Thatcher's Politicial Legacy.

[mongers]

What is it and how long will it endure ?

My own view is Thatcherism won hands down in this country and much of the political debate here is still if not framed, certainly informed by it.

The compassionate conservatism of Cameroon's party, beneath the veneer remains a thatcherite party.

To me 'New labour' was a cyprt-thatcherite movement, that over time became evidently a form of soft-thatcherism, Tony Blair being the son of thatcher she never had. 

As for the LibDems, were will they to go, now that the old Liberal party ethos has been dropped and the social democratic thread is dying out too ? 

[Viking]

Her most enduring legacy both in and out of britain is establishing that national prosperity is achieved with free market mechanisms, not socialist planning mechanisms. She effectively ended the debate over which produced more value. Today the debate is now about how much economic vigour we are willing to "spend" on social cohesion through redistribution. The idea that the government should own economic resources is gone, at worst the government regulates natural and common resources but does not own them.

[Martinus]

Her most enduring legacy both in and out of britain is establishing that national prosperity is achieved with free market mechanisms, not socialist planning mechanisms. She effectively ended the debate over which produced more value. Today the debate is now about how much economic vigour we are willing to "spend" on social cohesion through redistribution. The idea that the government should own economic resources is gone, at worst the government regulates natural and common resources but does not own them.

Each and every view proven wrong by the last 5 years or so.

[Gups]

I think her legacy, while very significant indeed, is a little overstated. For me, the major items are:

Breaking the unions - they remain broken and that's not going to change

Demolishing heavy industry in favour of services - no resurrection but everyone agrees that the economy is entirely out of balance. Howveer the City has become a huge exporter even if much maligned post-1989.

Holding the line of social conservatism - her legacy absolutely overturned. Instead of clause 28 we have the Tory party proposing gay marriage

Moneterism - nobody talks about the money supply anymore.

Selling council houses - huge success, nobody is going to change that policy

Health, education, law and order - no legacy of any note.

Foreign/defence - things move on too quickly to detect a legacy. She was cold war warrior.

Europe - she would be seen to be on the extreme Europhile wing of the Tory party now.

Privatisation: Hugely significant and an enduring and irreversible legacy

[Valmy]

Each and every view proven wrong by the last 5 years or so.

So...you think large scale government ownership of economic resources has been proven correct by the last 5 years?

The primary thing I think the last five years has proven is the disastrous combination of economic downturns coupled with large budget deficits.

[Viking]

Her most enduring legacy both in and out of britain is establishing that national prosperity is achieved with free market mechanisms, not socialist planning mechanisms. She effectively ended the debate over which produced more value. Today the debate is now about how much economic vigour we are willing to "spend" on social cohesion through redistribution. The idea that the government should own economic resources is gone, at worst the government regulates natural and common resources but does not own them.

Each and every view proven wrong by the last 5 years or so.

No. It does not follow from "capitalism not perfect" that "socialism is perfect". You'r falling for a false dichotomy here.

[Viking]

Each and every view proven wrong by the last 5 years or so.

So...you think large scale government ownership of economic resources has been proven correct by the last 5 years?

The primary thing I think the last five years has proven is the disastrous combination of economic downturns coupled with large budget deficits.

Even Adam Smith realized long ago that running perpetual deficits was bad and that cheap loans not supported by collateral were unsustainable.

[CountDeMoney]

Her political legacy?  She fixed a completely broken country, both domestically and internationally.

[Martinus]

Her most enduring legacy both in and out of britain is establishing that national prosperity is achieved with free market mechanisms, not socialist planning mechanisms. She effectively ended the debate over which produced more value. Today the debate is now about how much economic vigour we are willing to "spend" on social cohesion through redistribution. The idea that the government should own economic resources is gone, at worst the government regulates natural and common resources but does not own them.

Each and every view proven wrong by the last 5 years or so.

No. It does not follow from "capitalism not perfect" that "socialism is perfect". You'r falling for a false dichotomy here.

But her insistence on destroying "hard" industry, which got replaced by financial services centre in London as the primary source of Britain's GDP, is a big reason for the mess the Britain is in now.

Anyway, my true British friends are already celebrating on Facebook. It seems she is liked by people who either were kids when she ruled Britain or lived elsewhere.

[Martinus]

I think her legacy, while very significant indeed, is a little overstated. For me, the major items are:

Breaking the unions - they remain broken and that's not going to change

Demolishing heavy industry in favour of services - no resurrection but everyone agrees that the economy is entirely out of balance. Howveer the City has become a huge exporter even if much maligned post-1989.

Holding the line of social conservatism - her legacy absolutely overturned. Instead of clause 28 we have the Tory party proposing gay marriage

Moneterism - nobody talks about the money supply anymore.

Selling council houses - huge success, nobody is going to change that policy

Health, education, law and order - no legacy of any note.

Foreign/defence - things move on too quickly to detect a legacy. She was cold war warrior.

Europe - she would be seen to be on the extreme Europhile wing of the Tory party now.

Privatisation: Hugely significant and an enduring and irreversible legacy

Agreed with one caveat - on foreign affairs, at least, she (along with Reagan and John Paul II) is worshiped in Poland and credited with dismantling communism. Also, the (misguided) reason why many Poles believe that Tories and Republicans are our international friends.

[Martinus]

Each and every view proven wrong by the last 5 years or so.

So...you think large scale government ownership of economic resources has been proven correct by the last 5 years?

The primary thing I think the last five years has proven is the disastrous combination of economic downturns coupled with large budget deficits.

Explain to me why German economy has been doing so much better than the UK one over the last 5 years, then.

[Valmy]

But her insistence on destroying "hard" industry, which got replaced by financial services centre in London as the primary source of Britain's GDP, is a big reason for the mess the Britain is in now.

Anyway, my true British friends are already celebrating on Facebook. It seems she is liked by people who either were kids when she ruled Britain or lived elsewhere.

The British are delusional in this department which is why I make fun of them here all the time.  I don't think Thatcher was some great genius but they seem to dream that somehow the modern world would never have intruded on Britain if she had never lived.  She did nothing but preside over the end of systems that had long since ceased to be viable thanks to idiotic policies of the previous decades.  Do these idiots really think Britain would still be dominated by coal mines and heavy industry if she had never lived?  That somehow the clock only moved forward and the modern economy only exists because of Thatcher?  The detachement from reality is ridiculous.  "Hard" industry had ceased to be anything more than a joke in Britain, a really burdensome economy sucking joke, for sometime by the time she showed up.

She may have taken things a bit too far...but things would be only slightly different otherwise.  She is rather over-rated IMO both by her detractors and supporters.

[Grinning_Colossus]

The Germans seems to be doing pretty well with a large manufacturing sector. Why couldn't the UK?

[Valmy]

Explain to me why German economy has been doing so much better than the UK one over the last 5 years, then.

The German economy has consistently done better than the British economy for fifty years.

But this is sorta funny.  The German economy has hardly been booming.

[Gups]

I wouldn't confuse Tyr with teh Birtish public in general.

Maggie remains a divisive figure but just as many people lover her as hate her and the largest single group are thsoe who think she did some great things and some bad ones.

Things woudl have been very different without her or someone like her. The unions in particular (who had a huge amount of control over the country) could only have been broken by a Tory PM and few Tory politicians would have seen it out in the way she did. She got very lucky on a number of issues though - she coudl well have lost the 1983 election had it not been for teh Falklands and the money the country got from North Sea oil made the realignment of the economy and the huge sums of welfare paid out possible.