Thatcher's Politicial Legacy.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I vaguely recall pieces in the media shortly after she became PM for the first time; there was some speculation that with a woman in charge that government might become more caring, more family-friendly and whatnot.........heigh-ho 

She was an outsider in British politics, I'm still stunned that she became leader of the Tory party, her personality must have been truly formidable to achieve that.

[Martinus]

About respecting public figures when they pass away: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

...the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

That sounds very reasonable to me.  The problem isn't with people criticizing the deceased, but with crowing about their death.  It can be tough, depending on the figure, to avoid crossing that line.

But it can also be very easy to accuse others of crossing that line.

[Martinus]

About respecting public figures when they pass away: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

...the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

There is a distinction between fighting "false history" and celebrating the death.

That's an interesting point. The problem is that you would need to adopt that attitude towards any death, no matter how vile the person - once you cross that line and make it acceptable for a member of a society to celebrate a death - any death, be it of Stalin, Hitler or Pol Pot - then someone who thinks Thatcher was as bad as Hitler (this may be a wrong opinion, but it is an opinion that is allowed in free society) is in his or her right to celebrate her death.

[crazy canuck]

About respecting public figures when they pass away: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

...the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

That sounds very reasonable to me.  The problem isn't with people criticizing the deceased, but with crowing about their death.  It can be tough, depending on the figure, to avoid crossing that line.

But it can also be very easy to accuse others of crossing that line.

Ok,

but one is a reasoned analysis and one is posting 

Surely you can see the difference?

[Jacob]

There is a distinction between fighting "false history" and celebrating the death.

True enough.

And I think we can agree that the reported street parties in Glasgow and Brixton is squarely in the "celebrating the death" category.

[crazy canuck]

That's an interesting point. The problem is that you would need to adopt that attitude towards any death, no matter how vile the person - once you cross that line and make it acceptable for a member of a society to celebrate a death - any death, be it of Stalin, Hitler or Pol Pot - then someone who thinks Thatcher was as bad as Hitler (this may be a wrong opinion, but it is an opinion that is allowed in free society) is in his or her right to celebrate her death.

If you need to bring in Hitler to make a point the best policy is simply to not hit the post button.

Did you seriously just equate Hitler with Thatcher? 

[Martinus]

That's an interesting point. The problem is that you would need to adopt that attitude towards any death, no matter how vile the person - once you cross that line and make it acceptable for a member of a society to celebrate a death - any death, be it of Stalin, Hitler or Pol Pot - then someone who thinks Thatcher was as bad as Hitler (this may be a wrong opinion, but it is an opinion that is allowed in free society) is in his or her right to celebrate her death.

If you need to bring in Hitler to make a point the best policy is simply to not hit the post button.

Did you seriously just equate Hitler with Thatcher?

No. Can you read? I said that someone might think she was as bad as Hitler. And if you say that you can celebrate death of some people, and not of others, then you are being a hypocrite - since everyone will be judged differently by different people.

[crazy canuck]

No. Can you read? I said that someone might think she was as bad as Hitler.

Marti you are most likely the only person on face of the earth who would think to make that comparison.  As I said, just dont hit the post button next time you think of adding the word Hitler to a post.

[Zanza]

Welcome to the internet. No matter how silly, someone has already thought of it before. 

[Jacob]

Welcome to the internet. No matter how silly, someone has already thought of it before. 

Is that Martinus in a Nazi uniform and wearing a wig?

[crazy canuck]

Welcome to the internet. No matter how silly, someone has already thought of it before. 

[fhdz]

Welcome to the internet. No matter how silly, someone has already thought of it before. 

Is that Martinus in a Nazi uniform and wearing a wig?

Some, after all, might find Martinus as bad as Hitler.

[Agelastus]

No. Can you read? I said that someone might think she was as bad as Hitler.

Marti you are most likely the only person on face of the earth who would think to make that comparison.  As I said, just dont hit the post button next time you think of adding the word Hitler to a post.

I think you'd be surprised; judging by some of the language used in Britain in the Eighties, anyway.

In fact, a google search using the term "Thatcher worse than Hitler" brings up as the first result a document that I really, really hope is a joke*...and not much further down we have various forum results with people saying she's "worse than Hitler".


*Which seems to consider free market reforms the equivalent of Pol Pot's killing fields etc.

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Oh, and here's one of the "best" comments under an MSN article...

this bitch was most evil since hitler she did to working classes what hitler did to jews with out the gas she destroyed our industry railways cars mines and building trade if the want to cut cost of funeral send body to scotland we will despose of her for free shes only been in hell few hours and already shut down 3 furneces

33 likes...30 dislikes...and I already thought the world was mad before today. 

[mongers]

No. Can you read? I said that someone might think she was as bad as Hitler.

Marti you are most likely the only person on face of the earth who would think to make that comparison.  As I said, just dont hit the post button next time you think of adding the word Hitler to a post.

I think you'd be surprised; judging by some of the language used in Britain in the Eighties, anyway.

In fact, a google search using the term "Thatcher worse than Hitler" brings up as the first result a document that I really, really hope is a joke*...and not much further down we have various forum results with people saying she's "worse than Hitler".


*Which seems to consider free market reforms the equivalent of Pol Pot's killing fields etc.

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---
----

Oh, and here's one of the "best" comments under an MSN article...

this bitch was most evil since hitler she did to working classes what hitler did to jews with out the gas she destroyed our industry railways cars mines and building trade if the want to cut cost of funeral send body to scotland we will despose of her for free shes only been in hell few hours and already shut down 3 furneces

33 likes...30 dislikes...and I already thought the world was mad before today. 

I think you found what you set out to find. 

Not sure it tells you anything meaningful about her political or social legacy. 

[Josephus]

Why is it that conservative politicians seem to be prone to dementia late in their lives?  Reagan, Thatcher, and Pinochet all were going mentally long before going physically.

Guilt.