The liberal arts

[mongers]

63k is about right for a network engineer type I'd say.

Even for a guy straight out of school with no experience?

Yes.

It helps they can actually do shit, unlike a lot of graduates past (ie me et al) and present. 

[Maximus]

63k is about right for a network engineer type I'd say.

Even for a guy straight out of school with no experience?

Yes.

UIUC lists the average starting salary for a new BS in CS at $72k. It helps that the bulk of these jobs are in high cost-of-living places like Silicon Valley

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

UIUC lists the average starting salary for a new BS in CS at $72k. It helps that the bulk of these jobs are in high cost-of-living places like Silicon Valley

Even around here they should pull $61k - $63k, unless they are schlubs who barely graduated.

[Sheilbh]

And not only that - reducing education solely to its utility in one's job is also not the right way to think about education.

I could see it working in the USSR.

I used to believe that higher minimum wage leads to higher unemployment, since it kinda sounds like basic economics, but my impression is that economic studies don't really bear that out.  It could be that there is a non-basic second-order effect that largely counteracts the obvious conclusion.

I think it depends. In the UK we introduced a minimum wage in the late 90s which the Tories warned would be a threat to employment, that didn't turn out to be true. It's subsequently increased at a low rate every year since.

Here research was done on raising the minimum wage to the 'living wage' level that some firms pay in London and the predicted impact was pretty negligible - but higher for the young unskilled, though we already have a lower minimum wage for people under 18 and 18-21 so that could help mitigate that.

Also I think the major minimum wage sectors - at least I'd guess - are actually ones were international competitiveness matters less: cleaners, maintenance, service staff in hotels. I think the minimum wage would have more impact if it were still the case that we had lots of entry-level factory jobs that were paying that sort of wage.

Personally I'd love to see the minimum wage substantially increased and the benefits that the government give to low-income workers, through tax credits, cut. Ideally give employers a payroll tax cut or something with the money. I think in this country one of the problems of the last Labour government was that we sort of nationalised low-paid employees and I think it's wrong for a country to need to subsidise low-paid work to that extent and make it part of the welfare state. Work should be enough.

Obviously anything like this needs to be done gradually, but I don't think a minimum wage increase necessarily needs to kill jobs.

Norway has the oil.

And most of Scandinavia, as a percentage, has as many 'foreign born' population as the US. And they're not Mexican. And Danish is tougher to learn than English.

I think it's more likely that the wealthy simply leave. They get that low gini through attrition.

I don't think that's it. It's certainly not my experience of Scandinavia or Scandinavians and I'm sure someone would've written about it. I think the level of social trust is very high which is key for wealthy and even middle class Scandis (or Dutch for that matter) supporting this sort of system.

[MadImmortalMan]

I don't think that's it. It's certainly not my experience of Scandinavia or Scandinavians and I'm sure someone would've written about it. I think the level of social trust is very high which is key for wealthy and even middle class Scandis (or Dutch for that matter) supporting this sort of system.

Any idea why there are so few big international companies from there? Is it just a function of a low population or is there another reason? I think one of the things you see in places with a lot of wealthy people is that there are a lot of huge companies based there. Everybody knows Ikea and Volvo, but it sure seems Scandinavians are underrepresented on that level.

[garbon]

Well America is the best so hardly fair to compare.

[The Brain]

I don't know what the big companies per capita looks like for Sweden.

It's easy to forget Securitas (270k employees) when discussing big Swedish companies.

[CountDeMoney]

It's easy to forget Securitas (270k employees) when discussing big Swedish companies.

No kidding?  Didn't know that.

[Ed Anger]

Saab group's aerospace and military stuff is fairly large.

[Sheilbh]

Any idea why there are so few big international companies from there? Is it just a function of a low population or is there another reason? I think one of the things you see in places with a lot of wealthy people is that there are a lot of huge companies based there. Everybody knows Ikea and Volvo, but it sure seems Scandinavians are underrepresented on that level.

They seem to hit above their weight if anything: Ikea, Volvo, Ericsson, Skanska, H&M, Nordea, Sandvik, DNB, Det Norske Veritas and so on. There's probably even more when you get into oil and other energy companies. They're all in pretty diverse sectors too. When I was working I was in a consultancy firm that advised companies with expats and international assignments. We had someone who just dealt with our Scandinavian clients.

[Jacob]

Any idea why there are so few big international companies from there? Is it just a function of a low population or is there another reason? I think one of the things you see in places with a lot of wealthy people is that there are a lot of huge companies based there. Everybody knows Ikea and Volvo, but it sure seems Scandinavians are underrepresented on that level.

I don't know how you rate "few" international companies. Big Danish companies include:

• the A.P Møller-Mærsk group (the largest container shipping and supply ship operating company in the world, amongst other concerns)
• Arla Foods (7th largest dairy company in the world; is Danish-Swedish)
• Lego
• Carlsberg (4th largest brewery group in the world)
• Vestas (largest manufacturer of wind turbines in the world)
• ISS (facilities company with about $1B annual revenue)
• Grundfos (largest manufacturer of pumps)
• Bang & Olufsen
• Novo Nordisk (pharmaceutical company with $10B+ annual revenue)

I'm pretty sure Sweden is similar.

How many big companies would you expect from a country of less than 6 million?

[The Brain]

One problem that is often pointed out in Sweden is the fact that all our big companies are old. For whatever reason new companies do not seem to grow huge.

[Zanza]

One problem that is often pointed out in Sweden is the fact that all our big companies are old. For whatever reason new companies do not seem to grow huge.

Out of the 30 blue chip companies that make up Germany's DAX30 index, more than half were founded in the 19th century. The rest is often spin-offs from one of the others or former state monopolies.

[MadImmortalMan]

There are so many barriers now, plus the big old ones own the government and keep the little guys from competing with them effectively.

[Neil]

How many big companies would you expect from a country of less than 6 million?

That's about what I would expect.  A variety of mid-sized specialist corps.  Then again, the true megacorp is a pretty rare beast these days.  It's a sad, sad world we live in.