The war on men

[Viking]

Because that kind of man wants her to enjoy sex with him only, not with anyone else. All the past sexual history indicates that she enjoys sex with not-him. This sets him up for the worst-case scenario: what if she enjoys sex with all these other men, but not him?

Conversely, the best case scenario is already excluded: she turns into a sex-ravenous slut for him, but is uninterested in sex with anyone else.

AKA the virgin-whore complex.

Surely you must have heard of it before?

No, I can honestly say that I haven't. What a weird, bizarre world men live in.

this is best explained in a scene from the first season of The Sopranos when tony is discussing getting a blowjob from his wife after getting one in the previous scene from his goo-mah. He states planely that that would be disgusting because that is the mouth she kisses his kids with.

[garbon]

Yeah, I always considered a slutty past to be a deal-breaker in terms of any serious long-term relationship.  Way too much baggage and risk.

Heh.  Tons of previous marriages or remaining a virgin until 30 strike me as also being situations with baggage and risk.

[derspiess]

Yeah, I always considered a slutty past to be a deal-breaker in terms of any serious long-term relationship.  Way too much baggage and risk.

Heh.  Tons of previous marriages or remaining a virgin until 30 strike me as also being situations with baggage and risk.

Way to read something I didn't say! 

[Viking]

substitute the words

"man" for "woman"
"marry" for "give blowjob to"
"girlfriend" for "boyfriend"
and
"her" for "him"

and please explain to me how saying the male version of that doesn't make me a male cheauvinist pig?

Well, if you were saying that the cause of that was "emotional immaturity", there would be a problem.

And if getting a blow job is that important to you, I strongly encourage you to find a woman who isn't averse to giving them.

In that case I'd strongly encourage Drakkens gf to find a man who isn't adverse to marrying her

But, you seem to have missed the entire point. Male objectives in the relationship are deemed impure but acceptable in concubinage, while female objectives in the relationship are deemed impure and unacceptable in concubinage.

[Valmy]

A slutty woman is more likely to cheat.  You're more likely to run into some guy she did circus acts with (awkward!), and I wouldn't want a woman of loose morals raising my kids. 

Well I guess it has to do with our differing sense of honor here.  If she was a slut with integrity, never cheated never stole somebody else's man, she just had sex with available people when she was young when anybody would be sewing their oats then I fail to see anything at all immoral about that.  A cheater is more likely to cheat, a person with integrity will not.

[merithyn]

Funny how when a man tells you how quite a few men feel, suddenly you are "not buying it". Guess I'll use that line when you come over and explain how women feel about how double standards suck.

Telling you how it is, a lot of men are getting more and more jaded about women and commitment, because they are not buying it from women's mouth either.

Oh, I don't doubt that that's how YOU feel about it, but I don't buy that it's the way all - or even many - men feel. And the whole, "Well, I was a slut, but that's okay, because I changed." Yet you wouldn't dare sully yourself with a woman who was, in essence, like you, because it's indicative of who they'll be forever. That's just... well, silly.

[derspiess]

Well I guess it has to do with our differing sense of honor here. 

Yep.

[merithyn]

A swing and a miss.

A slutty woman is more likely to cheat.  You're more likely to run into some guy she did circus acts with (awkward!), and I wouldn't want a woman of loose morals raising my kids. 

But I never insisted on virginity in a potential wife.

I may be thinking of a different definition of slut than you are. I'm thinking of a woman who's slept with several (or many) men, not a woman who's cheated. They are, in my opinion, two different things. Maybe they aren't to you, which would actually explain quite a bit.

The whole "loose morals" thing is a very personal thing, so it's not really something to argue. So long as there isn't a double standard on it, then that seems very fair as a criteria.

[Valmy]

Well I guess it has to do with our differing sense of honor here. 

Yep.

Yeah and I get the feeling you feel the same way about men who have sex with lots of women so that's fair. 

[merithyn]

In that case I'd strongly encourage Drakkens gf to find a man who isn't adverse to marrying her

Agreed, but that's between them.

But, you seem to have missed the entire point. Male objectives in the relationship are deemed impure but acceptable in concubinage, while female objectives in the relationship are deemed impure and unacceptable in concubinage.

I don't understand. My only issue with the whole "slut" thing is that it's often used against women by men who thought nothing of sleeping around. It's the double-standard that's galling, not the moral issues with it.

[Drakken]

Oh, I don't doubt that that's how YOU feel about it, but I don't buy that it's the way all - or even many - men feel.

Just go on forums where there are a lot of young men around. Let your mind be blown on the number of young boys and young men feel exactly like that - and how pathetic the help is.

Women are not the only one afraid of being used and have their feelings hurt when they commit. But hey, since I'm the one who tells it, it must be untrue, right?

[Jacob]

No, I can honestly say that I haven't. What a weird, bizarre world men live in.

It's also commonly called the Madonna-whore complex, or simply good-girl/bad-girl. It's fairly well established in academia (though a bit dated now I'm sue) and pop culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna%E2%80%93whore_complex
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/Miss-America-Protests/a/The-Unbeatable-Madonna-Whore-Combination.htm
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadonnaWhoreComplex
http://therawness.com/madonnawhore-complexes-part-3/

[Jacob]

A swing and a miss.

A slutty woman is more likely to cheat.  You're more likely to run into some guy she did circus acts with (awkward!), and I wouldn't want a woman of loose morals raising my kids. 

But I never insisted on virginity in a potential wife.

I wasn't really aiming at you.

[Valmy]

Just go on forums where there are a lot of young men around. Let your mind be blown on the number of young boys and young men feel exactly like that - and how pathetic the help is.

Women are not the only one afraid of being used and have their feelings hurt when they commit. But hey, since I'm the one who tells it, it must be untrue, right?

Eh I hang out on alot of sports forums and it is pretty divided whenever the topic comes up.  But certainly your opinion is not uncommon.

The primary impact is it encourages women to lie about the number of people they slept with which is pretty harmless I guess.

[derspiess]

I may be thinking of a different definition of slut than you are. I'm thinking of a woman who's slept with several (or many) men, not a woman who's cheated. They are, in my opinion, two different things. Maybe they aren't to you, which would actually explain quite a bit.

No, I think we have the same definition.  I think sluts are generally more pre-disposed to cheat than non-sluts.  There are exceptions, of course, but in risk management you look at general tendencies.

The whole "loose morals" thing is a very personal thing, so it's not really something to argue. So long as there isn't a double standard on it, then that seems very fair as a criteria.

I sorta believe in the infamous double standard, just maybe not the extreme application of it.