The meaning of "Christmas"

[Valmy]

My brother's weirdo ex-wife celebrated Hanukkah and decorated for it, even though she was a Christian fundie.  Her rationale was that Christianity was formed out of Judaism, so we should honor the old Jewish traditions as well.  Funny thing is that she never bothered to celebrate the other unique Jewish holidays and Hanukkah is a very minor one in Judaism (inspite of the "me too"-ism on the part of American Jews).

As her to celebrate Purim, too.

You do that by getting drunk and (if you are a woman) dressing up like a hott Persian concubine. 

Yeah.  If only every Jewish Holiday was like that.  Having to ritually despose of leaven seems like a PITA.

[Valmy]

The wikipedia page for Kwanzaa features a picture with several white people in it. So while it had its origins there...

They're self-hatin'.  Reverse-Uncle Toms.

I have to say after becoming familiar with Uncle Tom's Cabin I have no idea why this character gets slandered this way.

[merithyn]

I'm very close to throwing the BS flag on that one.  I grew up in the heart of the bible belt and have worked with some pretty religiously conservative people, and have always seen the secular traditions of Christmas dominate.  I'm getting the feeling you're actively differentiating yourself more than others are.

Again, saying that I celebrate Christmas means something to me. If I say that yes, I celebrate Christmas, then it means something to me beyond having a tree and giving gifts. I don't say it because I don't mean it.

I was wondering about that comment too Meri.  I've known plenty of Jesus freaks and the Jesus freakiest they get at Christmas is going to an extra service.

Around here, I deal with a lot of people who are activists on the whole "putting Christ back in Christmas!!!". They bitch about the company's holiday card saying "Seasons Greetings". The "holiday" party annoys them no end. To them, Christmas is about Christ, or at least they certainly make it seem so. I had to sit and listen to a diatribe from several co-workers at lunch last year bitch about how stores and schools are ruining the religiosity of the season.

To me, Christmas is about Christ. To my co-workers, it certainly seems that Christmas is about Christ. Why is my desire to adhere to that a concern?

We're just trying to get you to be honest about yourself, dear.  Do you still consider yourself hispanic, BTW?

Nice, derspeiss. Way to be a dick. I'd begun to think better of you, but you've brought me up straight on that one.

As to the question, yes, I do, culturally, consider myself to be hispanic. How you feel about that means absolutely nothing to me, so fuck right off.

[Martinus]

Kwaanza is totally irrelevant to discussions of social interaction and the public space because, as Neil pointed out, it's a segregationist holiday.  Nobody will ever wish me a happy Kwaanza and nobody will ever invite me to play Kwaanza reindeer games.  If it weren't for obligatory public school announcements and public television Kwaanza greetings, it would be relatively easy to forget the holiday even exists.

I can foresee a day when black folks have given up on their goofy seperatist holiday and it's still chugging along on school bulletin boards and PBS station breaks.

I don't think it was ever very popular.  Most African Americans are Christian, and as you and Neil point out it is a racist holiday.

The wikipedia page for Kwanzaa features a picture with several white people in it. So while it had its origins there...

It's also totally made up.

[merithyn]

It's also totally made up.

Every holiday and holiday tradition is totally made up.

[Martinus]

I celebrate Glitter Day.

[Martinus]

It's also totally made up.

Every holiday and holiday tradition is totally made up.

Yeah I know and I used this argument before. Still, it's one of these "fake it until you make it" things and Kwanza is still at the faking stage. Like scientology or sensitive men who do not want to have sex on the first date.

[garbon]

It's also totally made up.

Every holiday and holiday tradition is totally made up.

Indeed.

[garbon]

The wikipedia page for Kwanzaa features a picture with several white people in it. So while it had its origins there...

They're self-hatin'.  Reverse-Uncle Toms.

I have to say after becoming familiar with Uncle Tom's Cabin I have no idea why this character gets slandered this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom#Epithet

[merithyn]

I celebrate Glitter Day.

Good for you.

[Martinus]

I celebrate Glitter Day.

Good for you.

It's an actual holiday created three years ago. It falls on the second Saturday of January and is the gay response to every other group having its own winter holiday.

It's as real as Kwanzaa.

[merithyn]

It's an actual holiday created three years ago. It falls on the second Saturday of January and is the gay response to every other group having its own winter holiday.

It's as real as Kwanzaa.

Yes, it is. Which is as real as Christmas and Hanukkah.

[Valmy]

Yes, it is. Which is as real as Christmas and Hanukkah.

Which is as real as the United States of America.  Yet if we are talking about real human society something's "reality" is entirely based on how many other people agree that it exists.  I could declare my own nation of 'Dantonia' but until a certain critical mass of people agree it is a country it will not have the reality of The United States.

So in concrete physical terms you are absolutely right.  But in terms that actually practically relate to how we live in human society you are wrong.

[Admiral Yi]

Around here, I deal with a lot of people who are activists on the whole "putting Christ back in Christmas!!!". They bitch about the company's holiday card saying "Seasons Greetings". The "holiday" party annoys them no end. To them, Christmas is about Christ, or at least they certainly make it seem so. I had to sit and listen to a diatribe from several co-workers at lunch last year bitch about how stores and schools are ruining the religiosity of the season.

To me, Christmas is about Christ. To my co-workers, it certainly seems that Christmas is about Christ. Why is my desire to adhere to that a concern?

Then maybe you should only wish those few coworkers a Happy Yule.  The overwhelming majority of the country has no problem buying presents for a fat man in a red suit to deliver the night before Christmas and wishing each other merry Christmas.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

[CountDeMoney]

I could declare my own nation of 'Dantonia'

It would be cut off by Robespierristan.