2016 elections - because it's never too early

[garbon]

If the Republicans get a baby senator in office, sure. Like for like, right?

No "ifs".  Let's see what even the greatest leader the GOP can produce can accomplish with a Congress that is only interested in seeing the President fail.

But then that's not a fair comparison.

Oh?  Seems fair.  Why should the hurdle be lowered for the "non-baby-faced" President?

Baby -faced? I wasn't saying Obama looked young.

No, I meant the other way. An established Republican will do better, particularly as Dems aren't often so...committed to taking down a president.

[garbon]

My leftwing Obama-supporting co-worker has completely soured on Hillary.  To the point where he told me yesterday that he'd vote for Rand Paul over Hil if they faced each other in the general election.  Almost sounds like a trap, though

A result of Hillary's badmouthing of his Syria policy.  I called it. 

Congrats on a data point of 1 random person Der knows?

[Razgovory]

Baby -faced? I wasn't saying Obama looked young.

No, I meant the other way. An established Republican will do better, particularly as Dems aren't often so...committed to taking down a president.

My impression is that you meant him as inexperienced.  Let's put this theoretical Republican wunderkind in the same situation as Obama is in.  The primary concern of the Congress is to see him fail  They have stated as much.  Block every bill, block every appointment hold hearing after hearing. Attack the President no matter what happens.  Attack for doing things that you actually pushed for. Fanatical opposition.  If the Republican can get shit done, then it proves Obama really was an incompetent.  If the Republican can't get shit done, well then perhaps it proves something else.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah but the thing is (even if one dislikes Hillary), I don't honestly see how someone could still be an Obama supporter.

[DGuller]

At the end of the day, the blame goes back to the people.  If such a large portion of American public wasn't derspiess-level deranged or even worse, the Congress wouldn't have been able to get away with such total act of sabotage.  They've been able to get away with it precisely because a large chunk of people wanted the president sabotaged.

[Sheilbh]

He may have been sabotaged, but aside from further deepening the partisan hatreds what's the actual effect been?

America's got a robust looking recovery, universal healthcare policy, is heading into a surplus and is, for the most part, disentangled from her ground wars in the Mid East. That may be sabotage, and it may be mediocrity. But looking back to 2008 or 2010 or even 2012 I think most Americans would take that.

[DGuller]

He may have been sabotaged, but aside from further deepening the partisan hatreds what's the actual effect been?

America's got a robust looking recovery, universal healthcare policy, is heading into a surplus and is, for the most part, disentangled from her ground wars in the Mid East. That may be sabotage, and it may be mediocrity. But looking back to 2008 or 2010 or even 2012 I think most Americans would take that.

It's not obvious yet whether Obamacare is a step forward or a step back.  It's going to need a lot of tweaking going forward, and I think it's safe to say that Republicans would be very happy to see it fail, regardless of the cost.

[MadImmortalMan]

At the end of the day, the blame goes back to the people.  If such a large portion of American public wasn't derspiess-level deranged or even worse, the Congress wouldn't have been able to get away with such total act of sabotage.  They've been able to get away with it precisely because a large chunk of people wanted the president sabotaged.

Well that's never going to change.

[Razgovory]

He may have been sabotaged, but aside from further deepening the partisan hatreds what's the actual effect been?

America's got a robust looking recovery, universal healthcare policy, is heading into a surplus and is, for the most part, disentangled from her ground wars in the Mid East. That may be sabotage, and it may be mediocrity. But looking back to 2008 or 2010 or even 2012 I think most Americans would take that.

Universal health care is very weak, and may be overturned.  Federal positions have been vacant for years creating a backlog in courts and federal government agencies that can't issue decisions. This has partially been alieved by recess appointments how ever the legality of this has been called into question.

[CountDeMoney]

No, I meant the other way. An established Republican will do better, particularly as Dems aren't often so...committed to taking down a president.

That's probably because, unlike Republicans, Democrats don't possess a visceral sense of entitlement to the White House that goes back to '68.

Alas, there are no more real "established" Republicans, particularly on the state executive level.

Christie?  Bridgegate + New Jersey economy + nasty personality in general that gets real old real fast = new record lows in approval ratings, would not play well in the early evangelical GOP primary system.
Perry? Indicted.  Even if it's questionable, indicted is still indicted.  And saying your legal bills should be taxpayer funded would probably irk even the biggest Texan asshole.
Kid from Deliverance Walker?  Only a matter of time before his indictment comes.  A friendly Fed on the bench can only do so much.
The other Bush?  Bush lite?  Jeb's already hung himself by walking back on immigration reform.  Walking back on shit never helped Poppy, either.
Santorum?  Will win the derfetus/misogyny vote, but that will only get you to Super Tuesday.

Only thing left is Ryan, and his social conscience is as morally vapid as Yi's.  When nuns have to get on your ass over your budget, you know you've got PR issues.  Wait till he gets on Pope Francis' radar.

All you're going to get is more newbs like Cruz, Rubio, and Paul.  All ideologues, no substance, no experience.


Obama's been a flop.  Don't need more flops from people that don't know how to run a government.  SAVE US JIM WEBB

[DGuller]

At the end of the day, the blame goes back to the people.  If such a large portion of American public wasn't derspiess-level deranged or even worse, the Congress wouldn't have been able to get away with such total act of sabotage.  They've been able to get away with it precisely because a large chunk of people wanted the president sabotaged.

Well that's never going to change.

It did change relatively recently, for the worse.  Partisanship wasn't always so atrociously bad and destructive.  Propaganda and echo chambers have brainwashed the majority of Republicans to a level that's only a notch below where Russians are right now (but at least Russians have the excuse of state media monopoly).

[Razgovory]

At the end of the day, the blame goes back to the people.  If such a large portion of American public wasn't derspiess-level deranged or even worse, the Congress wouldn't have been able to get away with such total act of sabotage.  They've been able to get away with it precisely because a large chunk of people wanted the president sabotaged.

Well that's never going to change.

It did change relatively recently, for the worse.  Partisanship wasn't always so atrociously bad and destructive.  Propaganda and echo chambers have brainwashed the majority of Republicans to a level that's only a notch below where Russians are right now (but at least Russians have the excuse of state media monopoly).

The way the GOP has gotten it's voters to only listen to them and ignore any other source of information is impressive.  I don't think that even most dictators can get people to self-censor information that presents difficulty to the leadership like that.

[Berkut]

If the Republicans get a baby senator in office, sure. Like for like, right?

No "ifs".  Let's see what even the greatest leader the GOP can produce can accomplish with a Congress that is only interested in seeing the President fail.

But then that's not a fair comparison.

So you think the Republican stance has been based on their objection to Obama's experience?

That is just laughable as excuses go.

[DGuller]

The way the GOP has gotten it's voters to only listen to them and ignore any other source of information is impressive.  I don't think that even most dictators can get people to self-censor information that presents difficulty to the leadership like that.

I prefer to be scared rather than impressed.  This shows that access to information is not a bulletproof defense against brainwashing.  What Republicans haven't managed to improve upon is keeping control of the sentiment, and preventing the tail from wagging the dog, where the brainwashed purge the many of the original brainwashers.  That only deepens the cycle of distorting reality.

[The Minsky Moment]

Needs more sanctimony.

I do hope you are even handed when the next Republican president won't be able to appoint federal judges because of a vindictive congress.

If they're far right nominees, I will be.

But Obama hasn't nominated any far right judges.