Debate III, the one just for Languish: US Foreign Policy

[CountDeMoney]

It seems to me that if they've stopped training in the use of bayonets, they are not likely to actually, you know, use them.

Bet the guys in the war zones at Forward Base Bullshit say differently.

[derspiess]

Did they give a source?  Because ChaCha isn't necessarily authoritative.  I used to be a guide

The Washington Post

Edit: Just read through the rest of this thread. It seems to me that if they've stopped training in the use of bayonets, they are not likely to actually, you know, use them.

In addition, Time points out that even the Marines, who do still train, rarely use them.

You must have missed my subsequent post, which corroborates what the Post article actually said:

"the Army discontinued bayonet training at its basic training facilities in 2010."

It does not say the Army is no longer doing bayonet training, just that it's been discontinued in basic training. 

[The Minsky Moment]

Bayonets have lots of problems.
They are reliable, don't break very often or require much maintenance, don't require ammunition, don't use fuel, and are relatively easy to ship and stock.
Pretty much the worst weapon imaginable from the standpoint of a contractor.

[Josephus]

Not that, ultimately, it's going to matter. With a Democrat-led Senate - which seems pretty assured again - Romney will find it very difficult to get many of his plans implemented when it comes to tax cuts and more military spending.

And given the history - Obama will likely find it difficult to do anything too.

Absolutely agree.

I often wonder why these presidential elections are so huge. At the end of the day, it's the House and Senate that do the brunt of the work, and are, therefore, the more important elections.

What are the polls saying regarding who's going to win Congress? Will it still be Republican controlled?

[Viking]

Bayonets have lots of problems.
They are reliable, don't break very often or require much maintenance, don't require ammunition, don't use fuel, and are relatively easy to ship and stock.
Pretty much the worst weapon imaginable from the standpoint of a contractor.

They also require getting into much close proximity than a predator drone, requiring a monstrous logistical train which the contractor does love.

I think I have said it before that the ring bayonette is imho the most important military technology in history since it permits a return to drill that was lost in the barbarization of the roman army. No longer was a military cast needed to have and maintain an army making the outcome of war dependent not on the skill and martial attitude of a nation's military cast, but rather the ability of the institution of the army to train, equip and deploy essentially unskilled farm workers on the battlefield.

[derspiess]

I think I have said it before that the ring bayonette is imho the most important military technology in history since it permits a return to drill that was lost in the barbarization of the roman army. No longer was a military cast needed to have and maintain an army making the outcome of war dependent not on the skill and martial attitude of a nation's military cast, but rather the ability of the institution of the army to train, equip and deploy essentially unskilled farm workers on the battlefield.

And the pike didn't allow for that? 

[Viking]

I think I have said it before that the ring bayonette is imho the most important military technology in history since it permits a return to drill that was lost in the barbarization of the roman army. No longer was a military cast needed to have and maintain an army making the outcome of war dependent not on the skill and martial attitude of a nation's military cast, but rather the ability of the institution of the army to train, equip and deploy essentially unskilled farm workers on the battlefield.

And the pike didn't allow for that?

Apparently not. You don't have any feudal lords of the renaissance drafting their peasants to make them pikemen. In the manner that Fredrick Wilhelm and Napoleon do a few generations later. There is a certain élan you need to go steel to steel that you don't need to reload a reliable musket. Historical reports of bayonette use show that they are almost universally used to ward of cavalry and the few cases of bayonette charges consist of well motivated (or desperate) men effectively demonstrating to the opposition that they were willing to go steel to steel and thus causing the defenders to decide to run. In the American Revolution again and again the professional redcoats win battles when heavily outnumbered by mounting bayonette charges against milita.

[Razgovory]

I don't think the Romans were big on conscripting peasants either.

[FunkMonk]

On the bayonet issue (LOL really???)

I was trained in bayonet use in Basic back in 2004. Then pretty much never saw one or had one issued to me the entire time I was assigned to an infantry battalion.

Disclaimer on pointy objects: I was commo so maybe the infantry peons had a secret stash under their pillows but I never did see one, even deployed. Instead most of us brought personal knives. Really sharp, long as fuck knives. I kept mine on me at all times. Because holy shit if some bad shit happens and I'm out of ammo I'm stabbing as many fuckers as I can.   

[jimmy olsen]

From what I can tell from the reports, the Eurozone crisis wasn't mentioned. You have to wonder whether e.g. the civil war in Syria or the economic depression in Europe is more relevant to American foreign policy interests.

We can eventually decide to bomb the Syrians, we can't do the same with Spain.

[DGuller]

Modern bayonets lack style.  They look like a steak knife taped to the rifle.  It doesn't quite have the same fear factor as the triangular bayonet, which looks like it can create a human kebab if the enemy lines up the right way.

[Jacob]

From what I can tell from the reports, the Eurozone crisis wasn't mentioned. You have to wonder whether e.g. the civil war in Syria or the economic depression in Europe is more relevant to American foreign policy interests.

We can eventually decide to bomb the Syrians, we can't do the same with Spain.

Yeah, you do get the impression that people are mostly interested in the kind of foreign policy that involves using the armed forces to get your way either implicitly or explicitly.

[Razgovory]

Maybe we can get a drone that fires bayonets.  That way everyone is happy.

[Razgovory]

And horses.

[Lettow77]

There is a certain élan you need to go steel to steel that you don't need to reload a reliable musket. Historical reports of bayonette use show that they are almost universally used to ward of cavalry and the few cases of bayonette charges consist of well motivated (or desperate) men effectively demonstrating to the opposition that they were willing to go steel to steel and thus causing the defenders to decide to run. In the American Revolution again and again the professional redcoats win battles when heavily outnumbered by mounting bayonette charges against milita.

élan is such an exalting thing! Can you not imagine the tragic glory inherent in brave men charging fruitlessly, being cut down by ruinous fire? Does it not move you to envision the gaping, pasty-faced men of the gunline felling their betters?

There is another time and another place, where little miss General Lee sits atop her dazzling white pony, and directs the knights against the yankee peasants who stand trembling, clutching their spears with faltering resolve and abject terror. No arbalest was yet created with the impudence to puncture the armor of such pure maidens! The day is swept for secession, and the victorious assemblage celebrates with tea and cake.