Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally - I know it's social media and Le Pen's account so it will be well managed - but this clip of her going through a crowd taking selfies with them is what reminds me of the Corbyn 2017 momentum (and the crowd is so young ):
https://twitter.com/MLP_officiel/status/1512390088856064002?s=20&t=zTM7Mhw10_T_u_-V8v7gjA

[Duque de Bragança]

Except the "right" should be divided. There's supposed to be a firewall between democratic forces and fascist ones. When the right is so pissed to be out of power than to be ready to vote for LePen, there is no "right" anymore, just a bunch of fascists.

So the left should be divided between the so-called democratic forces and the other part (communists, leftists, indigénistes, communautaristes de tout poil etc.).
However, this is not the case so this double standard has to go.

I meant she wants a Frexit, even after seeing the consequences on Britain.

False. Even left-leaning Le Monde recognises that.
https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2022/02/14/le-programme-de-marine-le-pen-a-la-presidentielle-2022_6113605_823448.html

Europe
Rétablir un contrôle aux frontières
Marine Le Pen compte renégocier les accords de Schengen, rétablir un contrôle aux frontières tout en maintenant des procédures simplifiées pour les ressortissants des Etats de l'Union européenne.
Source : Programme (04/02/22)
Les propositions des autres candidats sur le sujet
Affirmer la supériorité des lois françaises sur les lois européennes
La candidate du RN n'envisage plus de quitter l'Union européenne, mais elle compte « remettre à sa place » cette « structure supranationale illégitime », en empêchant l'application de tout texte européen qui serait contraire à la Constitution française.
Source : France Inter (19/01/22)
Les propositions des autres candidats sur le sujet
Ne pas sortir de l'euro
La candidate du RN a abandonné l'objectif de sortir de l'euro, qui faisait partie de son programme en 2017.
Source : Le Monde (01/01/22)

These propositions may be debated of course but it is far from the caricature you make of them.
Marine lost big in 2017 when she advocated the exit of the Euro. Not even Zemmour argues for either.

She will copy-paste Orban's stance on Russia if elected.

Or she could be a copycat of the Polish reactionary right. If you want a guaranteed lackey of Putin, try your Mélenchon.

She is just as ignorant and vile as Trump was/is, and sees those as qualities.

Trumps is a US phenomenon, not a French one. US anti-intellectualism and parochialism is not a thing over here.
What's next, Zemmour, a right-wing intellectual as ignorant and vile as Trump?

I struggle to see why you keep defending her.

I'd rather have a debate with people whose ideas I am far from accepting in their entirety than US cancelling culture.
Reductio ad Hitlerem is all the bourgeois left can come up with these days, to make up for their treason of the working class.

Hence my conclusion: Marine LePen is stupid and evil, and every French person not voting against her is stupid and evil. CQFD.

You will have to do better than crappy syllogisms which fail as even basic sophisms. The campaign she has done so far shows she is not stupid. As for evil, leave the binary epithets (manichean if you prefer) for religious-minded Yanks or Al-Quran bashers.

[Sheilbh]

Except the "right" should be divided. There's supposed to be a firewall between democratic forces and fascist ones. When the right is so pissed to be out of power than to be ready to vote for LePen, there is no "right" anymore, just a bunch of fascists.

Yes.

Pécresse will not urge voters to pick Macron in final round

https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/pecresse-will-not-urge-voters-to-pick-macron-in-final-round/

Apparently she'll say who she is voting for personally but not encourage voters to back them. Other senior LRs are likely to reveal they're abstaining.

[Duque de Bragança]

Incidentally - I know it's social media and Le Pen's account so it will be well managed - but this clip of her going through a crowd taking selfies with them is what reminds me of the Corbyn 2017 momentum (and the crowd is so young ):
https://twitter.com/MLP_officiel/status/1512390088856064002?s=20&t=zTM7Mhw10_T_u_-V8v7gjA

It was already the case 2017 with Marine's kitten videos on the web. Something Zemmour will never do. 
Mélenchon probably did, if you insist on someone closer to Corbyn, politically.

[Josquius]

So the left should be divided between the so-called democratic forces and the other part (communists, leftists, indigénistes, communautaristes de tout poil etc.).
However, this is not the case so this double standard has to go.

The days of the red army faction are long gone.
There's a huge difference between naiive idiots who think we can just cancel money and then everyone will be happy and violent thugs who deem some people unworthy of existence and is enjoying a lot of success in the past decade.
This both sides stuff just doesn't reflect the reality that the far right is drastically worse than the far left.

[Admiral Yi]

The days of the red army faction are long gone.
There's a huge difference between naiive idiots who think we can just cancel money and then everyone will be happy and violent thugs who deem some people unworthy of existence and is enjoying a lie of success in the past decade.
This both sides stuff just doesn't reflect the reality that the far right is drastically worse than the far left.

The base of your pudding is decent, but could do with one or two fewer eggs.

It's true that the radical left has eschewed political violence (though it would be nice if they felt the same way about smashing up Starbucks and McDonalds), but the far right has, at least up to now, not engaged in or advocated extermination of minorities.

[Josquius]

]

The base of your pudding is decent, but could do with one or two fewer eggs.

It's true that the radical left has eschewed political violence (though it would be nice if they felt the same way about smashing up Starbucks and McDonalds), but the far right has, at least up to now, not engaged in or advocated extermination of minorities.

Even Hitler didn't outright call for it.
It's clear from their language and their actions that this is the path they wish to tread however. It's particularly apparent with trans people.

[Admiral Yi]

What actions or words would that be?

[Duque de Bragança]

Zemmour or Marine are not particularly interested in trans people, Josquius.

[The Larch]

It seems that Melenchon is ahead by quite a lot in the outremer departments.

[Duque de Bragança]

It seems that Melenchon is ahead by quite a lot in the outremer departments.

Hardly surprising, though I bet he is not ahead in Mayotte.

Abstention at 12:00 and 16:00 higher than the last presidential elections. Only higher in 2002, year of a big upset (Jospin out Le Pen father in).

[Josquius]

What actions or words would that be?

Loads of examples out there. On the trans example for instance the whole manufactured toilet nonsense, the general language of cultural Marxism (literal nazi propeganda), book banning, warped appeals to science, etc...

Zemmour or Marine are not particularly interested in trans people, Josquius.

I was giving an American example to Yi.
As established France the lines are rather different. But pretty similar style shit from the fasc albeit differently targeted. I recall something about calling refugees savages, the mentioned great replacement conspiracies, etc...

[Duque de Bragança]

Zemmour or Marine are not particularly interested in trans people, Josquius.

I was giving an American example to Yi.
As established France the lines are rather different. But pretty similar style shit from the fasc albeit differently targeted. I recall something about calling refugees savages, the mentioned great replacement conspiracies, etc...

Your recollections and analyzes of French issues leave a lot to desire or are outright weird but don't bring the US stuff here. There are already threads about them.

[Duque de Bragança]

Early exit polls, so far from definitive results since it is missing all the small candidates.
This would indicate pre-elections polls were correct but with Macron tied with Le Pen on one hand, and Zemmour with Pécresse on the other hand.

From la Libre Belgique twitter (no polls nor results before 20.00 so still 80 minutes left, as of this posting.
https://twitter.com/lalibrebe/status/1513191854518542342?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1513191854518542342%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tdg.ch%2Fles-bureaux-de-vote-ont-ouvert-pour-le-1er-tour-de-la-presidentielle-904006015940

[Duque de Bragança]

La Libre Belgique says now 24,7 % for Macro and 23,5 % for Marine.