I think this should be done everywhere :contract:
QuoteFrench cafe offers discounts to polite customers
Sign outside Côte d'Azur establishment lists price of coffee as €7 (£4.20) but 'Bonjour, un café, s'il vous plaît' costs only €1.40
Kim Willsher in Paris
theguardian.com, Wednesday 11 December 2013 13.28 GMT
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FAbout%2FGeneral%2F2013%2F12%2F11%2F1386761670291%2FThe-menu-outside-the-Peti-009.jpg&hash=66a6f2bde2f05381b998bf0e5621f6333cb3abd3)
The menu outside the Petite Syrah in Nice. Photograph: NiceMatin Resistance via Twitter
A cafe on the French Riviera has gained international notoriety after reminding customers to mind their manners.
What started as a local joke generated an internet buzz this week after a diner tweeted the sign outside the Petite Syrah in Nice on the Côte d'Azur.
In an attempt to turn the tables on customers who complain that serving staff are rude, the manager warned he would hit impolite customers where it hurts, in the pocket.
A sign outside the establishment warns:
"Un café - €7
Un café s'il vous plaît - €4.25
Bonjour, un café, s'il vous plaît - €1.40."
The appeal for some old-fashioned savoir-vivre clearly touched a nerve around the world. Within hours, the story went viral on Twitter.
Former centre-right government minister Christine Boutin, responded, also by Twitter, that it was an excellent idea, and the story in the local Nice-Matin newspaper received tens of thousands of "likes".
Manager Fabrice Pepino told the paper he had even had television cameras turn up to film the sign.
"We live in a strange old world. For three years we have put all our passion into what we do, which is trying to offer quality food, and good wines ... and it's this that creates the buzz. A few words on a blackboard," he said.
He added: "It wasn't even an original idea. I saw it on the internet and liked it ... but I was planning to rub it out."
Pepino said he had not yet had to enforce the politeness policy, and admitted the sign was more of a gentle reminder than a serious threat.
"It started as a joke because at lunchtime people would come in very stressed and were sometimes rude to us when they ordered a coffee," Pepino told the English language website the Local.
"It's our way of saying: 'Keep calm and carry on.'"
He added: "Most of my customers are regulars and they just see the funny side and exaggerate their politeness.
"But people are more relaxed now, and they're smiling more. That's the most important thing."
I like it, but I often find myself being more polite than the person serving me, and it gets annoying after a while.
Excellent. I notice more and more people just stating the item they want, be it at café or in a bakery. We might not have a word for 'please', but a simple 'hi', a smile or a thank you would suffice.
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2013, 09:59:24 AM
Excellent. I notice more and more people just stating the item they want, be it at café or in a bakery. We might not have a word for 'please', but a simple 'hi', a smile or a thank you would suffice.
You don't have an equivalent of "bitte"? :huh:
Silly.
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
It's funny cuz you're from Quebec. :cool:
"Coffee, please"............7000 €
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
It's funny cuz you're from Quebec. :cool:
It is? French people are assholes.
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 11, 2013, 11:16:11 AM
It is? French people are assholes.
That's why I never go to Aspen :angry:
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
It's funny cuz you're from Quebec. :cool:
Different culture :) Americans and British are different, despiste the same language. Same for Australians and Canadians.
Quote from: derspiess on December 11, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2013, 09:59:24 AM
Excellent. I notice more and more people just stating the item they want, be it at café or in a bakery. We might not have a word for 'please', but a simple 'hi', a smile or a thank you would suffice.
You don't have an equivalent of "bitte"? :huh:
Vikings just take what they want. :ph34r:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 11, 2013, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 11, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2013, 09:59:24 AM
Excellent. I notice more and more people just stating the item they want, be it at café or in a bakery. We might not have a word for 'please', but a simple 'hi', a smile or a thank you would suffice.
You don't have an equivalent of "bitte"? :huh:
Vikings just take what they want. :ph34r:
actually.. both norway and iceland have a distinct lack of the use of "please" and "excuse me" equivalents.
Don't think its big in Arab speaking nations either.
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 01:39:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
It's funny cuz you're from Quebec. :cool:
Different culture :) Americans and British are different, despiste the same language. Same for Australians and Canadians.
You know that Australians aren't real, right? They're fantasy creatures, like Orcs.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2013, 05:10:54 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 01:39:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
It's funny cuz you're from Quebec. :cool:
Different culture :) Americans and British are different, despiste the same language. Same for Australians and Canadians.
You know that Australians aren't real, right? They're fantasy creatures, like Orcs.
And elves, hobbits and dwarves.
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 11, 2013, 05:17:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2013, 05:10:54 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 01:39:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
It's funny cuz you're from Quebec. :cool:
Different culture :) Americans and British are different, despiste the same language. Same for Australians and Canadians.
You know that Australians aren't real, right? They're fantasy creatures, like Orcs.
And elves, hobbits and dwarves.
Those are Kiwis, not Aussies.
Quote from: Viking on December 11, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 11, 2013, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 11, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2013, 09:59:24 AM
Excellent. I notice more and more people just stating the item they want, be it at café or in a bakery. We might not have a word for 'please', but a simple 'hi', a smile or a thank you would suffice.
You don't have an equivalent of "bitte"? :huh:
Vikings just take what they want. :ph34r:
actually.. both norway and iceland have a distinct lack of the use of "please" and "excuse me" equivalents.
What a fucking surprise. <_<
edit:Guess I'm not gonna get the 10% discount at the coffee shop. :P
Quote from: Viking on December 11, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
actually.. both norway and iceland have a distinct lack of the use of "please" and "excuse me" equivalents.
My first thought was that's bizarre, but upon reflection, a please equivalent is kind of a linguistic rarity, isn't it?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 05:41:01 PM
Quote from: Viking on December 11, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
actually.. both norway and iceland have a distinct lack of the use of "please" and "excuse me" equivalents.
My first thought was that's bizarre, but upon reflection, a please equivalent is kind of a linguistic rarity, isn't it?
Bitte, S.V.P., Пожалуйста, Por favor. All other languages I know has it... but that is a rather eurocentric list.
So when you are begging a beautiful woman to have sex with you what do you say? Or do you just promise perks in the future?
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2013, 05:46:43 PM
Bitte, S.V.P., Пожалуйста, Por favor. All other languages I know has it... but that is a rather eurocentric list.
I know Korean and Japanese don't. I'm pretty sure Chinese doesn't.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2013, 05:46:43 PM
Bitte, S.V.P., Пожалуйста, Por favor. All other languages I know has it... but that is a rather eurocentric list.
I know Korean and Japanese don't. I'm pretty sure Chinese doesn't.
Hindi does.
Parabens. :eggplant: :)
Or maybe not... :hmm:
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2013, 05:55:34 PM
Hindi does.
What is the etymology of the Hindi equivalent?
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
So when you are begging a beautiful woman to have sex with you what do you say? Or do you just promise perks in the future?
Begging doesn't seem to work in those circumstances, anyway.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 06:03:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2013, 05:55:34 PM
Hindi does.
What is the etymology of the Hindi equivalent?
I just looked and appears to stem from Sanskrit. Potentially originally rooted in word for pity/compassion.
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
So when you are begging a beautiful woman to have sex with you what do you say? Or do you just promise perks in the future?
We have adopted your language's exceptional begging qualities, so we would say: "Please! Bare med spidsen."
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2013, 06:10:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
So when you are begging a beautiful woman to have sex with you what do you say? Or do you just promise perks in the future?
Begging doesn't seem to work in those circumstances, anyway.
I like to go with - "Please, sir, can I have some more?"
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on December 11, 2013, 05:56:37 PM
Parabens. :eggplant: :)
Or maybe not... :hmm:
fas favor ( not spelled right)
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2013, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 06:03:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2013, 05:55:34 PM
Hindi does.
What is the etymology of the Hindi equivalent?
I just looked and appears to stem from Sanskrit. Potentially originally rooted in word for pity/compassion.
So it's an Indo-european thing?
Quote from: Iormlund on December 12, 2013, 12:52:35 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2013, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 06:03:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2013, 05:55:34 PM
Hindi does.
What is the etymology of the Hindi equivalent?
I just looked and appears to stem from Sanskrit. Potentially originally rooted in word for pity/compassion.
So it's an Indo-european thing?
Quick search turned up Yoruba having a word as well...though I've no idea how I'd look up its provenance. :D
It always disturbs me to hear people just say the item they want and miss off please, even though it apparently isn't the done thing in Japan to say please to shop workers.
I also always feel iffy when they shout welcome as I enter and there is nothing I can reply.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2013, 05:46:43 PM
Bitte, S.V.P., Пожалуйста, Por favor. All other languages I know has it... but that is a rather eurocentric list.
I know Korean and Japanese don't. I'm pretty sure Chinese doesn't.
Mandarin Chinese does - it is qing 请. However, it is more common when ordering food or whatever not to use it. And their equivalent of "thank you" (xiexie 谢谢） is definitely used way less frequently than in English.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2013, 01:17:52 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on December 12, 2013, 12:52:35 AM
So it's an Indo-european thing?
Except the Norse.
The Swedes might have it, at least I remember them using 'snälla' quite a lot.
The only Swedish I know, taught by Johan, is "Ska vi knülla?"
My kids were taught to say, "Please, may I have..." when ordering, even at McDonald's. It's amazing the looks they get from other customers (and their friends) when they continue doing so as adults, but most of the clerks seem pleased and usually give them better service.
It doesn't hurt to use curtesy, and it could make someone else's day better, so why not do so whenever you can?
I do find it interesting that there are languages that don't have equivalent words for "please" and "thank you". Just not something that I've ever considered, but it makes sense. Curtesy has different meanings in different cultures.
Quote from: Camerus on December 12, 2013, 02:02:03 AM
Mandarin Chinese does - it is qing 请. However, it is more common when ordering food or whatever not to use it. And their equivalent of "thank you" (xiexie 谢谢） is definitely used way less frequently than in English.
A friend of mine uses "xiexie" whenever we go to a Chinese restaurant, but the servers always seem annoyed when he does. I don't know if he's saying it wrong or in the wrong context, but they never seem happy or impressed, rather just irritated by him.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 05:54:04 PM
I know Korean and Japanese don't. I'm pretty sure Chinese doesn't.
What about "domo arigato" (Mister Roboto)?
I actually always wondered whether
arigato derives from the Portuguese
obrigado :hmm:
"I'm gonna get the..."/"I'm gonna do the..." in restaurants seems to be a particularly American thing. I think I recall Sheilbh reacting :bleeding: to it. :D It's not really rude in context, more in the vein of our general over-colloquial waiter/patron relationship (see: first names of waitstaff), but still a little grating.
I think my usual is can I get.
Quote from: merithyn on December 12, 2013, 08:59:14 AM
My kids were taught to say, "Please, may I have..." when ordering, even at McDonald's. It's amazing the looks they get from other customers (and their friends) when they continue doing so as adults, but most of the clerks seem pleased and usually give them better service.
It doesn't hurt to use curtesy, and it could make someone else's day better, so why not do so whenever you can?
I do find it interesting that there are languages that don't have equivalent words for "please" and "thank you". Just not something that I've ever considered, but it makes sense. Curtesy has different meanings in different cultures.
We get around it. A translation of a courteous order would be: "I would like to/May I ask for a coffee, thanks".
Quote from: garbon on December 12, 2013, 09:09:55 AM
I think my usual is can I get.
"You certainly can". [silence] :D
...
Yeah, I say "Can I get" too. ;)
I say, "I would like..." or "Please may I have..." or "I'll have the X please".
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 11, 2013, 05:34:13 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 11, 2013, 05:17:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2013, 05:10:54 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 01:39:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
French cafe offering discounts to polite people? They sure ain't losing much...
It's funny cuz you're from Quebec. :cool:
Different culture :) Americans and British are different, despiste the same language. Same for Australians and Canadians.
You know that Australians aren't real, right? They're fantasy creatures, like Orcs.
And elves, hobbits and dwarves.
Those are Kiwis, not Aussies.
Well shit, you are correct. And I know this, I've been there and worked with them drunk Kiwis. :Embarrass: I'm slacking. :(
Quote from: Malthus on December 12, 2013, 09:13:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 12, 2013, 09:09:55 AM
I think my usual is can I get.
"You certainly can". [silence] :D
...
Yeah, I say "Can I get" too. ;)
Unless it is a place like the Carnegie Deli, generally waitstaff aren't trained to call the customer out. :P
Quote from: garbon on December 12, 2013, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 12, 2013, 09:13:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 12, 2013, 09:09:55 AM
I think my usual is can I get.
"You certainly can". [silence] :D
...
Yeah, I say "Can I get" too. ;)
Unless it is a place like the Carnegie Deli, generally waitstaff aren't trained to call the customer out. :P
I dunno, how better to get a 20% tip than to humiliate your customers?
Oh, right. ;) I guess that's why I'm not in that industry.
Quote from: Brazen on December 12, 2013, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2013, 05:54:04 PM
I know Korean and Japanese don't. I'm pretty sure Chinese doesn't.
What about "domo arigato" (Mister Roboto)?
I actually always wondered whether arigato derives from the Portuguese obrigado :hmm:
Yeah. There are quite a few Portugeseisms in Japanese. The word for bread-pan-is another.
I'm surprised that there are languages without more or less direct equivalents of please. Turkish, Russian and German do. I actually associate Chinese with particularly Baroque politeness protocols, it would seem if anything that they don't have an exact equivalent because it's just not that simple. Turkish, Russian and German all have the T-V distinction, with older Turkish having three levels of politeness (thou, you and literally "yous").
Quote from: Brazen on December 12, 2013, 09:05:47 AM
What about "domo arigato" (Mister Roboto)?
That's thank you.
Isn't it doozo?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2013, 03:09:30 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on December 12, 2013, 03:07:05 PM
Isn't it doozo?
Ah, that's the Japanese please.
Isn't that what they use as "excuse me"? Or as in "please, sit down".
I'm not sure how exact it is. Suwatte kudasai means "please sit down" with "suwatte" being the verb, so I'd imagine it depends on context.
I'd have to imagine Korean has a pretty complex system of politeness. It's pretty typical of every East Asian language I thought. Vietnamese is nuts.
Quote from: Liep on December 12, 2013, 03:12:48 PM
Isn't that what they use as "excuse me"? Or as in "please, sit down".
Excuse me is
sumimasen. I think
doozo might be mostly (only?) used in the context of offering food. Please eat, please come in to my restaurant.
For instance, there's no real decent English, Russian or German equivalent that springs to mind of Turkish Eline saghlik, "health to your hand", which is the polite response to afiyet olsun (bon appetit). These system are different, but I doubt that many languages sported by complex hierarchical civilizations lack vague equivalents to "please".
I think you're wrong Squeelus. As you already mentioned East Asian languages express a hierarchy of status and respect, but that's not the same as please.
I suspect the existence of please has to do with feudal or pre feudal traditions of petitioning one's superiors. "If it please your lord, I can't pay my taxes this year." Therefore cultures which didn't recognize rigid hierarchy (Vikings) or those that did but didn't recognize the right to petition, won't have a please equivalent.
Your argument is that Japan, where the Samurai class could behead anyone and say "Forgive me for beheading you" was insufficiently feudal?
Quote from: Queequeg on December 12, 2013, 04:38:35 PM
Your argument is that Japan, where the Samurai class could behead anyone and say "Forgive me for beheading you" was insufficiently feudal?
Totally wrong.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2013, 03:21:05 PM
Quote from: Liep on December 12, 2013, 03:12:48 PM
Isn't that what they use as "excuse me"? Or as in "please, sit down".
Excuse me is sumimasen. I think doozo might be mostly (only?) used in the context of offering food. Please eat, please come in to my restaurant.
Japanese has, IIRC, three levels of grammar and vocabulary, depending on whether you are speaking to an inferior (or a child/woman), an equal, or a superior.
Quote from: Queequeg on December 12, 2013, 04:38:35 PM
Your argument is that Japan, where the Samurai class could behead anyone and say "Forgive me for beheading you" was insufficiently feudal?
By the time samurai could indeed do that, Japan was well on the way out of being a feudal state and well into being a centralized, early modern bureaucratic state with some feudal remnants. Besides, samurai tended not behave like knee-jerk
asshole-sama in the Azuchi-Momoyama period, where Japan was at its most feudal, at least until Hideyoshi's sword hunts, partly because the definition of a samurai wasn't totally clear and well-defined, quite a few 'samurai' were still peasants, and a lot of peasants were armed to defend there villages and localities would not have liked this sort of politeness enforcement method.
I still don't buy it. People in every country had to petition their superiors. Even subjects of Gustav Vasa had to ask pretty please build a bridge in Uppsala. I think this is likely random linguistic noise where the universality of kissing ass in hierarchical societies and tenancy of upper classes to use prestige languages, leads to borrowing of exact phrases (please) and concepts (pozhailusta and lütfen).
Quote from: Queequeg on December 12, 2013, 06:32:03 PM
I still don't buy it. People in every country had to petition their superiors. Even subjects of Gustav Vasa had to ask pretty please build a bridge in Uppsala. I think this is likely random linguistic noise where the universality of kissing ass in hierarchical societies and tenancy of upper classes to use prestige languages, leads to borrowing of exact phrases (please) and concepts (pozhailusta and lütfen).
Completely wrong.
In China and Japan rulers were considered divine and secluded from society. Whereas in Imperial Rome the right of a citizen to petition the emperor for redress of wrong was explicitly guaranteed in law.
I think its fairly accurate to say there is no absolute translation of please in Japanese. Instead there are different pleases for different situations.
i.e. dozo for 'please, you can have this seat' and the like, 'kudasai' for 'can i have a beer please', etc...
Its hard to have one word for please when your entire language is built around saying please.