European views on American involvement in the Vietnam war.

[Razgovory]

Noble ?

Seems a daft descriptor for an ill thought out, open-end commitment to a corrupt failing state, that cost a treasury's worth of imperial gold.

Oh and it gave the US's two principle rivals at the time the opportunity to slowly bleed the US and divide the country domestically, to little cost to themselves.


Wasn't there an old adage about not engaging in land wars on the Asian mainland ?

I wonder if in a few years Iraq will also be described as a 'Noble' war ?

It was a corrupt state that was failing because it was being invaded by another state.

And it was artificial, Eisenhower thought the large majority of people would have voted for Ho, in countrywide elections. Hence, those didn't happen and the only temporary division at what became the DMZ lasted for 20 or so years.

How it more artificial then a communist dictatorship?

[Razgovory]

Well somebody did in some picture Raz has.

Raz is insane. 

I saw it posted on this forum.

[Razgovory]

I expect that about 95% of Europeans' ideas about the Vietnam war is based on American popular media - all the films, the music, the counter culture, and even the impact on American politics. All that may be filtered through 5% worth of local prejudice, but mostly it's just regurgitation of American introspection; no one cares about the Vietnam war.

I haven't seen the picture Raz talked about in the OP, but is there anything to indicate that it reflects European views of the Vietnam war?

That too. I have two mental pictures when it comes to the Vietnam war. One is the hippie girl presenting a flower to a soldier at some protest. The other is Dr. Manhattan blowing up the Vietnamese in The Watchmen.

This might be because you are really, really stupid.

[CountDeMoney]

Well somebody did in some picture Raz has.

Only Raz would start a thread about a picture with no fucking picture in it.  Trolled.

[Neil]

And it was artificial, Eisenhower thought the large majority of people would have voted for Ho, in countrywide elections.

Democracy.  Imagine that.

But not exactly.  After all, we don't commonly associate democracy with the mass murder of everyone who didn't vote Communist.

[Neil]

Dresden carpet-bombing is regarded as an atrocity by many modern Europeans.

Nobody with any sense though.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I think the point here is that someone was comparing US involvement in Vietnam to Auschwitz.

No matter what your view on Vietnam, I am not sure how you could actually compare those two as being of a kind that makes any comparison valid in any way at all.

Very little has changed as US involvement in Afghanistan is compared to Nazi Germany.

. Stop with the martyr complex already.

Oh the supreme irony.

[sbr]

Well somebody did in some picture Raz has.

Only Raz would start a thread about a picture with no fucking picture in it.  Trolled.

[frunk]

I know the pic Raz is talking about.  It has a list of items comparing Europe and the US, including art, culture, history, architecture.  One of them is Auschwitz/Vietnam.

[CountDeMoney]

And it was artificial, Eisenhower thought the large majority of people would have voted for Ho, in countrywide elections.

Democracy.  Imagine that.

But not exactly.  After all, we don't commonly associate democracy with the mass murder of everyone who didn't vote Communist.

Really wish you people wouldn't have such hang ups like that when it comes to the Party.

[Eddie Teach]

I know the pic Raz is talking about.  It has a list of items comparing Europe and the US, including art, culture, history, architecture.  One of them is Auschwitz/Vietnam.

Yeah. It wasn't the only lame comparison in the list either. Somebody was trying too hard.

[jimmy olsen]

Noble ?

Seems a daft descriptor for an ill thought out, open-end commitment to a corrupt failing state, that cost a treasury's worth of imperial gold.

Oh and it gave the US's two principle rivals at the time the opportunity to slowly bleed the US and divide the country domestically, to little cost to themselves.


Wasn't there an old adage about not engaging in land wars on the Asian mainland ?

That describes S. Korea in 1950. That worked out ok, and so would S. Vietnam if we had won the war.

[Zanza]

As far as I can tell, the picture that is most likely to be used to illustrate the Vietnam War here is this: http://media.npr.org/thisibelieve/kimphuc/kimphuc_ap_540-23c019bff4f854e0f64c9dcd1c036302bffa175d.jpg

I guess that when people have an opinion, the Vietnam war isn't seen as "noble if misguided" like Raz sees it, but rather as US imperialism that led to terrible bloodshed. Defending a corrupt, kleptrocratic regime with Agent Orange and Napalm isn't really a convincing message. I heard comparisons to the Soviet Union's war in Afghanistan.

That said, it's certainly not compared to Auschwitz here.

[clandestino]

I guess that when people have an opinion, the Vietnam war isn't seen as "noble if misguided" like Raz sees it, but rather as US imperialism that led to terrible bloodshed. Defending a corrupt, kleptrocratic regime with Agent Orange and Napalm isn't really a convincing message. I heard comparisons to the Soviet Union's war in Afghanistan.

That's how I see it. But since I belong to the "marxists and other idiots" group feel free to disregard my opinion.

[Neil]

Well, I suppose it did cause increased bloodshed amongst Americans and North Vietnamese, but all the South Vietnamese that were killed as a result of the war probably would have been murdered by the Communists anyways.