"American Sniper" Chris Kyle shot dead at shooting range

[Eddie Teach]

Anyways, it's good to see we turned another thread into a thread about me. 

Is that why you made 5 posts in a row? 

[Martinus]

Anyways, it's good to see we turned another thread into a thread about me. 

Is that why you made 5 posts in a row? 

That wasn't criticism.

[jimmy olsen]

On top of that, I think military people (especially non-officers) are scum.

This seems odd, one would think you would hold those with more authority and responsibilities to a higher moral standard.

That's not about a different standard. I don't know about the US, but here officers generally are trained differently and come from different backgrounds/motivations, than ordinary soldiers - by extension they have different attitudes about what they do and why they do it. They are also smart, know the risks and rewards and as such have a realistic view of the whole situation.

Shouldn't they then be judged more harshly then if you believe the military is acting immorally? They are the ones responsible for its actions. Furthermore, being more educated, they are doubtlessly more aware of the moral arguments against their profession.

Putting it simply an intelligent man who commits murder should be judged more harshly then a stupid man, because the intelligent man should better understand what he is doing is wrong.

[Martinus]

That's not the point I am making though.

I am not objecting to the potentially objective necessity of the military. I am objecting to the undeserved and misleading reputation military people have in the society.

Just as I think that defense attorneys are necessary, even if they get murderers and child rapists out of prison. However, I object when they try to pain themselves as some sort of selfless defenders of justice and freedom.

Based on the officers I have met, they have a much more healthy and professional-like attitude to being in the military and not one based on hero worship.

[Martinus]

I guess this is consistent with the line of thinking I have always displayed on many things.

We, as a society, engage in various arguably necessary but morally questionable practices. We engage in external wars which are not moral in the just war sense (we are not defending ourselves) yet are necessary to maintain our lifestyle. We kill animals even if we do not absolutely have to, because we like eating meat or wear fur. We punish people who commit most serious crimes with death penalty, because sometimes this is the only just and appropriate sentence.

That being said, while all of these actions are necessary, they are not something we should be proud of. And whenever we start to revel in them, worshipping or cheering on people who perform these functions, my stomach begins to churn.

This goes for hunters (and that is why I consider hunting to be the pastime of scumbags), this goes for considering soldiers to be heroes, this goes for staging public executions etc.

Yes, sometimes we have to do ugly things, but at least have some decendy about it to be ashamed.

[Razgovory]

I think we can all agree that you need to be more ashamed of yourself.

[grumbler]

We, as a society, engage in various arguably necessary but morally questionable practices. We engage in external wars which are not moral in the just war sense (we are not defending ourselves) yet are necessary to maintain our lifestyle. We kill animals even if we do not absolutely have to, because we like eating meat or wear fur. We punish people who commit most serious crimes with death penalty, because sometimes this is the only just and appropriate sentence.

We in the West do the same things.  We just understand them better than you non-Westerners, so we don't get our panties in a twist when something unfortunate happens.

I think that this is probably because we have the Enlightenment in our cultural background, and you do not.

[Grey Fox]

Yep, Marti is Christian.

[Faeelin]

I don't understand why people always get shocked or interact with Marti. He's an angry gay with a fair degree of self-loathing (probably because of his Polish background) which he hasn't fully come to terms with.  He's afraid to come out at the office, so constructs elaborate stories about his "friend," and takes out that shrillness by pretending to be a militant gay online.  It's sad, but not worth indulging.

[garbon]

Anyways, it's good to see we turned another thread into a thread about me. 

Is that why you made 5 posts in a row? 

Makes it convenient to scroll on by.

[Razgovory]

Yep, Marti is Christian.

[Admiral Yi]

I guess this is consistent with the line of thinking I have always displayed on many things.

We, as a society, engage in various arguably necessary but morally questionable practices. We engage in external wars which are not moral in the just war sense (we are not defending ourselves) yet are necessary to maintain our lifestyle. We kill animals even if we do not absolutely have to, because we like eating meat or wear fur. We punish people who commit most serious crimes with death penalty, because sometimes this is the only just and appropriate sentence.

That being said, while all of these actions are necessary, they are not something we should be proud of. And whenever we start to revel in them, worshipping or cheering on people who perform these functions, my stomach begins to churn.

This goes for hunters (and that is why I consider hunting to be the pastime of scumbags), this goes for considering soldiers to be heroes, this goes for staging public executions etc.

Yes, sometimes we have to do ugly things, but at least have some decendy about it to be ashamed.

This is not anywhere remotely close to cheering Kyle's death.

And he didn't have PTSD.  He was trying to help others who did.

[Grey Fox]

Yep, Marti is Christian.

[Neil]

Look guys, it's not like Martinus is capable of functioning in a modern society.  I really wouldn't sweat anything he says.  It's like Raz talking, only more stupid and provincial.

[Martinus]

I guess this is consistent with the line of thinking I have always displayed on many things.

We, as a society, engage in various arguably necessary but morally questionable practices. We engage in external wars which are not moral in the just war sense (we are not defending ourselves) yet are necessary to maintain our lifestyle. We kill animals even if we do not absolutely have to, because we like eating meat or wear fur. We punish people who commit most serious crimes with death penalty, because sometimes this is the only just and appropriate sentence.

That being said, while all of these actions are necessary, they are not something we should be proud of. And whenever we start to revel in them, worshipping or cheering on people who perform these functions, my stomach begins to churn.

This goes for hunters (and that is why I consider hunting to be the pastime of scumbags), this goes for considering soldiers to be heroes, this goes for staging public executions etc.

Yes, sometimes we have to do ugly things, but at least have some decendy about it to be ashamed.

This is not anywhere remotely close to cheering Kyle's death.

And he didn't have PTSD.  He was trying to help others who did.

It's difficult to express one's ambivalence when one has 10 seconds of free time to post - that's why cheering someone's death was an approximation.

Anyway, as I said before, I read an interview with that guy and thought he was a particular scumbag.