Spain's $680 Million submarine can only dive, not resurface

[Zanza]

Germany would certainly not do anything but sending strongly worded protest notes if China invaded Taiwan or so.

An aggressive authoritarian state without regard for the rule of law invades its democratic neighbor (and perhaps instigates a war with the US), and all you do is shrug? Maybe that's your problem right there.

If Germany wants any sort of say in the world we live in (peaceful and democratic or violent and authoritarian; under the rule of law or not; respectful of human rights or filled with atrocities) its going to at least have to be able to fight for it. Closing your eyes and wishing really hard (and hoping the US will bear the burden alone) isn't going to do it. If Germany doesn't care to have a voice in the future, and its highest ambition is to be like Sweden in WW2, left alone to peacefully sell iron ore to the Nazis, well, then, I guess stay on the path that you're on.

Unlike America, we don't feel like we have any kind of global responsibility or global foreign policy mission to fight for democracy or liberty. We care about what happens in Europe (well, except its Eastern fringes). And that's about it. We certainly look at democracy and liberty elsewhere in an approving fashion and will provide political consultants or institutional help or aid or whatever, but not soldiers. Conflict between African states? Send some humanitarian aid. Conflict between Arabs and Iran? Let's try to sell them weapons. Conflict in East Asia? Maybe we can sell them weapons as well? Conflict in the Americas? Monroe Doctrine.

[Zanza]

What could do with its military now if China invades Taiwan (assuming there was will in Germany to fight)?

Even at the height of its military power (maybe 1914, 1941, 1985), Germany never had any realistic capability to do anything about the invasion of an island half way around the world. And I don't really see why it should.

[Valmy]

Even at the height of its military power (maybe 1914, 1941, 1985), Germany never had any realistic capability to do anything about the invasion of an island half way around the world. And I don't really see why it should.

They could have struck with their mighty East Asian Squadron.  Could China have invaded Taiwan with the Scharnhorst and the Emden in their way eh?

[crazy canuck]

The ability to control thousands of miles of coastline might not be important for Germany, but it is for Spain.

To avoid the reverse Reconquista

[MadImmortalMan]

Unlike America, we don't feel like we have any kind of global responsibility or global foreign policy mission to fight for democracy or liberty.

Why?

[Valmy]

To avoid the reverse Reconquista

A reverse reverse conquest?  I like it!

[Caliga]

Conflict in the Americas? Monroe Doctrine.

Damn right.  GET OFF OF OUR LAWN.

[Valmy]

Unlike America, we don't feel like we have any kind of global responsibility or global foreign policy mission to fight for democracy or liberty.

Why?

Because Germans only get inspired for military operations when it is for the cause of evil.  Good is boring.

[Syt]

Evil also gets cooler uniforms, most of the time.

[Zanza]

Unlike America, we don't feel like we have any kind of global responsibility or global foreign policy mission to fight for democracy or liberty.

Why?

We prefer a policy of non-intervention. Except in our direct backyard, the European Union, where we are very active, and some minor international commitments, e.g. fighting against piracy. Maybe comparable to US foreign policy 1776 - 1917?

America seems pretty exceptional in having this global agenda. Most countries just mind their own business and aren't particularly active in promoting their values or policies abroad.

Some Americans (e.g. our Ed Anger) seem to share that kind of sentiment.

[MadImmortalMan]

Unlike America, we don't feel like we have any kind of global responsibility or global foreign policy mission to fight for democracy or liberty.

Why?

We prefer a policy of non-intervention. Except in our direct backyard, the European Union, where we are very active, and some minor international commitments, e.g. fighting against piracy. Maybe comparable to US foreign policy 1776 - 1917?

America seems pretty exceptional in having this global agenda. Most countries just mind their own business and aren't particularly active in promoting their values or policies abroad.

Some Americans (e.g. our Ed Anger) seem to share that kind of sentiment.

France is pretty active. Is Germany not a more responsible international actor than France?

[Valmy]

Evil also gets cooler uniforms, most of the time.

Some Americans (e.g. our Ed Anger) seem to share that kind of sentiment.

Alot of us do actually.  If anybody else wants to take over maintaining global stability someday that would be great thanks.

[Valmy]

Is Germany not a more responsible international actor than France?

Few are.

[Caliga]

The thing is: I don't trust anyone else to do it correctly.  I mean, our police actions in Iraq and Afghanistan could not have gone better 

[Zanza]

France is pretty active. Is Germany not a more responsible international actor than France?

You seem to equate active and responsible. Not sure if I would agree with that equation.

When just considering activeness, France is clearly a more active international actor than Germany when it comes to military action, especially in their former colonies.

I have no real basis to compare France's and Germany's activities in non-military foreign policy, but I would assume that France is more active in its former colonies at least. However, Germany also has a quite active foreign policy, just not a strong military component to it. But that's not all there is to foreign policy.