French police going Erdogan over al-niqab?

[Sheilbh]

It's a useful distinction in a religion that kills and clubs people for looking or acting the wrong way.

No it's not. 'Moderate' isn't a positive value in a religious context. As I say you're in effect yielding the argument and saying there's something somehow insufficient in the beliefs of Muslims who don't blow themselves up.

Besides, in Islam there is no distinction between politics and religion.

Bollocks

[Admiral Yi]

No it's not. 'Moderate' isn't a positive value in a religious context. As I say you're in effect yielding the argument and saying there's something somehow insufficient in the beliefs of Muslims who don't blow themselves up.

The antonym of moderate is not sufficient.  It's immoderate, or extremist.

Describes Muslims perfectly.

[Malthus]

It's a useful distinction in a religion that kills and clubs people for looking or acting the wrong way.

No it's not. 'Moderate' isn't a positive value in a religious context. As I say you're in effect yielding the argument and saying there's something somehow insufficient in the beliefs of Muslims who don't blow themselves up.

Besides, in Islam there is no distinction between politics and religion.

Bollocks

As in, "an extreme Jain wears no clothes and will not even squish a mosquito; a moderate Jain can't achieve that level of austerity". The implication is that the "moderate" is lacking in dedication, and if they were really dedicated, they would be an extremist.

[Valmy]

As in, "an extreme Jain wears no clothes and will not even squish a mosquito; a moderate Jain can't achieve that level of austerity". The implication is that the "moderate" is lacking in dedication, and if they were really dedicated, they would be an extremist.

Well Judaism has 'Right Belief' Judiasm and 'Ultra Right Belief' Judaism.  Which seems to hint that all others are less right in their beliefs.

[Malthus]

As in, "an extreme Jain wears no clothes and will not even squish a mosquito; a moderate Jain can't achieve that level of austerity". The implication is that the "moderate" is lacking in dedication, and if they were really dedicated, they would be an extremist.

Well Judaism has 'Right Belief' Judiasm and 'Ultra Right Belief' Judaism.  Which seems to hint that all others are less right in their beliefs.

Orthodox Jews definitely think this is true!   

Note that the opposite sects are known as "Reform" and "Reconstruction", which also tends to suggest what adherents to these groups think of that claim. 

[Sheilbh]

The antonym of moderate is not sufficient.  It's immoderate, or extremist.

What bit of a 'moderate Muslims' Islam is being moderated? Which bit are they reining in?

It's an insulting thing to describe someone's faith as moderate. You can be fully Muslim and actually go out drinking, or be down with gay marriage. That doesn't make someone's faith anymore moderate.

We do Christianity, and Judaism, the courtesy of respecting divisions based on theology and liturgical views. We don't do it for Muslims, we impose a political framework on their beliefs that, perversely, makes the extremists sound like they're somehow more Muslim.

As in, "an extreme Jain wears no clothes and will not even squish a mosquito; a moderate Jain can't achieve that level of austerity". The implication is that the "moderate" is lacking in dedication, and if they were really dedicated, they would be an extremist.

Exactly. I've been thinking about it with the Church because of some of the Pope's recent comments on a 'Pelagian' current versus a 'Gnostic' current within the Church and the eternal traditionalist v modernist row.

I didn't like it during the conclave when journalists talked about liberal and conservative candidates. I'd flip my lid if they called Francis a 'moderate Catholic'

[Admiral Yi]

What bit of a 'moderate Muslims' Islam is being moderated? Which bit are they reining in?

Punishment of sin.

[derspiess]

I'm fairly devout but I don't think I'd be bothered if someone called me a moderate Christian.  "Moderate" usually carries positive connotations.

[Tamas]

Sheilbh, Christianity could have been made to a degree apolitical because its holy text never intended to regulate all aspects of everyday life. Islam has done that, and therefore it cannot ever be distinguished from politics.

[Sheilbh]

"Moderate" usually carries positive connotations.

Well as I say I think it does in political terms. It's perjorative when you're describing someone's professed faith.

Punishment of sin.

So Christians who don't believe in hell are 'moderate Christians' too?

[Admiral Yi]

So Christians who don't believe in hell are 'moderate Christians' too?

This is Razz like in it's non-sequiturishness.

Jesus didn't tell his followers to beat up sinners.  Mohammed did.

[Jacob]

Besides, in Islam there is no distinction between politics and religion.

Is there a distinction between politics and religion in Christianity?

[Maximus]

Sheilbh, Christianity could have been made to a degree apolitical because its holy text never intended to regulate all aspects of everyday life.

That is a point of view.

[Admiral Yi]

Is there a distinction between politics and religion in Christianity?

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and render unto God that which is God's."

"My kingdom is not of this earth."

Of course there is.

[Valmy]

Is there a distinction between politics and religion in Christianity?

Yes.

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's

The secular state and religion are separate.  Which really was one of the foundations of Christendom...until the Lutherans anyway.