Israel Says It Has Proof That Syria Has Used Chemical Weapons

[Sheilbh]

Not necessarily. That is precisely what we managed to prevent in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There wasn't genocide in Iraq but there was a lot of ethnic cleansing while we were there.

And I oppose arming the rebels. I can't think of a reason good enough to justify invading Syria

[Razgovory]

Not necessarily. That is precisely what we managed to prevent in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There wasn't genocide in Iraq but there was a lot of ethnic cleansing while we were there.

And I oppose arming the rebels. I can't think of a reason good enough to justify invading Syria

I'd trade the lives of the 4,000 odd Americans for what ever we did in Iraq anytime.

[jimmy olsen]

This is a civil war, which are almost always worse than any other kind of war and that's awful.

Once again America stands superior to the rest of the world :smugface:

[The Minsky Moment]

I've never been sold on the 'secular liberal rebels'. Even if there were any they'd all be shouting Salafi slogans because the people with money are the Saudis and Qataris.

There's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Of course if we don't support and leave the field entirely to the Salafi powers, the rebels will tilt in that direction.  That's not an argument for staying out.  That's an argument for intervening big if we actually care about helping shape opinion.

[derspiess]

Can opinion be shaped much either way, though?

[Viking]

Can opinion be shaped much either way, though?

Yes, this worked for the fascists and communists in spain. It worked for the kurds in iraq as well.

The very act of making somebody dependent on us will shape their opinion.

[Sheilbh]

Of course if we don't support and leave the field entirely to the Salafi powers, the rebels will tilt in that direction.  That's not an argument for staying out.  That's an argument for intervening big if we actually care about helping shape opinion.

It's not an argument for staying out, I'm just dubious about the idea that this started as a 'secular liberal' uprising and they got killed first. If there were ever any significant 'secular liberal' elements within the rebels I imagine they've been radicalised by conflict and by the need to get Saudi and Qatari arms.

[Sheilbh]

This is a civil war, which are almost always worse than any other kind of war and that's awful.

Once again America stands superior to the rest of the world :smugface:

[Admiral Yi]

Yes, this worked for the fascists and communists in spain. It worked for the kurds in iraq as well.

The very act of making somebody dependent on us will shape their opinion.

It worked to a very limited degree for the communists because Republican officers quickly learned they wouldn't get promoted or receive supplies for their units if they didn't join the party.  The West would not have the same levers in Syria.

[Viking]

Yes, this worked for the fascists and communists in spain. It worked for the kurds in iraq as well.

The very act of making somebody dependent on us will shape their opinion.

It worked to a very limited degree for the communists because Republican officers quickly learned they wouldn't get promoted or receive supplies for their units if they didn't join the party.  The West would not have the same levers in Syria.

Of course we could. We would just have to be willing to stop the supply of arms if they don't behave. If anything we would prevent the process going the wrong way in favour of the salafists.

[Admiral Yi]

Of course we could. We would just have to be willing to stop the supply of arms if they don't behave. If anything we would prevent the process going the wrong way in favour of the salafists.

And they would stroke their beards, shout Allahu ackbar, and laugh in our faces while brandishing their Saudi supplied weapons.

[Viking]

Of course we could. We would just have to be willing to stop the supply of arms if they don't behave. If anything we would prevent the process going the wrong way in favour of the salafists.

And they would stroke their beards, shout Allahu ackbar, and laugh in our faces while brandishing their Saudi supplied weapons.

Our weapons are cooler, deadlier, bigger and require a regular supply of parts and maintenance.

Plus, if anything we can run drones for information and hellfires.

[Sheilbh]

Of course we could. We would just have to be willing to stop the supply of arms if they don't behave. If anything we would prevent the process going the wrong way in favour of the salafists.

Every group in Syria is committing war crimes on a daily basis. Our guys would just stop?

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm just dubious about the idea that this started as a 'secular liberal' uprising and they got killed first. If there were ever any significant 'secular liberal' elements within the rebels I imagine they've been radicalised by conflict and by the need to get Saudi and Qatari arms.

There's a decent amount of space between "secular liberal" and "radical salafi"
Where one falls within that space matters.

[CountDeMoney]

I've never been sold on the 'secular liberal rebels'. Even if there were any they'd all be shouting Salafi slogans because the people with money are the Saudis and Qataris.

There's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Of course if we don't support and leave the field entirely to the Salafi powers, the rebels will tilt in that direction.  That's not an argument for staying out.  That's an argument for intervening big if we actually care about helping shape opinion.

We should just go in and fire all the Ba'athists.  That'll work.