European views on American involvement in the Vietnam war.

[garbon]

It doesn't describe all geopolitics as imperialism and certainly wouldn't include defensive wars.

Vietnam was a defensive war. 

Or are you using defensive war in some subtle way that I'm missing?

I dont recall the North vietnamese attacking the US.  I do recall the US proping up another government.  Is that what you mean by defensive Yi?

South Vietnam was and we defended them.

[Admiral Yi]

I dont recall the North vietnamese attacking the US.  I do recall the US proping up another government.  Is that what you mean by defensive Yi?

I don't recall Hitler attacking Britain.  I don't recall Saddam attacking anyone other than Kuwait. Is that what you mean by propping up another government cc?

[crazy canuck]

I dont recall the North vietnamese attacking the US. 

Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

I think you are being ironic here.

The one where the US attacked North Korean boats to give the pretext for congressional authorization.

[Zanza]

Well we did kill millions of Germans.

No. Unless "we" includes the Soviet Union.

Really?  I figured those giant firestorms that leveled those cities took out at least 1 million.

No. About 400k.

Germany lost to the Soviet Union. The Allies were just a sideshow.

[crazy canuck]

I dont recall the North vietnamese attacking the US.  I do recall the US proping up another government.  Is that what you mean by defensive Yi?

I don't recall Hitler attacking Britain.  I don't recall Saddam attacking anyone other than Kuwait. Is that what you mean by propping up another government cc?

I am not sure what Hitler attacking Britain has to do with your argument.  Britain entered because of treaty obligations.  The US entered Vietnam under a pretext generated by the US.  The war in the Gulf is a good example of US imperialist tendancies so I am not sure how much that helps you.

You dont understand the meaning of prop up?

[crazy canuck]

It doesn't describe all geopolitics as imperialism and certainly wouldn't include defensive wars.

Vietnam was a defensive war. 

Or are you using defensive war in some subtle way that I'm missing?

I dont recall the North vietnamese attacking the US.  I do recall the US proping up another government.  Is that what you mean by defensive Yi?

South Vietnam was and we defended them.

Stay away, the adults are talking now.

[Admiral Yi]

I am not sure what Hitler attacking Britain has to do with your argument.  Britain entered because of treaty obligations.  The US entered Vietnam under a pretext generated by the US.  The war in the Gulf is a good example of US imperialist tendancies so I am not sure how much that helps you.

You dont understand the meaning of prop up?

So Gulf War I, which was fought on the basis of the UN article calling for mutual defense against aggression, is an imperialist war (which paints about 40 countries, including the likes of Norway and Denmark, with the imperialist brush) yet Britain gets a pass for WWII because they publicly pledged to defend Poland.  OK, it's getting a lot clearer now.

[Valmy]

No. About 400k.

Germany lost to the Soviet Union. The Allies were just a sideshow.

Oh come on.  Surely all the Germans we killed in WWII adds up to at least a million.

[garbon]

Stay away, the adults are talking now.

You may be my elder but I haven't seen anything here that suggests a compelling reason to defer to you.

[Razgovory]

I dont recall the North vietnamese attacking the US.  I do recall the US proping up another government.  Is that what you mean by defensive Yi?

I don't recall Hitler attacking Britain.  I don't recall Saddam attacking anyone other than Kuwait. Is that what you mean by propping up another government cc?

I am not sure what Hitler attacking Britain has to do with your argument.  Britain entered because of treaty obligations.  The US entered Vietnam under a pretext generated by the US.  The war in the Gulf is a good example of US imperialist tendancies so I am not sure how much that helps you.

You dont understand the meaning of prop up?

Didn't the US sign a treaty with South Vietnam?

[Jacob]

Sure it was a defensive war, but it was a war in defence of a local dictator the US had selected, whom the US maintained in the face of overwhelming opposition from the populace, and whom the US countenanced being overthrown when they soured on him sufficiently.

That's a pretty textbook case of propping up client regime, it seems to me.

[Jacob]

So Gulf War I, which was fought on the basis of the UN article calling for mutual defense against aggression, is an imperialist war (which paints about 40 countries, including the likes of Norway and Denmark, with the imperialist brush) yet Britain gets a pass for WWII because they publicly pledged to defend Poland.  OK, it's getting a lot clearer now.

Yi, what's your definition of an imperialist war?

[Razgovory]

Sure it was a defensive war, but it was a war in defence of a local dictator the US had selected, whom the US maintained in the face of overwhelming opposition from the populace, and whom the US countenanced being overthrown when they soured on him sufficiently.

That's a pretty textbook case of propping up client regime, it seems to me.

Wait, how do you know there was "overwhelming opposition".  It's not like someone was polling people.

[Admiral Yi]

Sure it was a defensive war, but it was a war in defence of a local dictator the US had selected, whom the US maintained in the face of overwhelming opposition from the populace, and whom the US countenanced being overthrown when they soured on him sufficiently.

That's a pretty textbook case of propping up client regime, it seems to me.

No, Bao Dai was the king the Frogs had selected.  Diem was a president chosen by the Vietnamese people in an election.

[Admiral Yi]

Yi, what's your definition of an imperialist war?

A war fought to aquire colonies and/or subjugate states.