2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Capetan Mihali]

The only reason we pay is a bribe that came out of that Camp David Accord thing right? I know we also give/gave a shit load to Egypt for no particular reason as well.

So why continue to bribe them?  We pay Egypt 1/3 of what we pay Israel, and that's after Egypt achieved a surprise military victory over them.  Otherwise we'd be talking about the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan, *and* the Sinai.

What kind of odd counterfactual world do you live in? Israel defeated Egypt in '73 and HANDED the Sinai pack to them as part of the Camp David peace agreement.

After having the shit kicked out of them initially, displaying all kinds of incompetence and shameful (for the military) unpreparedness, before Egypt made a strategic retreat, forcing the Israelis to overextend themselves, getting close to a billion bucks a year out of it.  Can't see it as anything but an overall Egyptian victory, compared to the status quo antebellum.

[Malthus]

It doesn't matter - it's just odd that one country's politician not only considers security of another country non-negotiable - but considers anyone who thinks differently to be unfit for an elected office. It smacks of treason.

If it makes you feel better we do not consider our NATO allies security negotiable either. Just nobody gets all pissy when we declare we support Poland and Latvia. Is that treason as well?

If Poland started, say, firing off rockets into Russia, I would expect the US government not to support us at all cost if Russia strikes back.

I'm pretty sure "joining in any war Israel chooses to participate in or start" isn't what was meant - considering that the US has not, in fact, joined any of the wars Israel has fought in (including any of the recent ones).

It probably means something more like "not allowing a serious existential threat to the country as a whole to develop".

[Valmy]

Ok let's say Poland illegally invaded and occupied the Kaliningrad district.

As opposed to a legal invasion?

It depends on what the context is.

[Capetan Mihali]

Yes, we're back to Israel! Oh how I missed the spirited Languish of '03, only I've got play the Euro role since we lost so many.

[Eddie Teach]

If Poland started, say, firing off rockets into Russia, I would expect the US government not to support us at all cost if Russia strikes back.

If you're making an analogy to Israel, than splinter groups of Russians with varying support from their government have been firing their own rockets into Poland for a while, as well as planting bombs inside the country. It's not like Duda and Szydlo just decided out of the blue to start bombing Russia.

[Malthus]

The only reason we pay is a bribe that came out of that Camp David Accord thing right? I know we also give/gave a shit load to Egypt for no particular reason as well.

So why continue to bribe them?  We pay Egypt 1/3 of what we pay Israel, and that's after Egypt achieved a surprise military victory over them.  Otherwise we'd be talking about the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan, *and* the Sinai.

What kind of odd counterfactual world do you live in? Israel defeated Egypt in '73 and HANDED the Sinai pack to them as part of the Camp David peace agreement.

After having the shit kicked out of them initially, displaying all kinds of incompetence and shameful (for the military) unpreparedness, before Egypt made a strategic retreat, forcing the Israelis to overextend themselves, getting close to a billion bucks a year out of it.  Can't see it as anything but an overall Egyptian victory, compared to the status quo antebellum.

By your standards, Germany won WW2. 

[Martinus]

It doesn't matter - it's just odd that one country's politician not only considers security of another country non-negotiable - but considers anyone who thinks differently to be unfit for an elected office. It smacks of treason.

If it makes you feel better we do not consider our NATO allies security negotiable either. Just nobody gets all pissy when we declare we support Poland and Latvia. Is that treason as well?

If Poland started, say, firing off rockets into Russia, I would expect the US government not to support us at all cost if Russia strikes back.

I'm pretty sure "joining in any war Israel chooses to participate in or start" isn't what was meant - considering that the US has not, in fact, joined any of the wars Israel has fought in (including any of the recent ones).

It probably means something more like "not allowing a serious existential threat to the country as a whole to develop".

Yeah but then given the generally hostile and belligrent attitude Israel has, how different is that?

[Malthus]

It doesn't matter - it's just odd that one country's politician not only considers security of another country non-negotiable - but considers anyone who thinks differently to be unfit for an elected office. It smacks of treason.

If it makes you feel better we do not consider our NATO allies security negotiable either. Just nobody gets all pissy when we declare we support Poland and Latvia. Is that treason as well?

If Poland started, say, firing off rockets into Russia, I would expect the US government not to support us at all cost if Russia strikes back.

I'm pretty sure "joining in any war Israel chooses to participate in or start" isn't what was meant - considering that the US has not, in fact, joined any of the wars Israel has fought in (including any of the recent ones).

It probably means something more like "not allowing a serious existential threat to the country as a whole to develop".

Yeah but then given the generally hostile and belligrent attitude Israel has, how different is that?

Huh?

[DGuller]

As discussed above, we're in an alliance together.  Israel does not have the duties of an ally towards the US or Canada, AFAIK.

Still, I'm genuinely glad many posters here agree that the US should cut all military aid to Israel.  That's been a controversial position in the past, but I think people are seeing how intractable the Israeli government has become and no longer see any hope for a positive outcome from "constructive engagement" with Israel.

Sharing conclusions does not imply sharing the reasoning.  I don't think there are too many people here who share your reasoning, to put it politely, and you're just trying to sneak it in there as an accepted fact.

[Capetan Mihali]

By your standards, Germany won WW2. 

If they lost as many men as Egypt did in 1973, I'd say West Germany certainly would have, considering Cairo wasn't flattened and the civilian casualties were pretty minimal.

It's not EU2.  What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?  You think the '73 war had nothing to do with that?

[Valmy]

Yes, we're back to Israel! Oh how I missed the spirited Languish of '03, only I've got play the Euro role since we lost so many.

Oh FFS. You are so insufferable

[Valmy]

Yeah but then given the generally hostile and belligrent attitude Israel has, how different is that?

Towards us? They just ignore us alot. Annoying but not belligerent or hostile.

[Eddie Teach]

What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?

All the ones with oil to sell.

[Capetan Mihali]

As discussed above, we're in an alliance together.  Israel does not have the duties of an ally towards the US or Canada, AFAIK.

Still, I'm genuinely glad many posters here agree that the US should cut all military aid to Israel.  That's been a controversial position in the past, but I think people are seeing how intractable the Israeli government has become and no longer see any hope for a positive outcome from "constructive engagement" with Israel.

Sharing conclusions does not imply sharing the reasoning.  I don't think there are too many people here who share your reasoning, to put it politely, and you're just trying to sneak it in there as an accepted fact.

From what I've seen, they accept maybe 75% of my reasoning -- Israel is not an accountable ally, its policies and actions worsen the situation in the region, they are a first-world country that doesn't need 3 billion of our tax  dollars to protect itself -- if not my basic attitude towards Israel i.e. hostile.

[Capetan Mihali]

What other Arab country gets close to 1 billion a year from the US?

All the ones with oil to sell.