2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Razgovory]

Also, Ben Carson using an obviously fake Stalin quote.

[Martinus]

GOP debates are much more entertaining. 

[Legbiter]

New poll now out for South Carolina.

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/rep/screp.html

Trump- 35%
Kasich- 15%
Rubio- 14%
Cruz- 12%
Bush- 10%
Carson- 2%

 

Trump has the populist lane, Cruz the conservative and Rubio, Bush and Kasich as the establishment take each other out. Another slam dunk for Trump.

[alfred russel]

New poll now out for South Carolina.

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/rep/screp.html

Trump- 35%
Kasich- 15%
Rubio- 14%
Cruz- 12%
Bush- 10%
Carson- 2%

That may be the worst case for the R/B/K line. 3 of them bunched close together, no clear frontrunner and no one clearly knocked out. Also arranged in inverse order of their funding (and presumably ability to ignore negative results and keep going).

I'm going to go back a way and weigh in where OvB said that Rubio doesn't really fit in with the trio. I assume the reference is that Rubio is more conservative, but also could have been a reference to experience. And he is right, but...

The competition right now is:

- Trump, who is obviously doing his own thing and isn't your standard republican nominee
- Cruz, who is running on things like doing away with all income taxes and abolishing the IRS

[Eddie Teach]

Still, the "establishment" lane and Cruz street could potentially merge well before the convention.

[DGuller]

OvB said that Sanders "honestly" wants to effect change that would require the forceful overthrow of the US Constitution.

He then said that he doesn't think Sanders wants to forcefully overthrow the Constitution, but that what he wants would require that - so cool, he walked that back.

But the point is that all the Hillary supporters are all agreeing with OvB in his "story" that Sanders is so crazy radical that he either could never get anything done because what he wants to do requires violence, or that if he did compromise, then he is just like Hillary anyway. Neither of which is remotely true. There are good reasons to choose Clinton over Sanders, policy reasons, but THESE reasons come down to "He isn't really a democrat!" - not policy.

He is not like Hillary - he (like Trump) is an anti-establishment rebel. He refuses (at least his story is such) to be bought out by corporate America, and become their pawn. That has nothing to do with whether or not he would or would not be willing to compromise to get things done, and everything to do with rejecting the same old same old partisan bullshit that our resident Dems are rushing to defend.

This fictitious narrative of Sanders being some crazy nutjob is backed up by the tribal Dems because they would rather climb into bed with OvB than see a lefty who is not really one of their tribe knock off their bona-fide tribe leader Hillary.

I will vote for Hillary over Sanders, because I agree with her policy positions more, and I think socialism is a pretty terrible thing. But I can certainly understand the appeal of Sanders, and why he terrifies the establishment sheep enough to get them to make common cause with someone as right wing as OvB.

No names?  No quotes?

[DGuller]

Let's give Berkut some time to Google up one Democrat who said such a thing, so that it doesn't look like he just made shit up.

Okay, he had his chance.

He was talking about you, not politicians.

I'm well aware, and he still retains the inability to actually read someone's post before ranting on and on.  We are so lucky to have clear-eyed Berkut, who without the baggage of tribe, race, religion or the ability to internalize what others are saying, can show us how we are blinded by such petty things.

"Someone disagrees with me?  Tribalism!"

"A Democrat agrees with another Democrat?  Typical.  Tribalism!"

"A Democrat disagrees with a Republican?  Tribalism!"

"A Democrat agrees with a Republican?  That's like double Tribalism!".

[DGuller]

New poll now out for South Carolina.

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/rep/screp.html

Trump- 35%
Kasich- 15%
Rubio- 14%
Cruz- 12%
Bush- 10%
Carson- 2%

That may be the worst case for the R/B/K line. 3 of them bunched close together, no clear frontrunner and no one clearly knocked out. Also arranged in inverse order of their funding (and presumably ability to ignore negative results and keep going).

I'm going to go back a way and weigh in where OvB said that Rubio doesn't really fit in with the trio. I assume the reference is that Rubio is more conservative, but also could have been a reference to experience. And he is right, but...

The competition right now is:

- Trump, who is obviously doing his own thing and isn't your standard republican nominee
- Cruz, who is running on things like doing away with all income taxes and abolishing the IRS

The thing is that Kasich hasn't been tested by fire yet the way everyone else has been.  There may have been some NH-only ads, but he hasn't been enough of a threat yet to draw the attention.  Now may be his turn, let's see how he fares once the guns turn on him.

[Fate]

New poll now out for South Carolina.

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/rep/screp.html

Trump- 35%
Kasich- 15%
Rubio- 14%
Cruz- 12%
Bush- 10%
Carson- 2%

That may be the worst case for the R/B/K line. 3 of them bunched close together, no clear frontrunner and no one clearly knocked out. Also arranged in inverse order of their funding (and presumably ability to ignore negative results and keep going).

I'm going to go back a way and weigh in where OvB said that Rubio doesn't really fit in with the trio. I assume the reference is that Rubio is more conservative, but also could have been a reference to experience. And he is right, but...

The competition right now is:

- Trump, who is obviously doing his own thing and isn't your standard republican nominee
- Cruz, who is running on things like doing away with all income taxes and abolishing the IRS

The thing is that Kasich hasn't been tested by fire yet the way everyone else has been.  There may have been some NH-only ads, but he hasn't been enough of a threat yet to draw the attention.  Now may be his turn, let's see how he fares once the guns turn on him.

'He's a liberal who expanded medicaid' is the first line of attack. I don't know what else he's done to transgress against the conservative religion.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't get the claim that Rubio is a Tea Party type conservative.  He had been in front pushing amnesty (and has been catching grief for it).

[Razgovory]

I don't get the claim that Rubio is a Tea Party type conservative.  He had been in front pushing amnesty (and has been catching grief for it).

Timing?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Rubio is way more conservative than a typical establishment Republican, like Romney, Kasich, Bush etc. I believe based on voting record the only Senator more conservative than him is Cruz, and while Rubio was a moderate on immigration he's largely backed away from that as much as is practical in the primary.

I will add though that the tax plan being put forth by even all of the establishment lane Republicans this year is frankly extremely conservative, it's weird that in a country that generally gets more liberal on most issues over time one party is actually markedly more conservative on frankly every issue in 2016 versus where Republicans were ideologically in say, 2000.

[DGuller]

I will add though that the tax plan being put forth by even all of the establishment lane Republicans this year is frankly extremely conservative, it's weird that in a country that generally gets more liberal on most issues over time one party is actually markedly more conservative on frankly every issue in 2016 versus where Republicans were ideologically in say, 2000.

Maybe this is exactly why.  The fact that liberal ideology is winning out is causing conservatives to turn reactionary.

[Berkut]

I will add though that the tax plan being put forth by even all of the establishment lane Republicans this year is frankly extremely conservative, it's weird that in a country that generally gets more liberal on most issues over time one party is actually markedly more conservative on frankly every issue in 2016 versus where Republicans were ideologically in say, 2000.

Maybe this is exactly why.  The fact that liberal ideology is winning out is causing conservatives to turn reactionary.

I think that is exactly right, on a whole host of issues, especially social ones.

[Razgovory]

You listen to Rubio talk and you'd think we are in the midst of a depression.  I think the echo chamber effect is becoming terminal.  We gone from those guys disagree with us, to those guys are traitors, to those guys have already devastated America and are actively killing your fellow Americans.  Cruz runs as "someone who won't negotiate with the Democrats".  They view Obama as some comic-book villain who is killing Americans and destroying everything we love simply because he's evil and that's what evil people do.