2016 elections - because it's never too early

[OttoVonBismarck]

Troubling that anyone could see Trump in that debate and think he has any business running for President.  Most people over the age of 8 or 9 have better self-control.

I mean that's been Trump since the day he announced--actually it's been Trump for about 10 year if not more (I remember in the 80s and early 90s he was a bit of an assholish egotistical rich guy, but hadn't gone full on cartoon character yet.) I think since support of Donald is rooted in a very strange mode of thinking totally alien to me that I doubt any debate explosion by Trump will hurt his candidacy at all. I'm not sure if anything could hurt his candidacy with the core Trump supporters other than reversing his position on anti-immigration. He's essentially tapping into the same voters the Know Nothings did in the 19th century.

[Phillip V]

Troubling that anyone could see Trump in that debate and think he has any business running for President.  Most people over the age of 8 or 9 have better self-control.

I mean that's been Trump since the day he announced--actually it's been Trump for about 10 year if not more (I remember in the 80s and early 90s he was a bit of an assholish egotistical rich guy, but hadn't gone full on cartoon character yet.) I think since support of Donald is rooted in a very strange mode of thinking totally alien to me that I doubt any debate explosion by Trump will hurt his candidacy at all. I'm not sure if anything could hurt his candidacy with the core Trump supporters other than reversing his position on anti-immigration. He's essentially tapping into the same voters the Know Nothings did in the 19th century.

Trump's First Campaign Speech - 1987, New Hampshire

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/donald-trump-first-campaign-speech-new-hampshire-1987-213595

Trump began by telling the people who were there that he wouldn’t run for president in 1988, which disappointed some. Then Trump railed, with no notes, and for roughly the next half hour, about Japan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Washington, Wall Street, politicians, economists and “nice people” of whom he had “had enough,” he said. This country was facing “disaster” and was “being kicked around.” Other countries were “laughing at us.”

“It makes me sick,” Trump said.

“If the right man doesn’t get into office,” he warned the Rotarians, “you’re going to see a catastrophe in this country in the next four years like you’re never going to believe. And then you’ll be begging for the right man.”

[OttoVonBismarck]

Ugh, I can't believe it's 2016 and we're having a non-American argument on conservative/classical liberalism confusion. This has been established here for a long time--small c-conservatism in the United States is synonymous with much of the tenets of classical liberalism. Same even in Britain--the Tories are considered a conservative party but also a lot of them are classical liberals (especially now that the Lib Dem party has essentially died.) Free Trade in America has always been much more strongly supported by the Republicans, the only super full-throated supporter of it on the D side was Bill Clinton, who on economic matters essentially became a classical liberal right after the GOP took the House.

[Martinus]

Ugh, I can't believe it's 2016 and we're having a non-American argument on conservative/classical liberalism confusion. This has been established here for a long time--small c-conservatism in the United States is synonymous with much of the tenets of classical liberalism. Same even in Britain--the Tories are considered a conservative party but also a lot of them are classical liberals (especially now that the Lib Dem party has essentially died.) Free Trade in America has always been much more strongly supported by the Republicans, the only super full-throated supporter of it on the D side was Bill Clinton, who on economic matters essentially became a classical liberal right after the GOP took the House.

That's all fine but this debate really started by BB claiming that "conservatism has won as an ideology" because the world adopted essentially liberal ideas on capitalism as the mainstream. That's a bit like saying that conservatism has won because women can vote and all modern conservatives generally support voting rights for women...

[Martinus]

I know the answer you're fishing for is "Republicans", but that's not really the case.  Crony capitalism and oligarchy is not any more free market than regulated free market favored by the Democrats.

What are you talking about when you say crony capitalism and oligarchy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy

[Admiral Yi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy

So, awarding government contracts to family members in Malaysia?  I didn't know that was Republican policy.

[Valmy]

who on economic matters essentially became a classical liberal right after the GOP took the House.

The Republicans held the House in 1993? They did not. So how do you explain Clinton's very vocal support of NAFTA?

[PJL]

Well the conservative Republican establishment may be pro free trade but the reactionary/fascist wing (which is what is really is, rather than conservatism) of the party isn't.

[Valmy]

Well the conservative Republican establishment may be pro free trade but the reactionary/fascist wing (which is what is really is, rather than conservatism) of the party isn't.

Something they and the radical left can agree upon.

[DGuller]

Well the conservative Republican establishment may be pro free trade but the reactionary/fascist wing (which is what is really is, rather than conservatism) of the party isn't.

Something they and the radical left can agree upon.

The ultimate kind of tribalism.

[Phillip V]

Post-debate, Trump has doubled down and is campaigning across South Carolina on his anti-GWBush, Iraq War lies, and pro-Planned Parenthood rhetoric.   


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/15/donald-trump-escalates-rhetoric-before-south-carolina-primary/

[alfred russel]

Post-debate, Trump has doubled down and is campaigning across South Carolina on his anti-GWBush, Iraq War lies, and pro-Planned Parenthood rhetoric.   


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/15/donald-trump-escalates-rhetoric-before-south-carolina-primary/

In the same way calling Mexicans rapists seems wrong ethically, those statements seem wrong politically.

[celedhring]

Post-debate, Trump has doubled down and is campaigning across South Carolina on his anti-GWBush, Iraq War lies, and pro-Planned Parenthood rhetoric.   


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/15/donald-trump-escalates-rhetoric-before-south-carolina-primary/

Trump is trying really hard to alienate the Republican base, must be some kind of bet.

[alfred russel]

Trump is trying really hard to alienate the Republican base, must be some kind of bet.

He is the political equivalent of Charlie Sheen when Charlie Sheen was going nuts with his "winning" routine and people loved him for it.

[viper37]

Ugh, I can't believe it's 2016 and we're having a non-American argument on conservative/classical liberalism confusion. This has been established here for a long time--small c-conservatism in the United States is synonymous with much of the tenets of classical liberalism. Same even in Britain--the Tories are considered a conservative party but also a lot of them are classical liberals (especially now that the Lib Dem party has essentially died.) Free Trade in America has always been much more strongly supported by the Republicans, the only super full-throated supporter of it on the D side was Bill Clinton, who on economic matters essentially became a classical liberal right after the GOP took the House.

Republicans always support free trade.  In speeches.  When it comes down to doing it, they are against it and will invoke any kind of proctionist measure they can get away with for as long as they can get away with.