Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Duque de Bragança]

come on.  I'll defend you on lots of things, but not this.  Drop the superior act.  Sheilb is probably more knowledgeable of French politics than I am, yet I am a franco.

Sheilbh is a European, Brexit or not, you are a non-Hispanic French-speaking Latin North American.    Distance also plays a part, sorry.

As for Sheilbh, he is indeed quite knowledgeable, I like his perspective sometimes but he is out of this depth this time. Nothing critical, but debating about a French right-wing intellectual, even a polemical one (polemist by trade) is not the same as an uncultured American demagog.

[Jacob]

So Duque de Bragança, I'm curious - how would you define your political stance? What policies do you support? What are the most important political actions that the French state should take, that it is not currently taking? Which politicians and political parties are the least inadequate, in your view?

It is clear from your frequent comments that you find multiculturalism bankrupt and Islam harmful, but I'm interested in hearing what other content there might be to your politics if you care to articulate them.

[Duque de Bragança]

Let's say it's Le Pen vs Macron for the 2nd round.

Who would you vote for Duque?

Ideally, there would be other choices. Last time, it was a blank vote.

[Duque de Bragança]

Quite open? Duque is constantly equivocating about his support for the far right ("too late, sorry!"), and just oversaturates his posts with so much oblique references, ellipses, fake irony, ultra-specific points about French politics using nicknames borrowed from the French press (sometimes from years ago) that I doubt people here really understand what his values are.

It's a pretty clear strategy and one which is consistent with a recognizable position. While I lack the detailed knowledge to place it specifically in a French context, the MO is fairly widespread and not that ambiguous (in spite of the deliberate embracing of ambiguity as a strategy).

Well, at least you recognise you lack the knowledge, but since you seem to be judging everything from an anglo North American context, basically you are in no position to have a well-informed opinion about French politics. Please don't take it personally. It's factual. Does not mean you are dumb, of course. I don't believe I implied it.

As for ambiguity.  My position about Ségolène Royal and the PS and its by-products such as Jupiter (Macron stated he wanted to be a Jupiterian president) is well-known. I even voted Sarkozy against her and Flanby, despite not being a great fan of Sarkozy. Viper might remember the time I preferred Bayou (long gone). In retrospect, if Bayrou had managed to be president instead of Macron, things would have been different. Macron realised its dream of recycling the PS and part of the right. A dream dating from Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, a former centrist president.

[Duque de Bragança]

So Duque de Bragança, I'm curious - how would you define your political stance? What policies do you support? What are the most important political actions that the French state should take, that it is not currently taking? Which politicians and political parties are the least inadequate, in your view?

It is clear from your frequent comments that you find multiculturalism bankrupt and Islam harmful, but I'm interested in hearing what other content there might be to your politics if you care to articulate them.

If you are that interested, that will be later, such as tomorrow probably. I'm done for the night.

[Zoupa]

Let's say it's Le Pen vs Macron for the 2nd round.

Who would you vote for Duque?

Ideally, there would be other choices. Last time, it was a blank vote.

Et donc cette fois ci?

Pourquoi c'est si dur de te tirer les vers du nez? C'est une question assez simple...

[Duque de Bragança]

Let's say it's Le Pen vs Macron for the 2nd round.

Who would you vote for Duque?

Ideally, there would be other choices. Last time, it was a blank vote.

Et donc cette fois ci?

Pourquoi c'est si dur de te tirer les vers du nez? C'est une question assez simple...

Tout simplement parce que nous ne sommes pas encore au second tour, et que le vote est censé être secret.

C'est bien parti pour encore un vote blanc, sauf je décide d'être gentil et de faire plaisir à Œx en votant Marine ou même Zemmour, pour qu'il ait raison pour une fois.

[Oexmelin]

It's still common parlance. Just because Flanby is forgotten abroad, rightly perhaps, does not mean his legacy is still around i.e Macron. The self-styled enemy of finance hiring a Rotschild banker, that has to be something unforgettable.

I guess it all depends whether or not you see the point of this place as actually communicating your ideas or just to feel self-satisfied about your own wit. Not that both are mutually exclusive, but you fail singularly at the first, at least on Languish.

[Jacob]

Well, at least you recognise you lack the knowledge, but since you seem to be judging everything from an anglo North American context, basically you are in no position to have a well-informed opinion about French politics. Please don't take it personally. It's factual. Does not mean you are dumb, of course. I don't believe I implied it.

With one minor exception, we are in agreement here

I have exposure to politics outside of an Anglo North American context, so that is not my only frame of reference. Not French, though, which is one of the reasons why I am interested.

As for ambiguity.  My position about Ségolène Royal and the PS and its by-products such as Jupiter (Macron stated he wanted to be a Jupiterian president) is well-known. I even voted Sarkozy against her and Flanby, despite not being a great fan of Sarkozy. Viper might remember the time I preferred Bayou (long gone). In retrospect, if Bayrou had managed to be president instead of Macron, things would have been different. Macron realised its dream of recycling the PS and part of the right. A dream dating from Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, a former centrist president.

It's reasonably clear what or whom you are against ... less clear what you're for, but as you said: maybe tomorrow.

[Jacob]

If you are that interested, that will be later, such as tomorrow probably. I'm done for the night.

I am interested. Have a good night

[Zoupa]

Let's say it's Le Pen vs Macron for the 2nd round.

Who would you vote for Duque?

Ideally, there would be other choices. Last time, it was a blank vote.

Et donc cette fois ci?

Pourquoi c'est si dur de te tirer les vers du nez? C'est une question assez simple...

Tout simplement parce que nous ne sommes pas encore au second tour, et que le vote est censé être secret.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Donc va pour les fachos alors.

C'est plus la peine de se cacher tu sais. Vous êtes 45% apparemment. Assumez.

[Duque de Bragança]

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Donc va pour les fachos alors.

Je n'ai pas dit Mélenchon, y compris contre Jupiter, grand ami de Poutine et des islamistes, grand raciste envers les centre et est-européens (sauf s'il s'agit d'un dictateur).
Bravo au fait pour la manipulation digne du gaucho FB où je dis que c'est bien parti pour un vote blanc.

C'est plus la peine de se cacher tu sais. Vous êtes 45% apparemment. Assumez.

45 % ? Marine + Zemmour au second tour (un peu dur pour dDupont-Aignan ? Si c'est avéré, c'est un grand succès pour Jupiter.

J'ai toujours assumé voter au centre-droit/droite dans un contexte français donc européen mais ici  droite française (ou portugaise tiens encore pire avec le PSD) c'est limite gaucho.

Le théâtre "anti-fasciste" de vichyste Mitterrand très peu moi, désolé. Même Yoyo n'était pas convaincu, c'est dire.

[Duque de Bragança]

It's still common parlance. Just because Flanby is forgotten abroad, rightly perhaps, does not mean his legacy is still around i.e Macron. The self-styled enemy of finance hiring a Rotschild banker, that has to be something unforgettable.

I guess it all depends whether or not you see the point of this place as actually communicating your ideas or just to feel self-satisfied about your own wit. Not that both are mutually exclusive, but you fail singularly at the first, at least on Languish.

You have been notoriously drinking the US ID politic leftist koolaid for too long in your echo chamber, so some ideas are unpalatable to you.

As for Flanby, it's not even from the French press, but from his own party (Montebourg IIRC) just to show how clueless you have become about French politics. You don't like Flanby because it's too Franco-centric yet it triggers you. Make up your mind.

Here is a list of more arcane nicknames :

Fraise des bois
C'est sans doute le surnom le plus célèbre de François Hollande. Laurent Fabius en est l'auteur. "A-t-on jamais caché un éléphant derrière une fraise des bois ?" interroge l'ancien plus jeune Premier ministre en visant le patron du PS. On est en 2003, et Fabius regarde le successeur de Jospin de tout son mépris. Hollande est, depuis la défaite du 21 avril 2002, le leader naturel du Parti socialiste. Le comparer à une fraise des bois, c'est souligner sa petitesse devant la grandeur des éléphants. Ce sobriquet est déclinable : Fraise Tagada, pour le côté sucré, Fraise flagada, pour son manque supposé de fermeté...

Monsieur petites blagues
Là encore, c'est Laurent Fabius qui a baptisé de ce surnom méprisant son supérieur hiérarchique au PS. Une autre façon de montrer qu'à part blaguer François Hollande n'est pas bon à grand-chose. Aujourd'hui, Hollande est président, Fabius, son ministre.

Guimauve le Conquérant
Moins connu, mais savoureux, ce détournement est l'oeuvre de Guillaume Bachelay, lieutenant de Fabius - décidément ! Bachelay est un anti-Hollande féroce, devenu par la force des choses soutien du président ; il est aussi normand et plutôt drôle. Le résultat, c'est ce surnom bien trouvé, puisqu'il allie référence historique (Hollande est normand, comme Guillaume... le Conquérant) et allusion au caractère (la guimauve). Sans doute l'un des plus beaux surnoms de Hollande.


Capitaine de pédalo

Le pingouin

Monsieur Bricolage

Pépère

https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/de-flanby-a-pepere-tous-les-surnoms-d-hollande-10-04-2013-1653042_20.php

Detailed explanation for those interested, some were quite common but Flanby seems to be the survivor.

[Sheilbh]

Aside from all that - just returning to my main point yesterday that it looks likely Le Pen will be in the second round again. I'm still very confident that in that scenario, Macron will win (same against Zemmour or Melenchon if they got through). But I think we are in pretty dodgy/dangerous territory in the polling - especially if turn-out is low:


I am less confident than I was before and I feel like cost of living/inflation is something that Macron will be particularly vulnerable on - and that Le Pen can particularly take advantage of.

[Josquius]

Surely le pens Putin love will cost her.