2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Berkut]

Why should the government want to introduce competition among the schools that it funds?

To make them better.

Yeah, I am not buying that.

There is an implication there that is taken on faith, and that is that the "problem" in poor schools is a lack of desire to get better - that they just think that since they can be shitty, they will be shitty - why not? It's not like the students can go anywhere else.

That might be the case in some cases, but I don't think it at all explains by and large why some schools are very bad, and others are very good. For example, there are plenty of excellent schools in areas that do not have this charter school competition. How did they become so good without the necessary competition, if it is competition that is going to improve the poor schools?

Public education is not a for profit industry, and trying to apply for profit principles of competition to them in the faith that "competition == improvement" is not supported by reason or the evidence.

[garbon]

Why should the government want to introduce competition among the schools that it funds?

To make them better.

Yeah, I am not buying that.

There is an implication there that is taken on faith, and that is that the "problem" in poor schools is a lack of desire to get better - that they just think that since they can be shitty, they will be shitty - why not? It's not like the students can go anywhere else.

That might be the case in some cases, but I don't think it at all explains by and large why some schools are very bad, and others are very good. For example, there are plenty of excellent schools in areas that do not have this charter school competition. How did they become so good without the necessary competition, if it is competition that is going to improve the poor schools?

Public education is not a for profit industry, and trying to apply for profit principles of competition to them in the faith that "competition == improvement" is not supported by reason or the evidence.

[Berkut]

Why should the government want to introduce competition among the schools that it funds?

To make them better.

How dare you suggest competition made anyone better?

I thought we were talking about schools? Aren't you a lawyer?

A school is not a person, so why are you referring to them as "anyone"?

And the question under review is not whether competition can make some organization better in any circumstance, it is whether it WILL make organizations better in all circumstances.

You exhibit incredibly lazy thinking. Stop spending so much time in the alt right world where nobody expects rigor in thought. It is making you stupid (er).

[The Minsky Moment]

Why should the government want to introduce competition among the schools that it funds?

To make them better.

How dare you suggest competition made anyone better?

Good point. 
We should disband the US military, national guard and police forces.  Replace them with private militias for hire.  What could go wrong?

[Oexmelin]

You forgot tying pay to performance.

[Syt]

You forgot tying pay to performance.

Obviously. Soldiers who are not involved in combat operations should not get any pay at all. Police who don't meet a certain quota of arrests will not get full pay etc.

[The Minsky Moment]

You forgot tying pay to performance.

Once you privatize enough that takes care of itself.  Prima Noctae and all that.

[Admiral Yi]

And the question under review is not whether competition can make some organization better in any circumstance, it is whether it WILL make organizations better in all circumstances.

I as a consumer am indifferent to whether competition has caused Dairy Queen to improve their burger (which it has not).  I care whether there are superior options to Dairy Queen.  That is the logic of charter schools.

[Admiral Yi]

Good point. 
We should disband the US military, national guard and police forces.  Replace them with private militias for hire.  What could go wrong?

They would all be underconsumed because of their public good/positive externality aspect.

[garbon]

And the question under review is not whether competition can make some organization better in any circumstance, it is whether it WILL make organizations better in all circumstances.

I as a consumer am indifferent to whether competition has caused Dairy Queen to improve their burger (which it has not).  I care whether there are superior options to Dairy Queen.  That is the logic of charter schools.

Surely but then you are just feeding elitism. Those with cash will often find it easy to get better placement in said public schools while money the other schools need is diverted away.

[celedhring]

"Competition" ends up creating a system where the schools that can't afford losing funding - the unsuccessful ones - lose it in favor of the ones that don't need the extra money - the already successful.

As Berkut pointed out, education just isn't the kind of area where you want to apply free market logic as some kind of ideal form of oversight. The point of an education system is to give a sufficient baseline of education to all the population, no pat ourselves in the back because we have created a bunch of great schools that will only serve a small subset of the population.

[celedhring]

Anyhow, The Apprentice: DC is back after a few ads!

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  4h4 hours ago
I am seriously considering Dr. Ben Carson as the head of HUD. I've gotten to know him well--he's a greatly talented person who loves people!

[Barrister]

Anyhow, The Apprentice: DC is back after a few ads!

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  4h4 hours ago
I am seriously considering Dr. Ben Carson as the head of HUD. I've gotten to know him well--he's a greatly talented person who loves people!

Didn't Ben Carson remove himself from consideration for a Cabinet position because, he had no experience in government and wasn't qualified?

[Zanza]

Anyhow, The Apprentice: DC is back after a few ads!

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  4h4 hours ago
I am seriously considering Dr. Ben Carson as the head of HUD. I've gotten to know him well--he's a greatly talented person who loves people!

He could build pyramids to store grain as HUD secretary. 

[Admiral Yi]

"Competition" ends up creating a system where the schools that can't afford losing funding - the unsuccessful ones - lose it in favor of the ones that don't need the extra money - the already successful.

As Berkut pointed out, education just isn't the kind of area where you want to apply free market logic as some kind of ideal form of oversight. The point of an education system is to give a sufficient baseline of education to all the population, no pat ourselves in the back because we have created a bunch of great schools that will only serve a small subset of the population.

This raises what IMO is the real issue with charter schools: separating the ambitious kids from the delinquent types.  Let's assume for the sake of argument that well-behaved kids do better when surrounded only by other well-behaved kids, and let's also assume that the delinquents do worse.  Is it our goal then to raise the performance of the delinquents, and are we willing to sacrifice the prospects of the well-behaved kids to accomplish this goal?  I think this should not be our goal.