Poll
Question:
Soldiers or Lawyers?
Option 1: I am or was a soldier
votes: 18
Option 2: I am or was a lawyer
votes: 13
Option 3: I am both soldier and lawyer
votes: 3
Option 4: I am Jaron
votes: 23
We have many soldiers and many lawyers on Languish. But the question remains: which is larger - The Languish Soldiers Platoon, or the Languish Advocates Cabal?
For "soldiers" include airmen, marines and sailors, those in the reserves and those who have been soldiers, etc. but who have since retired or moved on to other jobs; for "lawyers" count law students, those who got law degrees but who have not passed the bar (hi, Ide!), and those who got law degrees but have moved on to other occupations.
I did my military service, and I got trained at college for public administration, which is about 75% law. It's been 17 and 14 years respectively since those eras of my life, though. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsiliconangle.com%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F07%2Ftom-cruise-A-Few-Good-Men-01.jpg&hash=387470de3d6399edde3851be30e1961a10dc8323)
I want the truth!
We're all subsets of 'prevaricators'. :P
I never served in the armed forces, but I am an actuary.
I'll let it slide for this thread/poll. But you really should have used the term military service member instead of soldier. :contract:
I was a soldier once. It seems a thousand centuries ago.
Quote from: The Brain on October 18, 2013, 03:06:02 PM
I was a soldier once. It seems a thousand centuries ago.
Hi, grumbler. :)
I am both soldier and lawyer = 2?! Who? :unsure:
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 18, 2013, 02:58:27 PM
I'll let it slide for this thread/poll. But you really should have used the term military service member instead of soldier. :contract:
But he's including naval service members as well. Military means army + air force. Armed Forces is all four services.
LOL can I be: Jaron? :jaron:
Tru dat yo.
What if you're neither? Can we assemble a mercenary force and sell ourselves to the highest bidder?
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 18, 2013, 03:09:54 PM
I am both soldier and lawyer = 2?! Who? :unsure:
Since none of the options fit me, I gave my vote to Daniel Kaffee. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 18, 2013, 03:40:56 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 18, 2013, 03:09:54 PM
I am both soldier and lawyer = 2?! Who? :unsure:
Since none of the options fit me, I gave my vote to Daniel Kaffee. :P
:mad: Should have voted the Jaron option. :contract:
I'm not a Mormon. :mad:
Quote from: celedhring on October 18, 2013, 03:34:19 PM
What if you're neither? Can we assemble a mercenary force and sell ourselves to the highest bidder?
That would be both
I was in the cavalry. :)
I served on both sides during the War on Drugs.
I was a warrior once. Shooting at the walls of heartache. Heartache won.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 19, 2013, 11:10:49 PM
I was a warrior once. Shooting at the walls of heartache. Heartache won.
Sounds like a Def Leppard song.
I keep having US soldiers add me on Facebook. I keep thinking they're Languishites until they send pervy messages at 3am. Oh wait...
:lol:
Quote from: Brazen on October 20, 2013, 10:11:48 AM
I keep having US soldiers add me on Facebook. I keep thinking they're Languishites until they send pervy messages at 3am. Oh wait...
You gotta stop accepting messages from Siege's socks. :P
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 20, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
Quote from: Brazen on October 20, 2013, 10:11:48 AM
I keep having US soldiers add me on Facebook. I keep thinking they're Languishites until they send pervy messages at 3am. Oh wait...
You gotta stop accepting messages from Siege's socks. :P
I never knew Brazen was only 14 years old ... :P
I voted soldier, US navy.
So far, the soldiers are more numerous ... :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
So far, the soldiers are more numerous ... :hmm:
But for most it's a temporary condition, not a permanent malady like lawyering. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 20, 2013, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
So far, the soldiers are more numerous ... :hmm:
But for most it's a temporary condition, not a permanent malady like lawyering. :P
Unless they are Marines.
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 20, 2013, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 20, 2013, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
So far, the soldiers are more numerous ... :hmm:
But for most it's a temporary condition, not a permanent malady like lawyering. :P
Unless they are Marines.
Or, conversely, Ide. ;)
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 20, 2013, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 20, 2013, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
So far, the soldiers are more numerous ... :hmm:
But for most it's a temporary condition, not a permanent malady like lawyering. :P
Unless they are Marines.
I dare you to call a Marine a "soldier".
Once a Marine, always a Marine. :secret: The rest of us just retire. ;)
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 20, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 20, 2013, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 20, 2013, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
So far, the soldiers are more numerous ... :hmm:
But for most it's a temporary condition, not a permanent malady like lawyering. :P
Unless they are Marines.
I dare you to call a Marine a "soldier".
yes, I find it offensive.
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 02:54:15 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 20, 2013, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 20, 2013, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
So far, the soldiers are more numerous ... :hmm:
But for most it's a temporary condition, not a permanent malady like lawyering. :P
Unless they are Marines.
Or, conversely, Ide. ;)
:lmfao:
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 20, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
I dare you to call a Marine a "soldier".
:lol:
Its stupid how they react about that.
Marines=soldiers
Quote from: Tyr on October 21, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 20, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
I dare you to call a Marine a "soldier".
:lol:
Its stupid how they react about that.
Marines=soldiers
Please do that in their presence. In a bar. PLEASE.
Then post about the beating you took. Thanks. :)
Quote from: Tyr on October 21, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 20, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
I dare you to call a Marine a "soldier".
:lol:
Its stupid how they react about that.
Marines=soldiers
:lol:
Its stupid how you react about that.
Tyr=ignorant
Marines call themselves and each other jarheads, but man do they get pissed off if a non-Marine does it. I even had some fairly close friends get pissy when I called them that. I guess that's their word.
Yeah, we have a special relationship with Marines. We call each other names but if anyone else get involved we'll defend each other. We work together quite a bit, and depend on each other.
For example, we may remind jarheads that Marine stands for My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment. ;)
Quote from: Tyr on October 21, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
:lol:
Its stupid how they react about that.
Marines=soldiers
:lmfao:
Its incredibly amusing to watch your repeated inability to comprehend the simple, by-definition distinction between Marines and soldiers. It isn't ignorant ignorance on your part, it is willful ignorance, and you seem quite proud of showing your ass on the topic at every opportunity.
Well-done.
Oh, and in English we say "react
to that" not "react
about that."
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 21, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
:lol:
Its stupid how they react about that.
Marines=soldiers
:lmfao:
Its incredibly amusing to watch your repeated inability to comprehend the simple, by-definition distinction between Marines and soldiers. It isn't ignorant ignorance on your part, it is willful ignorance, and you seem quite proud of showing your ass on the topic at every opportunity.
Well-done.
Oh, and in English we say "react to that" not "react about that."
Quote1sol·dier noun \ˈsōl-jər\
: a person who is in the military : a member of an army
It seems like a matter of useage. I understand how the uS military uses it (and seems reflected in this definition). but calling a marine a soldier isn't 'by-definition' wrong, either.
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
Quote1sol·dier noun \ˈsōl-jər\
: a person who is in the military : a member of an army
It seems like a matter of useage. I understand how the uS military uses it (and seems reflected in this definition). but calling a marine a soldier isn't 'by-definition' wrong, either.
The US military calls their servicemen soldiers and airmen (or aviators, for the officers). The US naval forces call their people sailors and Marines. It really doesn't matter what the Canadians call their people, or what the US military calls their people, though, and the US Marines are neither Canadian nor military. By definition.
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
Quote1sol·dier noun \ˈsōl-jər\
: a person who is in the military : a member of an army
It seems like a matter of useage. I understand how the uS military uses it (and seems reflected in this definition). but calling a marine a soldier isn't 'by-definition' wrong, either.
The US military calls their servicemen soldiers and airmen (or aviators, for the officers). The US naval forces call their people sailors and Marines.
Ah that makes sense.
Arguing about definitions? Seems the lawyers have won after all. :P
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
Quote1sol·dier noun \ˈsōl-jər\
: a person who is in the military : a member of an army
It seems like a matter of useage. I understand how the uS military uses it (and seems reflected in this definition). but calling a marine a soldier isn't 'by-definition' wrong, either.
The US military calls their servicemen soldiers and airmen (or aviators, for the officers). The US naval forces call their people sailors and Marines. It really doesn't matter what the Canadians call their people, or what the US military calls their people, though, and the US Marines are neither Canadian nor military. By definition.
But so how is it wrong for a UK or Canadian citizen to call a US Marine a soldier?
By the way...
Quote1mil·i·tary adjective \ˈmi-lə-ˌter-ē\
: of or relating to soldiers or the armed forces (such as the army, navy, marines, and air force)
: of or relating to the army
: controlled or supported by armed forces
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
But so how is it wrong for a UK or Canadian citizen to call a US Marine a soldier?
By the way...
It is cool so long as your goal is to really piss off a marine.
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
But so how is it wrong for a UK or Canadian citizen to call a US Marine a soldier?
By the way...
It is cool so long as your goal is to really piss off a marine.
Oh that's a pretty good bit of information to know - and I never would have known it but for Languish. :hug:
(that is - how to avoid pissing off a marine, not how to deliberately provoke a marine)
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
But so how is it wrong for a UK or Canadian citizen to call a US Marine a soldier?
:huh:
Why would a Canadian citizen apply definitions peculiar to the Canadian context? I suppose the Marine would forgive the Canadian for not knowing any better. I didnt before Grumbler explained it.
The US Marines: travel the world, meet new people ... and beat the crap outta them for mistakenly calling you a "soldier". ;)
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
But so how is it wrong for a UK or Canadian citizen to call a US Marine a soldier?
:huh:
Why would a Canadian citizen apply definitions peculiar to the Canadian context? I suppose the Marine would forgive the Canadian for not knowing any better. I didnt before Grumbler explained it.
How is "language" peculiar to the Canadian context?
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
But so how is it wrong for a UK or Canadian citizen to call a US Marine a soldier?
:huh:
Why would a Canadian citizen apply definitions peculiar to the Canadian context? I suppose the Marine would forgive the Canadian for not knowing any better. I didnt before Grumbler explained it.
How is "language" peculiar to the Canadian context?
It isnt language it is how the language is used in the particular circumstance - you know how people define things.
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2013, 01:18:54 PM
Arguing about definitions? Seems the lawyers have won after all. :P
:cry:
At least there are more military than law talkers. :P
Probably a function of so many Europeans coming to age during conscription.
Would the majority of US marines be ok with being described as infantry (at those that perform that function) ?
Or perhaps naval infantry?
Quote from: mongers on October 21, 2013, 02:16:42 PM
Would the majority of US marines be ok with being described as infantry (at those that perform that function) ?
Or perhaps naval infantry?
"Who you callin an infant? :mad: "
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 21, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Please do that in their presence. In a bar. PLEASE.
Then post about the beating you took. Thanks. :)
If they beat him for something he said they would prove him right about the stupid part at least.
I suspect calling a marine a "soldier" is one of those military solecisms that are drilled into people in the armed services, but are made all the time by people outside the services.
"This is mah rifle, this is mah gun; this one's for fightin' and this one's for fun!"
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2013, 02:31:43 PM
I suspect calling a marine a "soldier" is one of those military solecisms that are drilled into people in the armed services, but are made all the time by people outside the services.
"This is mah rifle, this is mah gun; this one's for fightin' and this one's for fun!"
It could just be the Marine corps is composed mostly of arrogant jackasses.
Jarasses. :contract:
Quote from: Razgovory on October 21, 2013, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2013, 02:31:43 PM
I suspect calling a marine a "soldier" is one of those military solecisms that are drilled into people in the armed services, but are made all the time by people outside the services.
"This is mah rifle, this is mah gun; this one's for fightin' and this one's for fun!"
It could just be the Marine corps is composed mostly of arrogant jackasses.
The inter-service rivalry stuff is pretty tiresome for civilians I have to say. 'Yes yes I realize now you were backup assistant mechanic 3rd class in the Merchant Marine, I never meant to imply you were a latrine digger in the Coast Guard.'
Any group of people who insist that outsiders use jargon are pretty tiresome.
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
But so how is it wrong for a UK or Canadian citizen to call a US Marine a soldier?
It is wrong because a US Marine isn't a soldier.
Quote1mil·i·tary adjective \ˈmi-lə-ˌter-ē\
: of or relating to soldiers or the armed forces (such as the army, navy, marines, and air force)
: of or relating to the army
: controlled or supported by armed forces
So you found a dictionary that doesn't understand the distinction between the United States Military Academy and the United States Naval Academy. That doesn't change any definitions, it just shows that anonymous dictionaries can be wrong, as well.
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2013, 03:17:22 PM
LOL can I be: Jaron? :jaron:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpersian-star.org%2F1389%2F1%2F23%2Fchina%2Fchinese_obese_Children_14.jpg&hash=4229e54a144ac7597d6c7347df0785d5b61459f8)
Can't you tell the difference between Chinamen and Mexiricans?
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2013, 02:31:43 PM
I suspect calling a marine a "soldier" is one of those military solecisms that are drilled into people in the armed services, but are made all the time by people outside the services.
"This is mah rifle, this is mah gun; this one's for fightin' and this one's for fun!"
Yep. Kinda like the barrister/solicitor distinction in the UK, or doctor versus surgeon.
Do surgeons get pissy about being called "doctor"? :huh:
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2013, 02:21:18 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 21, 2013, 02:16:42 PM
Would the majority of US marines be ok with being described as infantry (at those that perform that function) ?
Or perhaps naval infantry?
"Who you callin an infant? :mad: "
Majority of US Marines are pogs, they ain't infantry.4
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 21, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
Do surgeons get pissy about being called "doctor"? :huh:
British doctors get pissy when they hear a surgeon called "doctor." Apparently, back in the day, doctors came to the front door, surgeons to the servants' door. In Britain, surgeons are called "mister," not "doctor."
Quote from: Siege on October 21, 2013, 06:27:23 PM
Majority of US Marines are pogs, they ain't infantry.4
Correct. They are all riflemen first, but the USMC is an integrated all-arms outfit, not half of one like the USA and USAAF.
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
Quote1sol·dier noun \ˈsōl-jər\
: a person who is in the military : a member of an army
It seems like a matter of useage. I understand how the uS military uses it (and seems reflected in this definition). but calling a marine a soldier isn't 'by-definition' wrong, either.
The US military calls their servicemen soldiers and airmen (or aviators, for the officers). The US naval forces call their people sailors and Marines. It really doesn't matter what the Canadians call their people, or what the US military calls their people, though, and the US Marines are neither Canadian nor military. By definition.
It doesn't really matter how the US military defines anything. They can define black as white and up as down, but a US Marine is still just a kind of soldier and you're still a faggot and a cunt. :mellow:
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 06:02:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2013, 02:31:43 PM
I suspect calling a marine a "soldier" is one of those military solecisms that are drilled into people in the armed services, but are made all the time by people outside the services.
"This is mah rifle, this is mah gun; this one's for fightin' and this one's for fun!"
Yep. Kinda like the barrister/solicitor distinction in the UK, or doctor versus surgeon.
MAH
CLIP MAGAZINE
Seems to me if you're going to take exception to the soldier/Marine distinction, you also need to take exception to the soldier/sailor/airman one.
I once told a retired Marine officer in a nudey bar that I had heard the Army's nickname for Marines was bullet-stoppers. He told me I was a punk and he didn't want to talk to me any more. :(
That was a little insensitive of you, you have to admit.
Talking to the dudes in a strip joint. Weirdo.
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 08:01:17 PM
British doctors get pissy when they hear a surgeon called "doctor." Apparently, back in the day, doctors came to the front door, surgeons to the servants' door. In Britain, surgeons are called "mister," not "doctor."
Yeah. Until the 19th century surgeons were craftsmen. They trained through apprenticeship and diploma, not university and doctorate so they were not doctors they were misters. They're now doctors but referred to as 'mister'.
Having said that I don't think anyone would get pissy over it, especially if it wasn't someone who they'd expect to know and most people would still describe their surgeon as 'dr x'.
Plenty of airman exceptions around here, don't think that'll be a problem.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fglobal3.memecdn.com%2Fair-force-basic-training_o_322611.jpg&hash=da05b8472ea6054e6bd4be44becb0ab18eb2bbbf)
Amazes me how a branch can be at the vanguard of integrated joint air support, world-leading avionics technology and be a force multiplier across all facets of warfare since its inception, and yet still run a triple option offense.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 21, 2013, 09:40:28 PM
Yeah. Until the 19th century surgeons were craftsmen. They trained through apprenticeship and diploma, not university and doctorate so they were not doctors they were misters. They're now doctors but referred to as 'mister'.
Having said that I don't think anyone would get pissy over it, especially if it wasn't someone who they'd expect to know and most people would still describe their surgeon as 'dr x'.
It mattered mightily that you use the correct honorific on Harley Street in the late 1980s. I dunno about now. But my point was that these are the kinds of things only insiders would be expected to know, and yet insiders looked down on outsiders who didn't know them. Rather like if you go aboard a ship and talks to the crew about those "cute little round windows."
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 21, 2013, 09:53:29 PM
Amazes me how a branch can be at the vanguard of integrated joint air support, world-leading avionics technology and be a force multiplier across all facets of warfare since its inception, and yet still run a triple option offense.
Technically, Navy runs a flexbone offense, not purely triple option, but, effectively, you are correct that it is a triple option offense.
I see what you did there.
Go Army, beat Navy
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Prior to 20th century sailors were known by the honorific "catamite".
Is the insistance of members of the USMC that they are not "soldiers" and the offense taken if you call them "soldiers" a bit silly, or even assinine? Yeah, but less assinine than insisting that they are soldiers even after their objection to it is explained.
Quote from: dps on October 22, 2013, 08:26:15 AM
Is the insistance of members of the USMC that they are not "soldiers" and the offense taken if you call them "soldiers" a bit silly, or even assinine? Yeah, but less assinine than insisting that they are soldiers even after their objection to it is explained.
If the objection is insufficient then it's not asinine to continue calling them that.
Naw, people have a right to decide what they are called, as long as they aren't improperly appropriating a name or title that belongs to someone else.
Within reasonable limits, of course. :D
In the case of Marines and Soldiers it appears the naming convention is not mere semantics. The analogy of barristers and solicitors is a good one. For people who dont use dont use legal services they are all lawyers but for people who do use legal services the distinction is very important. You wouldnt want a solicitor arguing a case in court and you wouldnt want a barrister drafting a complex commercial agreement.
I dont know enough about the US armed forces to say specifically how a soldier and a marine differ but I am willing to bet that someone who is, knows why one would not want a soldier doing the job of a marine and the reverse.
Back when there was a draft, most of the draftees went to the Army while the Marines remain a mostly volunteer force.
Marines and soldiers are both equally inferior to the United Airmen.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 22, 2013, 10:18:45 AM
Marines and soldiers are both equally inferior to the United Airmen playing golf.
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 08:06:11 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 21, 2013, 06:27:23 PM
Majority of US Marines are pogs, they ain't infantry.4
Correct. They are all riflemen first, but the USMC is an integrated all-arms outfit, not half of one like the USA and USAAF.
You realize the "rifleman first" is just an stupid morale thing, right?
Shooting twice a year for the 6-month qualification does not makes a rifleman.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 21, 2013, 08:34:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2013, 06:02:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2013, 02:31:43 PM
I suspect calling a marine a "soldier" is one of those military solecisms that are drilled into people in the armed services, but are made all the time by people outside the services.
"This is mah rifle, this is mah gun; this one's for fightin' and this one's for fun!"
Yep. Kinda like the barrister/solicitor distinction in the UK, or doctor versus surgeon.
MAH CLIP MAGAZINE
What's this?
Only civilians say clip instead of mag.
They learnt that shit watching movies.
Nothing new here.
Quote from: Siege on October 22, 2013, 10:31:24 AM
You realize the "rifleman first" is just an stupid morale thing, right?
Shooting twice a year for the 6-month qualification does not makes a rifleman.
It's an issue of mentality, not "qualification." Even Marines who are not infantrymen understand that they can be, and have to be ready to be, drafted into the infantryman role. It is a "morale thing" (like the infantry calling all non-infantry "POG" and the non-infantry calling infantry "grunts") but not a stupid one.
It may interest you to know that "POG" is what is known as a "backronym," as it's meaning was invented to fit earlier usage (from the Marines) of "pogue," a corruption of the Celtic (I think - maybe French) word for "asshole."
Siege qualifies for both roles as an agent for a foreign service, as he had to be an illegal settlement rifleman and still have to get wet dropping carcasses in Palestinian wells at the same time.