Would you consider your spouse getting fat a good reason for divorce?

[merithyn]

What she gave up on was the idea that she had to be thin to be beautiful.

You know, I know you're gonna ignore me again, and that's cool, but why is it that the world must change to find overweight people attractive?  I don't think anyone's ever said we should put them in camps. or suggesting they not be able to vote or legally work, or anything absurd like that.  And, Internet comments on generalities notwithstanding, no one, afaik, is communicating abuse directly at any person in any form they're likely to see or hear it.  (And fwiw, I've seen pictures of you, I think we all have, and we know you're not fat.  So it also involves no indirect personal attack.)

So, no is denying the right of fat people to exist.  I think the bottom line is that the majority don't think fat people are as attractive as thin people, including (hypocritically or not) other fat people.  I dunno what kind of change you want to see in people, short of "You know, it turns out I do prefer women who are heavy."  Which is, in my opinion, a bridge much too far.

My point wasn't that YOU should find her beautiful. Rather that she was starting to see herself as a beautiful person DESPITE her weight.

[garbon]

My point wasn't that YOU should find her beautiful. Rather that she was starting to see herself as a beautiful person DESPITE her weight.

Would you not have ill-will for the boyfriend/spouse who left her because he wasn't willing (or unable) to see her as a beautiful person despite her weight?

[garbon]

He just never knew what to do with the depression I was in, so he ran away rather than dealing with it.

Not to get personal - but how does someone deal with someone else's depression?

[merithyn]

He just never knew what to do with the depression I was in, so he ran away rather than dealing with it.

Not to get personal - but how does someone deal with someone else's depression?

Part of the depression stemmed from his working 50-60 hours a week while I stayed home with three active toddlers and an infant who needed special care. Instead of coming home and helping me, he just worked longer hours, coming home to sleep eight hours, and then going back to the office. The more depressed I got, the less he was home, which led to more depression for me. Which also, by the way, led to more weight gain for me. And thoughts of suicide, though I left him before I ever got to the point of really considering it as an option.

[merithyn]

My point wasn't that YOU should find her beautiful. Rather that she was starting to see herself as a beautiful person DESPITE her weight.

Would you not have ill-will for the boyfriend/spouse who left her because he wasn't willing (or unable) to see her as a beautiful person despite her weight?

Lots of negatives in there. I'm trying to parse this out.

I love my husband because I think that he is a beautiful person. His weight has nothing to do with that. As an individual, he's amazing.

If he ballooned to 400 pounds, my physical attraction for him would probably waver, but I would still find him to be a beautiful person. And if my husband stopped trying, I would do all that I could to help him figure out why he gave up, how to make it better, and what we, as a couple, could do to make our lives together stronger. But then, I take my marriage vows very seriously, and always have. Weight just isn't a make-or-break item for breaking my vows to me.

[Valmy]

Rather that she was starting to see herself as a beautiful person DESPITE her weight.

Well in my experience self-acceptance goes a long way in changing things in your life.  If you are all hung up on something and psychologically beating yourself up about it, it gets difficult to do something about it.  What you resist persists or something like that.  Like I used to be very ashamed of my career and while that was going on practically everything I did about it was doomed to failure,  I had to accept where I was before I could move forward.  So that part of the 'fat acceptance' thing I can get. 

What is a bit puzzling is then instead of doing the next thing, you drop all your BS setting your sights on what you want and what you are committed to and not have it all tied up in your self worth and self esteem and other nonsense, you simply declare you have already won.  It would have been like me just saying 'you know what?  I am just going to declare my career is great and ignore the things I really wanted to do'.  That doesn't seem to me to be acceptance but more like deluding yourself as a way of dealing with still insanely tying this stuff up to your self worth....but maybe not maybe the 'fat acceptance' people in their heart of hearts have decided that this is where they truly want to be.  But what the lady in the article was saying was rationalizations about how it wasn't really that bad, not exalting in the glory of her body which is what one would be doing if they really felt that this was great.

[garbon]

He just never knew what to do with the depression I was in, so he ran away rather than dealing with it.

Not to get personal - but how does someone deal with someone else's depression?

Part of the depression stemmed from his working 50-60 hours a week while I stayed home with three active toddlers and an infant who needed special care. Instead of coming home and helping me, he just worked longer hours, coming home to sleep eight hours, and then going back to the office. The more depressed I got, the less he was home, which led to more depression for me. Which also, by the way, led to more weight gain for me. And thoughts of suicide, though I left him before I ever got to the point of really considering it as an option.

Gotcha, thanks.

[garbon]

My point wasn't that YOU should find her beautiful. Rather that she was starting to see herself as a beautiful person DESPITE her weight.

Would you not have ill-will for the boyfriend/spouse who left her because he wasn't willing (or unable) to see her as a beautiful person despite her weight?

Lots of negatives in there. I'm trying to parse this out.

I love my husband because I think that he is a beautiful person. His weight has nothing to do with that. As an individual, he's amazing.

If he ballooned to 400 pounds, my physical attraction for him would probably waver, but I would still find him to be a beautiful person. And if my husband stopped trying, I would do all that I could to help him figure out why he gave up, how to make it better, and what we, as a couple, could do to make our lives together stronger. But then, I take my marriage vows very seriously, and always have. Weight just isn't a make-or-break item for breaking my vows to me.

Okay, but would you find it problematic if someone left their spouse (or boyfriend/girlfriend) because the spouse decided to see herself a beautiful person DESPITE her weight and that someone was unable to feel the same?

[garbon]

Rather that she was starting to see herself as a beautiful person DESPITE her weight.

Well in my experience self-acceptance goes a long way in changing things in your life.  If you are all hung up on something and psychologically beating yourself up about it, it gets difficult to do something about it.  What you resist persists or something like that.  Like I used to be very ashamed of my career and while that was going on practically everything I did about it was doomed to failure,  I had to accept where I was before I could move forward.  So that part of the 'fat acceptance' thing I can get. 

What is a bit puzzling is then instead of doing the next thing, you drop all your BS setting your sights on what you want and what you are committed to and not have it all tied up in your self worth and self esteem and other nonsense, you simply declare you have already won.  It would have been like me just saying 'you know what?  I am just going to declare my career is great and ignore the things I really wanted to do'.  That doesn't seem to me to be acceptance but more like deluding yourself as a way of dealing with still insanely tying this stuff up to your self worth....but maybe not maybe the 'fat acceptance' people in their heart of hearts have decided that this is where they truly want to be.  But what the lady in the article was saying was rationalizations about how it wasn't really that bad, not exalting in the glory of her body which is what one would be doing if they really felt that this was great.

Well put.

[Valmy]

Part of the depression stemmed from his working 50-60 hours a week while I stayed home with three active toddlers and an infant who needed special care. Instead of coming home and helping me, he just worked longer hours, coming home to sleep eight hours, and then going back to the office. The more depressed I got, the less he was home, which led to more depression for me. Which also, by the way, led to more weight gain for me. And thoughts of suicide, though I left him before I ever got to the point of really considering it as an option.

That does not really sound much like what jaba was dealing with at all.  You weren't lying in bed all day and refusing to do anything for years on end.

[merithyn]

Well in my experience self-acceptance goes a long way in changing things in your life.  If you are all hung up on something and psychologically beating yourself up about it, it gets difficult to do something about it.  What you resist persists or something like that.  Like I used to be very ashamed of my career and while that was going on practically everything I did about it was doomed to failure,  I had to accept where I was before I could move forward.  So that part of the 'fat acceptance' thing I can get. 

What is a bit puzzling is then instead of doing the next thing, you drop all your BS setting your sights on what you want and what you are committed to and not have it all tied up in your self worth and self esteem and other nonsense, you simply declare you have already won.  It would have been like me just saying 'you know what?  I am just going to declare my career is great and ignore the things I really wanted to do'.  That doesn't seem to me to be acceptance but more like deluding yourself as a way of dealing with still insanely tying this stuff up to your self worth....but maybe not maybe the 'fat acceptance' people in their heart of hearts have decided that this is where they truly want to be.  But what the lady in the article was saying was rationalizations about how it wasn't really that bad, not exalting in the glory of her body which is what one would be doing if they really felt that this was great.

Maybe this is step one for her. Given the pressure from society - and her husband - maybe she needs a little self-delusion to be able to get to that level of acceptance. Once there, she may decide to make other changes. I don't know; I'm not in her head.

I just know that there are an awful lot of my friends who believe that they are worthless because they are fat. They believe that they are ugly, useless, and complete failures. If they can find a way to love themselves as they are, there's a chance that they can later turn other things around, like their weight and their careers and their relationships. Honestly, the first step toward losing weight - for those who are really very overweight - isn't putting down the fork. Instead, it's being able to look at themselves in the mirror and seeing someone worth putting the fork down for.

[merithyn]

That does not really sound much like what jaba was dealing with at all.  You weren't lying in bed all day and refusing to do anything for years on end.

I would have been were it not for the kids. What stjaba described is exactly what I was. I even remember making all of the excuses in my head on why I couldn't go out and do anything. Were it not for the kids, I wouldn't have left the house for anything.

[garbon]

Maybe this is step one for her. Given the pressure from society - and her husband - maybe she needs a little self-delusion to be able to get to that level of acceptance. Once there, she may decide to make other changes. I don't know; I'm not in her head.

I just know that there are an awful lot of my friends who believe that they are worthless because they are fat. They believe that they are ugly, useless, and complete failures. If they can find a way to love themselves as they are, there's a chance that they can later turn other things around, like their weight and their careers and their relationships. Honestly, the first step toward losing weight - for those who are really very overweight - isn't putting down the fork. Instead, it's being able to look at themselves in the mirror and seeing someone worth putting the fork down for.

I said it before but I think you are putting things into her situation that she never said. That woman said that she is done trying to lose weight and is learning to live with her own fat body. Nothing in that suggests that it is step 1 of a process. After all, if that was the case that's probably something she could have talked over with her husband.  It seems odd, given that ample time has passed during their therapy seesions, that if that was her mindset - that she wouldn't have mentioned it in the article.

So, I hear what you're saying but I don't think it applies here.

[merithyn]

Okay, but would you find it problematic if someone left their spouse (or boyfriend/girlfriend) because the spouse decided to see herself a beautiful person DESPITE her weight and that someone was unable to feel the same?

I find it sad how quickly and easily people are willing to walk away from a committed relationship. I think that, for me, this isn't a good enough reason to walk. Do I understand it for someone else? I suppose I could, though I think that it's a poor reason to do so.

That being said, there were any number of people who thought my reasons for leaving my exhusband were poor, too, and ultimately, it's none of my business. I just think it's sad that people would use weight as a reason to leave a committed relationship. It's so inconsequential compared to all of the other variables in play between two people.

[Valmy]

Maybe this is step one for her. Given the pressure from society - and her husband - maybe she needs a little self-delusion to be able to get to that level of acceptance. Once there, she may decide to make other changes. I don't know; I'm not in her head.

How would reaching a state of delusion empower and enable her to make other changes?  I have yet to ever hear a self help program say 'the first step is delusion'.

I just know that there are an awful lot of my friends who believe that they are worthless because they are fat. They believe that they are ugly, useless, and complete failures. If they can find a way to love themselves as they are, there's a chance that they can later turn other things around, like their weight and their careers and their relationships. Honestly, the first step toward losing weight - for those who are really very overweight - isn't putting down the fork. Instead, it's being able to look at themselves in the mirror and seeing someone worth putting the fork down for.

Yep.  Being an adult is about not letting circumstances and people dictate your self worth.  It is really hard to function otherwise.