, what if you aged Chud?
Projecting that a 20 year old Andre Johnson will be an all pro receiver at 25 is one thing.
Chudzinski is 45. If you age him much more he is liable to have alzheimer's, and I doubt that will make him a better coach.
It's not a simple question of data though. That makes it more difficult.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 03:10:16 PM
I just posted some reasons they may not. :huh:
It seems like this is something there is enough quantitative data to answer. Take every coach hired since 2000, and see if they improved or regressed in year 2.
You're going to have to look at more than just a W/L record if you want to do it like the Browns apparently didn't. There's simply no way to know what this guy Chud would be like in the future, given what he had to work with in that one year.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 03:08:23 PM
But seriously, what if you aged Chud?
Projecting that a 20 year old Andre Johnson will be an all pro receiver at 25 is one thing.
Chudzinski is 45. If you age him much more he is liable to have alzheimer's, and I doubt that will make him a better coach.
Belichick was a better coach at 50 than he was at 45.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 03:16:56 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 03:10:16 PM
I just posted some reasons they may not. :huh:
It seems like this is something there is enough quantitative data to answer. Take every coach hired since 2000, and see if they improved or regressed in year 2.
You're going to have to look at more than just a W/L record if you want to do it like the Browns apparently didn't.
Seriously though, who do you think knows better how to run an NFL franchise? A bunch of Languishites, or the people who have led the Cleveland Browns as of late?
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 03:18:42 PM
Seriously though, who do you think knows better how to run an NFL franchise? A bunch of Languishites, or the people who have led the Cleveland Browns as of late?
:lol: Madden 25 (or whatever it is this year) on auto would probably run that franchise better than the real thing right now.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 30, 2013, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 03:18:42 PM
Seriously though, who do you think knows better how to run an NFL franchise? A bunch of Languishites, or the people who have led the Cleveland Browns as of late?
:lol: Madden 25 (or whatever it is this year) on auto would probably run that franchise better than the real thing right now.
Now THAT would be a bold move.
"The Cleveland Browns have hired EA to be their new head coach."
I would watch the shit out of that. The totally random playcalling on O and D would be great entertainment too.
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 03:15:22 PM
It's not a simple question of data though. That makes it more difficult.
If you want to make a generic statement that you can expect improvement in a head coach's second year, then it is.
The general rule may not apply to Chudzinski, but then no one has brought up those brilliant moments on his resume. He is also 45, which is not remarkably young to get a first time head coaching job.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2013, 03:28:01 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 03:15:22 PM
It's not a simple question of data though. That makes it more difficult.
If you want to make a generic statement that you can expect improvement in a head coach's second year, then it is.
The general rule may not apply to Chudzinski, but then no one has brought up those brilliant moments on his resume. He is also 45, which is not remarkably young to get a first time head coaching job.
There's more to a football team's performance than just data though.
Speaking of new coaches, the Texans are apparently interested in Bill O'Brien. I know nothing about him except he's a former OC in New England, and is currently at Pedo State.
If they do hire him, I hope they give him at least 2, but hopefully more like 3 years to go ffrom the old O Kubes and co. run to whatever it is he does.
What the shit:
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=27121
QuoteThere were disagreements between Chudzinski and General Manager Mike Lombardi, though Banner regarded them as healthy and not out of line.
Other smaller issues arose. At one point, Chudzinski was urged by Banner to "shake up" the locker room by cutting wide receiver Greg Little or guard Shawn Lauvao. Chudzinski declined, and that was interpreted as Chudzinski not holding players accountable for their failings.
In recent weeks, a disagreement arose about a future role for receivers coach Scott Turner, the son of coordinator Norv Turner. Chudzinski, a source said, wanted to switch Turner to running backs coach. Norv Turner objected and the brushfire became another strike against Chudzinski.
Cleveland and Oakland seem to be the two biggest disfunctional franchises atm.
Quote from: katmai on December 30, 2013, 03:55:36 PM
Cleveland and Oakland seem to be the two biggest disfunctional franchises atm.
:( I think Oakland is actually on the mend. Once they get the albatross of Al and Hue's contracts off their necks next season, they'll be able to sign some real players and start a proper rebuild at long last.
I do think Cleveland is quite screwed. Lombardi traded down during the last draft to stockpile picks for the upcoming draft, he traded away Trent Richardson for a pick, he made it known no one was safe on the roster from being traded, he refused to offload Weeden and pushed for him to start, and he got Chud fired after one season. I haven't been pissed at a firing since Holmgren gutted Mangini's plans and fired him. Hell, they're still digging out of the awfulness of the Holmgren era and now they have to deal with the Lombardi bullshit. It's brutal. If you want to look at a difference in coaches, look at the reactions to the firing of Chud versus the firing of Shurmer. No one on the roster got up in arms over Shurmer getting canned, as he truly had lost the locker room and was simply terrible at game management and on field production. There are a lot of players speaking out about Chud's firing. The guy got a raw deal between injuries and Lombardi's efforts.
I'd also say the Redskins are more dysfunctional than Oakland. Tampa Bay as well. They just offloaded a HC and a GM. That's pretty brutal.
Oh yeah Redskins too, they stink.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000305046/article/rapaport-bill-obrien-poised-to-leave-penn-state
QuotePenn State coach Bill O'Brien has informed members of his staff to be prepared for a move to the Houston Texans, and the school's director of athletics, Dave Joyner, is preparing to counter the potential loss with a push for Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano, according to NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport.
Hm.
Truly a tale of woe. :cry:
http://www.nbcsports.com/better-nothing-you-havent-been-factory-sadness
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcsports.com%2Ffiles%2Fnbcsports%2Fstyles%2Fhero-image-full%2Fpublic%2F131230-browns-fans-1000.jpg&hash=7e729765e9cbe197bd275cf39a63b531bbc52982)
So I caught a demo of what will probably be the next step in coaches/players reviewing pre- and post-snap pictures during NFL games (first one to mention us using Polaroids gets a kick in the nuts). I think some of you have mentioned that they should just use iPads. Well, it's looking like it will be Microsoft Surface tablets. There will still be a guy doing the screen captures from live video feeds just like there is now, but the images will be sent wirelessly to the coaches' tablets instead the current system where pictures are printed and organized into binders by highly-trained and talented game day staff.
The NFL and Microsoft are already in bed together (they use MS Surface tablets behind each bench for injury review)
so Surface is what will be used instead of iPad.
I think it will require a league rule change to make it happen, but the DVSport guys were pretty confident that will take place. Probably pushing it to see this next year, but pretty likely for 2015. I'll either be forced into retirement again and have to watch the games from the club level, or I'll find some other BS game-day job to do. One thing's for sure, though-- those tablets are going to take a beating on the sideline. They had better be in military grade cases.
Quote from: derspiess on December 30, 2013, 11:16:52 PM
I think it will require a league rule change to make it happen, but the DVSport guys were pretty confident that will take place. Probably pushing it to see this next year, but pretty likely for 2015. I'll either be forced into retirement again and have to watch the games from the club level, or I'll find some other BS game-day job to do. One thing's for sure, though-- those tablets are going to take a beating on the sideline. They had better be in military grade cases.
Especially when Andy Reid accidentally sits on his. :P
I've decided I would be willing to not coach the Browns for just 10% of what Cleveland is willing to pay Chud to not coach the Browns. Given how bad I would be as a head coach, I think this is a real bargain for them.
My wife said she would be willing to not be a cheerleader for them for a very reasonable salary as well, so they could get quite a bargain between the pair of us.
How will you set yourselves apart from all the other great non-coaching candidates they have?
Quote from: Will BurgeMult league sources tell me Josh McDaniels has started calling coaches about staff in CLE. Said jobs his IF he wants but hasn't accepted yet.
But Tebow JUST got the SECN gig!
Quote from: katmai on December 30, 2013, 03:55:36 PM
Cleveland and Oakland seem to be the two biggest disfunctional franchises atm.
Wahoo!
QuoteOh yeah Redskins too, they stink.
Ah fuck
Josh McDaniels? LOL. Factory of Sadness continues on.
No shit. I can't believe how short the memories of some of these idiots is. :lmfao:
I am looking for a video of gif of a play early this year.
I am almost positive the Steelers were playing defense, and the other team, Jets maybe, ran a trick play on a field goal or PAT and the holder tried to run the ball and got blown up and flipped upside down. Anyone remember what I am talking about?
Quote from: Neil on December 31, 2013, 11:49:38 AM
Josh McDaniels? LOL. Factory of Sadness continues on.
He's a good OC. Maybe he's matured a bit in his second stint with the Pats.
He is not a good OC. He is a tool.
Texans just hired Bill O'Brien.
Nice. Wonder if he'll take Bridgewater at #1.
Quote from: Neil on December 31, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
He is not a good OC. He is a tool.
Why do you say that? :huh:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2014, 12:04:56 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 31, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
He is not a good OC. He is a tool.
Why do you say that? :huh:
Because his retardation fucked up the Broncos, and he hasn't done anything impressive as an offensive coordinator.
Which is worse: Trying to hire Josh McDaniels or having Josh McDaniels turn the offer down? They're both pretty fucked up.
Quote from: Neil on January 01, 2014, 12:46:25 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2014, 12:04:56 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 31, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
He is not a good OC. He is a tool.
Why do you say that? :huh:
Because his retardation fucked up the Broncos, and he hasn't done anything impressive as an offensive coordinator.
Pats were 3rd in scoring with a wreck of a roster.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2014, 04:20:37 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 01, 2014, 12:46:25 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2014, 12:04:56 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 31, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
He is not a good OC. He is a tool.
Why do you say that? :huh:
Because his retardation fucked up the Broncos, and he hasn't done anything impressive as an offensive coordinator.
Pats were 3rd in scoring with a wreck of a roster.
Thing is, no matter what you think of their HC, his assistants haven't compiled a very impressive record when they've gotta chances to be the top man.'
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2014, 04:20:37 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 01, 2014, 12:46:25 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2014, 12:04:56 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 31, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
He is not a good OC. He is a tool.
Why do you say that? :huh:
Because his retardation fucked up the Broncos, and he hasn't done anything impressive as an offensive coordinator.
Pats were 3rd in scoring with a wreck of a roster.
Exactly. And we all know that any and all credit for any Patriot achievements belongs to Belichick, because his assistants are shit.
The Bucs hired Lovie Smith! Good, he deserves it.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-lovie-smith-buccaneers-coach-20140101,0,1404938.story
At least there won't be all this handwringing over how racist the NFL is.
Quote from: Neil on January 02, 2014, 09:23:26 AM
At least there won't be all this handwringing over how racist the NFL is.
It will start up again when he is fired in 3 years and no other blacks have been hired in the meantime.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 02, 2014, 01:24:13 AM
The Bucs hired Lovie Smith! Good, he deserves it.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-lovie-smith-buccaneers-coach-20140101,0,1404938.story
Why?
Quote from: Alcibiades on January 02, 2014, 12:04:37 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 02, 2014, 01:24:13 AM
The Bucs hired Lovie Smith! Good, he deserves it.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-lovie-smith-buccaneers-coach-20140101,0,1404938.story
Why?
No kidding, I can't think of many people I dislike enough that I would say they deserve the Tampa coaching job.
The Bears just pinned their hopes on Jay Culter for the next 7 years. Oops.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bears-sign-qb-jay-cutler-182206459--nfl.html
QuoteLAKE FOREST, Ill. (AP) -- The Chicago Bears signed Jay Cutler to a seven-year contract Thursday, ending speculation that they might make a change at quarterback after five seasons.
''It's not always been easy,'' Cutler said. ''There's been some ups and downs. There's been some bad years there's been some good years. I think it makes me appreciate the moment I'm in even more, with the offensive weapons we have, with the type of leadership we have from the front office, with the type of coaching staff we have with the play calling and our (offensive) install. It makes me happy I'm here.''
The Bears also said they had signed cornerback Tim Jennings and guard Matt Slauson to four-year deals. Like Cutler, both players were scheduled to become free agents.
General manager Phil Emery said the team and Cutler's agent, Bus Cook, completed contract discussions three days after the season ended Sunday with a 33-28 loss to the Green Bay Packers in a game that decided the NFC North title. Terms were not disclosed, but the deal for the 30-year-old Cutler is reportedly worth nearly $18 million per year over the first three years and includes at least $50 million guaranteed.
''I think whenever you have two groups who want to work in the same direction and want the same thing to happen it can happen relatively pretty easily,'' Emery said.
Cutler produced his career-best passer rating of 89.2 in 2013, although he played in just 11 games due to ankle and groin injuries. He completed 224 of 355 passes for 2,621 yards and 19 touchdowns with 12 interceptions.
Emery said he was sold on Cutler's return after seeing him in Trestman's offense early in the season.
''After the first three games I definitely knew it was going in the right direction in terms of him putting the team in position to win games at the end of the game,'' Emery said. ''That says a lot about the player. I think that Jay's third-down passing and fourth-quarter quarterback rating are very high and have been high for a while. He was in the top 10 in both areas this year. I think it speaks of a guy that can be a guy, a player, that is a reason you win.''
Cutler has had a rocky career in Chicago. He feuded with former offensive coordinators like Ron Turner, Mike Martz and Mike Tice, but has climbed up the career records list for the franchise and guided the Bears to the NFC championship game in 2010.
Under Trestman, the eight-year pro seemed to gain a new lease on life with the team and fit into the offense well. It helped that he had Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery at wide receiver and running back Matt Forte had a strong year.
''The mindset is right and the talent in the locker room is right so I'm happy to be joining the rest of the guys, the rest of the coaches, the rest of the organization in pursuit of a championship,'' Cutler said.
Although Cutler would have become a free agent, the Bears did have the ability to retain him as a franchise player. Emery, however, had said he did not want to take that step.
:face:
:lol:
lol the bears are competing for worst franchise.
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2013, 12:12:42 PM
Schwartz was the worst coach.
He was the coach Detroit needed at the time. He took the Lions from being a terrible team to being a bad team.
Agreed. He doesn't have what it takes to go fRom there to the next level. That was pretty clear a year or two ago.
Chris Klewe is whining at his gay activism got him fired from the Vikings. Strange, I thought it was kicking to Devin Hester that did that.
Three teams have not yet sold out their playoff games including Green Bay!
Blackouts are an abomination!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/01/02/nfl-blackouts-packers-bengals-colts-face-deadlines/
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 02, 2014, 06:38:36 PM
Chris Klewe is whining at his gay activism got him fired from the Vikings. Strange, I thought it was kicking to Devin Hester that did that.
He's been at that for a while. Silliness.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 03, 2014, 12:09:56 AM
Three teams have not yet sold out their playoff games including Green Bay!
I dunno if you have looked at the weather for that Green Bay game, but it's going to be like -10 degrees with a wind chill to -50. Fuck that noise.
Quote from: ulmont on January 03, 2014, 11:32:56 PM
I dunno if you have looked at the weather for that Green Bay game, but it's going to be like -10 degrees with a wind chill to -50. Fuck that noise.
Keep in mind, this is
Green Bay you're talking about.