Warren - Brown Senate Race

[DGuller]

I moved to Korea and have lived there for three years since the last presidential election, so there! :p

Unlike most Republicans, our Tim is hardcore.

[Count]

I moved to Korea and have lived there for three years since the last presidential election, so there! :p

Unlike most Republicans, our Tim is hardcore.

Ha, I was thinking the same thing.

[Eddie Teach]

Does he know he doesn't have to actually vote for Obama before he can come home? 

[Darth Wagtaros]

I worked at the debate in Lowell, making the web feed go out.  It was an interesting night.  Was like a giant party going on outside.  Inside too.

Brown came across as kind of an ass, and didn't do altogether great.  The debate itself though was fluffy. Seemed like nothing much happened until the last few minutes, where they briefly covered Afghanistan, the DREAM Act, and the debt. 

[Kleves]

Has Warren ever given a plausible reason for claiming she was part-Indian if she did not do it to advance her career?

[garbon]

Has Warren ever given a plausible reason for claiming she was part-Indian if she did not do it to advance her career?

I think she just started dodging and weaving about how it was an unfair attack.

[CountDeMoney]

Has Warren ever given a plausible reason for claiming she was part-Indian if she did not do it to advance her career?

As she witnessed her mother's issues with her father's family to the point they had to elope out of state to get married as they didn't approve of her Injun blood, she decided she wasn't going to sweep it under the rug for herself.

Take pride in your tribe, baby.

[garbon]

Has Warren ever given a plausible reason for claiming she was part-Indian if she did not do it to advance her career?

As she witnessed her mother's issues with her father's family to the point they had to elope out of state to get married as they didn't approve of her Injun blood, she decided she wasn't going to sweep it under the rug for herself.

Take pride in your tribe, baby.

Except that she did as she quit drawing attention to it:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/Senate/2012/0926/Elizabeth-Warren-and-Cherokee-heritage-what-is-known-about-allegations

Here is what has come out so far through the political campaigns and through media reports.

1. Warren listed herself as a minority. The Association of American Law Schools (AALS) directory included, as of its 1986-87 edition, a list of "minority law teachers." Warren, then at the University of Texas, was on the list. Moving to the University of Pennsylvania the next year, she continued to be on the minority list through the directory's 1994-95 edition. The later years of her listing coincided with her recruitment by Harvard Law School, initially as a visiting professor.

2. Harvard was under pressure to diversify its faculty. Warren's listing came at a time when law schools around the country faced pressure from minority advocates to show greater diversity on their faculty, in race as well as gender. In one 1992 incident, students staged a sit-in in the office of the Law School dean to push for greater faculty diversity.

A sign of the times: The AALS list of minority law professors grew from four pages in length in 1986-87 to seven pages by the mid-1990s.

3. Harvard hired her, and she was viewed as boosting racial diversity. The Boston Herald cited a 1996 Harvard Crimson article in which a law school spokesman listed "one native American" as part of a diverse faculty, a reference to Warren. Similarly, the Crimson in 1998 referred to Warren as "the first woman with a minority background to be tenured" at the law school, the Herald said. The Boston Globe reported that in 1999, Harvard published an affirmative action report that lists a native American professor at the law school, specifying that the individual is female. Before Warren arrived full time at Harvard, some of the people leading the diversity push apparently viewed Warren as a minority. A 1993 issue of the Harvard Women's Law Journal listed her among "women of color" in legal academia.

4. Full details about her hiring have not been made public. Warren's campaign has released statements from some people involved in the hiring committees that recruited her at Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania. Robert Clark, former dean of the Harvard Law School, said "her Native American heritage was not a factor in the discussion or the decision."

But Warren has not asked that Harvard release documents related to her hiring, as Brown has urged her to do. Some important details about her career advancement remain in question.

Warren has said that, in addition to listing herself as a minority in the AALS directory, she claimed minority status with her employers. "At some point after Elizabeth was hired at the University of Pennsylvania and at Harvard, she made officials aware of her Native American heritage because it's true and because she's proud of her background," says a statement on her campaign website.

It is not unusual that information about a new hire's racial identity would be provided after the fact of hiring. Data on group identities are gathered, separate from the hiring process, for tracking an institution's record on affirmative action.

5. Warren doesn't appear to fit Harvard's definition of minority.  In one document published in 1997, Harvard published details of its affirmative action plan. It defined a native American as "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North America and who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition." The document said this definition is consistent with federal regulations.

Warren has cited family lore of Cherokee and Delaware heritage on her mother's side of the family. But genealogists have not been able to confirm any ties. Warren is not known to have maintained any cultural affiliation, such as with a tribe.

6. She stopped listing herself as a minority. Warren's listing as a minority teacher in the AALS directory ended with the 1994-95 edition, when she was at the University of Pennsylvania and being recruited by Harvard. Early on in the controversy, Warren said her goal in the minority listing was to meet others with a similar background, and when such social contacts didn't develop she dropped the listing.

Throughout the controversy, Democrats have backed Warren even as her actions have drawn fire from native Americans including members of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.

The party opted not to have Warren face a primary opponent, and she was given a prominent speaking spot at the Democratic National Convention early this month.

The Scott Brown camp, meanwhile, has stirred up a bit of controversy on its own side this week. Some members of his campaign staff were caught on videotape whooping and making tomahawk motions near a group of Warren supporters, according to local news reports.

"It is certainly something that I don't condone," Brown said on WCVB Tuesday. "It's certainly something that, if I'm aware of it, I'll tell that member to never do it again."

In a separate comment Tuesday, he took the issue back to Warren: "The offensiveness here is the fact that Professor Warren took advantage of a claim to be somebody, a native American, using that for an advantage.... And then after she attained tenure she unchecked that box."

5. Warren doesn't appear to fit Harvard's definition of minority.  In one document published in 1997, Harvard published details of its affirmative action plan. It defined a native American as "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North America and who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition." The document said this definition is consistent with federal regulations.

Warren has cited family lore of Cherokee and Delaware heritage on her mother's side of the family. But genealogists have not been able to confirm any ties. Warren is not known to have maintained any cultural affiliation, such as with a tribe.

6. She stopped listing herself as a minority. Warren's listing as a minority teacher in the AALS directory ended with the 1994-95 edition, when she was at the University of Pennsylvania and being recruited by Harvard. Early on in the controversy, Warren said her goal in the minority listing was to meet others with a similar background, and when such social contacts didn't develop she dropped the listing.

Throughout the controversy, Democrats have backed Warren even as her actions have drawn fire from native Americans including members of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.

The party opted not to have Warren face a primary opponent, and she was given a prominent speaking spot at the Democratic National Convention early this month.

The Scott Brown camp, meanwhile, has stirred up a bit of controversy on its own side this week. Some members of his campaign staff were caught on videotape whooping and making tomahawk motions near a group of Warren supporters, according to local news reports.

"It is certainly something that I don't condone," Brown said on WCVB Tuesday. "It's certainly something that, if I'm aware of it, I'll tell that member to never do it again."

In a separate comment Tuesday, he took the issue back to Warren: "The offensiveness here is the fact that Professor Warren took advantage of a claim to be somebody, a native American, using that for an advantage.... And then after she attained tenure she unchecked that box."

[CountDeMoney]

And my grandmother stopped putting "Kiss Me, I'm Irish" bumper stickers on her car after a while, too.  What's your point?

Kleves asked what the basis was for the claim, not why she may have stopped using it as she got older.

Pretty fucking funny coming from you, anyway.  1/32 blood would've gotten your cafe au lait ass poll taxed right out of the fucking booth not too long ago, zebra.

[Darth Wagtaros]

She had a primary opponent.  The Party Hackery decided to just pretend she didn't.

[garbon]

And my grandmother stopped putting "Kiss Me, I'm Irish" bumper stickers on her car after a while, too.  What's your point?

Kleves asked what the basis was for the claim, not why she may have stopped using it as she got older.

Pretty fucking funny coming from you, anyway.  1/32 blood would've gotten your cafe au lait ass poll taxed right out of the fucking booth not too long ago, zebra.

That's not a plausible reason to start going around claiming native american heritage. Certainly not more plausible than you knew it would help you get ahead (sort of like how when applying for scholarships and colleges, I checked black).

I have no idea what that last bit of your post is about - unless you're saying that it is hypocritical of me if I point out that people shouldn't claim a heritage that there is no proof or indication that they might have.

Maybe you missed it in my article:

5. Warren doesn't appear to fit Harvard's definition of minority.  In one document published in 1997, Harvard published details of its affirmative action plan. It defined a native American as "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North America and who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition." The document said this definition is consistent with federal regulations.

Warren has cited family lore of Cherokee and Delaware heritage on her mother's side of the family. But genealogists have not been able to confirm any ties. Warren is not known to have maintained any cultural affiliation, such as with a tribe.

[Kleves]

Take pride in your tribe, baby.

Well, did she ever put herself forward as a minority in a situation where it probably wouldn't be advantageous to her career?

[CountDeMoney]

That's not a plausible reason to start going around claiming native american heritage. Certainly not more plausible than you knew it would help you get ahead (sort of like how when applying for scholarships and colleges, I checked black).

Sure it is;  plenty of people across all sorts of lineages have rediscovered their roots.  Has happened to plenty of ethnic backgrounds over the generations, reclaiming their original names after their parents or grandparents emigrated to this country, when names like "Takeshito" or "Klepacki" were frowned up, and they were changed.  I see no problem with a woman who, after seeing the emotional pain her own mother went through, decided that she was going to be proud of her heritage.  Shame you're not proud of America's.

I have no idea what that last bit of your post is about - unless you're saying that it is hypocritical of me if I point out that people shouldn't claim a heritage that there is no proof or indication that they might have.

No, just an example that 1/32 bloodlines are valid, and have been for quite some time.  Besides, we already know you're self-loathing on a number of levels.

[CountDeMoney]

Take pride in your tribe, baby.

Well, did she ever put herself forward as a minority in a situation where it probably wouldn't be advantageous to her career?

I don't know, Kleves.  Why don't you fucking ask her.

Last I saw, mixed blood in this country is no fast track to riches.  It's so advantageous, why don't you get a transfusion and try it?  How about knocking up a sistah, and finding out in 18 years?

[CountDeMoney]

Maybe you missed it in my article:

5. Warren doesn't appear to fit Harvard's definition of minority.  In one document published in 1997, Harvard published details of its affirmative action plan. It defined a native American as "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North America and who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition." The document said this definition is consistent with federal regulations.

Warren has cited family lore of Cherokee and Delaware heritage on her mother's side of the family. But genealogists have not been able to confirm any ties. Warren is not known to have maintained any cultural affiliation, such as with a tribe.

5 years before she was already teaching law at Harvard.  Big fucking deal.  You're chasing dog whistles.

You want to bitch about her advancing her career, I'd much rather accept the argument of her marrying a Harvard law professor before she started teaching there.    We all know chicks sleep their way to the top, anyway.