The meaning of "Christmas"

[merithyn]

Just seems overly pedantic given that a great many people who celebrate Christmas aren't Christians.

The word means something to me spiritually, and so I am particular to hold to that meaning. I don't understand why this is an issue.

Mind you, in general, I don't say much of anything to anyone about any of this. This is not a conversation that I typically have with the general public. The conversation came up because my friend was appalled that I wasn't doing anything for Christmas. I mentioned that I don't, technically, celebrate Christmas, which is what led to this conversation, and then this thread.

If people ask me if I celebrate Christmas, I usually say something like, "Close enough," or "Not really, but I enjoy the season." Around where I live and work, celebrating Christmas means being Christian. I am not Christian, so around here, I choose to make that clear - but only when specifically asked. Otherwise, I usually just smile and say nothing. It saves me from the kind of belittling that Otto, BB, and derspeiss handed out.

[mongers]

I wonder if Viking will have to work on the 25th.

Yes, he'll be blood eagling a couple of Jehovah's witnesses.

[garbon]

Just seems overly pedantic given that a great many people who celebrate Christmas aren't Christians.

The word means something to me spiritually, and so I am particular to hold to that meaning. I don't understand why this is an issue.

Mind you, in general, I don't say much of anything to anyone about any of this. This is not a conversation that I typically have with the general public. The conversation came up because my friend was appalled that I wasn't doing anything for Christmas. I mentioned that I don't, technically, celebrate Christmas, which is what led to this conversation, and then this thread.

If people ask me if I celebrate Christmas, I usually say something like, "Close enough," or "Not really, but I enjoy the season." Around where I live and work, celebrating Christmas means being Christian. I am not Christian, so around here, I choose to make that clear - but only when specifically asked. Otherwise, I usually just smile and say nothing. It saves me from the kind of belittling that Otto, BB, and derspeiss handed out.

Fair enough. I guess I typically don't get asked if I'm a Christian so there's little need for me to differentiate.

[derspiess]

Because it does, however, I do not feel comfortable saying that I celebrate that particular holy day.

If you feel a need to berate that, feel free, but at least I've put more thought into it than, "But it's the season!!!!!!!11111"

Just seems overly pedantic given that a great many people who celebrate Christmas aren't Christians.

Don't use the p-word.  It sets her off 

[crazy canuck]

They also don't bring up punch lines like Kwanzaa or Yule or some other tradition that has about as much cultural relevance in the US as Boxing Day or Guy Fawkes Day.

Again with the cultural blinders.  Just because they are not in the numbers of your religiously concentrated belief system doesnt make it any less valid for them.

To paraphrase Valmy - only an ass would deny the ability of others to celebrate the season as they wish.

I didn't see Otto denying anyone the ability to celebrate Kwanzaa.

He just doesnt like them talking about it...

[merithyn]

Don't use the p-word.  It sets her off 

It has judgmental overtones that I dislike.

[Malthus]

My brother's weirdo ex-wife celebrated Hanukkah and decorated for it, even though she was a Christian fundie.  Her rationale was that Christianity was formed out of Judaism, so we should honor the old Jewish traditions as well.  Funny thing is that she never bothered to celebrate the other unique Jewish holidays and Hanukkah is a very minor one in Judaism (inspite of the "me too"-ism on the part of American Jews).

As her to celebrate Purim, too.

You do that by getting drunk and (if you are a woman) dressing up like a hott Persian concubine. 

[Admiral Yi]

Kwaanza is totally irrelevant to discussions of social interaction and the public space because, as Neil pointed out, it's a segregationist holiday.  Nobody will ever wish me a happy Kwaanza and nobody will ever invite me to play Kwaanza reindeer games.  If it weren't for obligatory public school announcements and public television Kwaanza greetings, it would be relatively easy to forget the holiday even exists.

I can foresee a day when black folks have given up on their goofy seperatist holiday and it's still chugging along on school bulletin boards and PBS station breaks.

[Malthus]

Yeah if you are going to celebrate Jew Holidays you need to celebrate Purim, that is the best one.

Dude, Passover seder

Purim. Getting drunk. Women dressed as Persian concubines.

Much better than just pigging out. 

[derspiess]

If people ask me if I celebrate Christmas, I usually say something like, "Close enough," or "Not really, but I enjoy the season." Around where I live and work, celebrating Christmas means being Christian. I am not Christian, so around here, I choose to make that clear - but only when specifically asked.

I'm very close to throwing the BS flag on that one.  I grew up in the heart of the bible belt and have worked with some pretty religiously conservative people, and have always seen the secular traditions of Christmas dominate.  I'm getting the feeling you're actively differentiating yourself more than others are.

Otherwise, I usually just smile and say nothing. It saves me from the kind of belittling that Otto, BB, and derspeiss handed out.

We're just trying to get you to be honest about yourself, dear.  Do you still consider yourself hispanic, BTW?

[derspiess]

My brother's weirdo ex-wife celebrated Hanukkah and decorated for it, even though she was a Christian fundie.  Her rationale was that Christianity was formed out of Judaism, so we should honor the old Jewish traditions as well.  Funny thing is that she never bothered to celebrate the other unique Jewish holidays and Hanukkah is a very minor one in Judaism (inspite of the "me too"-ism on the part of American Jews).

As her to celebrate Purim, too.

You do that by getting drunk and (if you are a woman) dressing up like a hott Persian concubine. 

I wanted to, but frankly I avoided most conversations with her.  She was very weird and family gatherings were always awkward when she was around.  She wasn't a good fit for our family at all.  Pity she still carries our name.

[Admiral Yi]

I was wondering about that comment too Meri.  I've known plenty of Jesus freaks and the Jesus freakiest they get at Christmas is going to an extra service.

[Razgovory]

Kwaanza is totally irrelevant to discussions of social interaction and the public space because, as Neil pointed out, it's a segregationist holiday.  Nobody will ever wish me a happy Kwaanza and nobody will ever invite me to play Kwaanza reindeer games.  If it weren't for obligatory public school announcements and public television Kwaanza greetings, it would be relatively easy to forget the holiday even exists.

I can foresee a day when black folks have given up on their goofy seperatist holiday and it's still chugging along on school bulletin boards and PBS station breaks.

I don't think it was ever very popular.  Most African Americans are Christian, and as you and Neil point out it is a racist holiday.

[garbon]

Kwaanza is totally irrelevant to discussions of social interaction and the public space because, as Neil pointed out, it's a segregationist holiday.  Nobody will ever wish me a happy Kwaanza and nobody will ever invite me to play Kwaanza reindeer games.  If it weren't for obligatory public school announcements and public television Kwaanza greetings, it would be relatively easy to forget the holiday even exists.

I can foresee a day when black folks have given up on their goofy seperatist holiday and it's still chugging along on school bulletin boards and PBS station breaks.

I don't think it was ever very popular.  Most African Americans are Christian, and as you and Neil point out it is a racist holiday.

The wikipedia page for Kwanzaa features a picture with several white people in it. So while it had its origins there...

[derspiess]

The wikipedia page for Kwanzaa features a picture with several white people in it. So while it had its origins there...

They're self-hatin'.  Reverse-Uncle Toms.