French police going Erdogan over al-niqab?

[merithyn]

Republicans are telling me that the Mexicans are the worst sort of immigrant. How much more "troublesome" can it get?

Are they in fact the worst sort of immigrant?

[Valmy]

This second sentence is precisely what the activists said about Catholics in the US for over 100 years.

That would require a rather fantastic ignorance of Catholic history

I cannot speak for Islam in this matter I admit.  I know they did have things like Caliphs who were sort of Caesar-Popes but pretty sure today the House of Saud do not consider themselves religious leaders...but what do I know?  Iran, on the other hand, but at least that is a modern innovation.

[Valmy]

Of course the UK is technically a theocracy

[merithyn]

This second sentence is precisely what the activists said about Catholics in the US for over 100 years.

That would require a rather fantastic ignorance of Catholic history

I cannot speak for Islam in this matter I admit.  I know they did have things like Caliphs who were sort of Caesar-Popes but pretty sure today the House of Saud do not consider themselves religious leaders...but what do I know?

It was because of the Pope. It was believed that as a Catholic, their allegience would be first to the Pope and his law, and then to his/her country. So, if a Catholic were made President, he/she would be beholden to the Pope first, and the American people second.

[grumbler]

Personal freedom can only be guaranteed through vigorous state intervention into people's clothing?

We had to destroy the freedom in order to save it. 

[Razgovory]

This second sentence is precisely what the activists said about Catholics in the US for over 100 years.

That would require a rather fantastic ignorance of Catholic history

I cannot speak for Islam in this matter I admit.  I know they did have things like Caliphs who were sort of Caesar-Popes but pretty sure today the House of Saud do not consider themselves religious leaders...but what do I know?

I meant to say Nativists instead of activists., but I think you got what I was saying.  The idea was that Catholic voters and Catholic politicians would be following the will of the Pope and thus were totally incompatible with Democracy.  JFK had to address this issue when he ran for President.

[Valmy]

I meant to say Nativists instead of activists., but I think you got what I was saying.  The idea was that Catholic voters and Catholic politicians would be following the will of the Pope and thus were totally incompatible with Democracy.  JFK had to address this issue when he ran for President.

Yes though I am not sure that is the same thing as saying there is no distinction between religion and politics.  But why exactly should we discuss such a ridiculous idea?  I mean the Italians had just held the Pope hostage for sixty years before JFK ran.

[derspiess]

You don't hit the one mark he set, which was to wait until you have as many troublesome immigrants as France does.

Republicans are telling me that the Mexicans are the worst sort of immigrant. How much more "troublesome" can it get?

The Mexicans I know make awesome immigrants. But then again they're educated, assimilate easily, and aren't breaking the law.

[Jacob]

Yes though I am not sure that is the same thing as saying there is no distinction between religion and politics.  But why exactly should we discuss such a ridiculous idea?  I mean the Italians had just held the Pope hostage for sixty years before JFK ran.

A claim was made that there is no distinction between religion and politics in Islam, and this is used to argue for a number of political actions aimed at Muslims.

A similar argument was made at Catholics in the past, to similarly target them socially and politically.

Comparing the similarities and differences could theoretically illuminate our understanding of the subject at hand.

[merithyn]

The Mexicans I know make awesome immigrants. But then again they're educated, assimilate easily, and aren't breaking the law.

Then why are we trying to push them out?

[Valmy]

A claim was made that there is no distinction between religion and politics in Islam, and this is used to argue for a number of political actions aimed at Muslims.

A similar argument was made at Catholics in the past, to similarly target them socially and politically.

Comparing the similarities and differences could theoretically illuminate our understanding of the subject at hand.

I am not even sure if that is exactly a similar argument.  For them to be similar we would have to assume both accusations had identical motives and accuracy.  I am not sure if it is accurate in Islam and I do not know if it is being spread around to target them socially or politically.  I mean I presume Yi is not intending to do that.

[Valmy]

The Mexicans I know make awesome immigrants. But then again they're educated, assimilate easily, and aren't breaking the law.

Then why are we trying to push them out?

We are doing a remarkably bad job.  But generally the answer is: insanity.

[Sheilbh]

This is Razz like in it's non-sequiturishness.

Jesus didn't tell his followers to beat up sinners.  Mohammed did.

But this is my point. The reason they don't believe in recreating 6th century Arabia isn't because they're moderate, or because they're reining in their beliefs. It's because they don't have a fundamentalist, sola scriptura approach to the Koran - that's a theological difference. Or because they come from a culture that has a traditional variant of Islam lacking in those punishments - a cultural/liturgical difference.

It isn't because they're reining in their beliefs any more than a Unitarian is against a Holy Roller.

[grumbler]

The Mexicans I know make awesome immigrants. But then again they're educated, assimilate easily, and aren't breaking the law.

Then why are we trying to push them out?

Good question, but poorly aimed.  Why are you trying to push out legal Mexican immigrants?  Seems foolish to me.

[derspiess]

The Mexicans I know make awesome immigrants. But then again they're educated, assimilate easily, and aren't breaking the law.

Then why are we trying to push them out?

We're not.