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2016 elections - because it's never too early

Started by merithyn, May 09, 2013, 07:37:45 AM

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Berkut

Quotethe president's actions and non-actions are much more of a function of his party than they are of his personal qualities and convictions

I don't think that is true at all - much more true for the legislative branch than the executive. The President generally has vastly more freedom to operate as he sees fit than almost any other elected official.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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DGuller

Quote from: Berkut on August 18, 2015, 08:58:56 PM
Quotethe president's actions and non-actions are much more of a function of his party than they are of his personal qualities and convictions

I don't think that is true at all - much more true for the legislative branch than the executive. The President generally has vastly more freedom to operate as he sees fit than almost any other elected official.
The president is not an absolute dictator.  Apart from constitutional limits, he also has to contend with political capital, both from his party allies and his voters.  He may have capital to buck the party sometimes to some limited extent, on a few battles of his picking, but he can't ignore it wholesale.

Berkut

There might be something in between "absolute dictator" and the president being largely a puppet of the party, as you claim.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Admiral Yi

Your description doesn't fit Bubba at all, and for that matter Wubya prior to 9/11.

DGuller

Quote from: Berkut on August 18, 2015, 09:35:03 PM
There might be something in between "absolute dictator" and the president being largely a puppet of the party, as you claim.
I never said anything about being a puppet, nor did I make any implications to such an effect.  This is a very simplistic simplification of what I said.  I was talking about the realities of maintaining real, not nominal, power, when you're part of a big political coalition (which is what in American system parties are).  Politics is the art of what is possible, and even absolute dictators can't afford to discount the wishes of their political base on a more than selective basis.  That doesn't make them puppets, that just makes them subject to constraints.

But ignoring all that, there is just too much risk in hoping for the best.  I don't want any more Alitos on the bench, the current Supreme Court bench has set us back as a country far enough as it is.  And we can't vote them out after four years.

derspiess

Alito rules. The more Jim Rockford lookalikes, the better.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Berkut

DG, you make a really good point about the SC, actually. That is the one thing that can't be fixed.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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derspiess

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 18, 2015, 10:31:00 PM
Bit of a stretch there.

Damn, I was thinking of Scalia.  The other Italian dude.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

Hillary makes another shitty joke:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/251413-clinton-pulls-plug-on-testy-presser-over-server-questions

QuoteAsked if the server, which has been turned over to the Department of Justice, had been wiped clean, Clinton initially shrugged and later joked: "Like with a cloth or something?"

"I don't know how it works digitally at all," she added.

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

Hillary just seems to attract these kinds of things and can never seem to shake them off. If she gets elected her entire Presidency would probably get mired in some minor controversy we will have to obsess about for four years. That sounds fun.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

alfred russel

Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2015, 09:14:45 AM
Hillary just seems to attract these kinds of things and can never seem to shake them off. If she gets elected her entire Presidency would probably get mired in some minor controversy we will have to obsess about for four years. That sounds fun.

Sounds a lot like the 90s.  :P
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: DGuller on August 18, 2015, 07:48:28 PM
Kasich, from what limited stuff I've seen of him so far, looks like a very reasonable human being and a practical pragmatic politician.

Back in the day, Kasich was Newt's chief dynamite thrower.   The furthest thing from reasonable.

Perhaps he's mellowed, or perhaps the GOD has gone so hysterical that he now seems moderate in comparison.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

DGuller

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 19, 2015, 10:59:00 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 18, 2015, 07:48:28 PM
Kasich, from what limited stuff I've seen of him so far, looks like a very reasonable human being and a practical pragmatic politician.

Back in the day, Kasich was Newt's chief dynamite thrower.   The furthest thing from reasonable.

Perhaps he's mellowed, or perhaps the GOD has gone so hysterical that he now seems moderate in comparison.
Could be both things, and could also be that I'm really not that informed about him.  Huckabee also seems like a mostly reasonable person for a while, until you get to know him more and realize that he's the most despicable politician on a stage full of pretty despicable politicians.

derspiess

Oh I'm sure you guys will find plenty of objectionable details on Kasich should he become a likely nominee.  I have no idea what, but you'll find something to magnify and complain about. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall