European views on American involvement in the Vietnam war.

[mongers]

Noble ?

Seems a daft descriptor for an ill thought out, open-end commitment to a corrupt failing state, that cost a treasury's worth of imperial gold.

Oh and it gave the US's two principle rivals at the time the opportunity to slowly bleed the US and divide the country domestically, to little cost to themselves.


Wasn't there an old adage about not engaging in land wars on the Asian mainland ?

I wonder if in a few years Iraq will also be described as a 'Noble' war ?

It was a corrupt state that was failing because it was being invaded by another state.

And it was artificial, Eisenhower thought the large majority of people would have voted for Ho, in countrywide elections. Hence, those didn't happen and the only temporary division at what became the DMZ lasted for 20 or so years.

[mongers]

I think the point here is that someone was comparing US involvement in Vietnam to Auschwitz.

No matter what your view on Vietnam, I am not sure how you could actually compare those two as being of a kind that makes any comparison valid in any way at all.

I was going to say it was the result of idiot journalism, but on re-reading the OP it's in all probability just some nonsensical crap off of facebook.

[Valmy]

And it was artificial, Eisenhower thought the large majority of people would have voted for Ho, in countrywide elections. Hence, those didn't happen and the only temporary division at what became the DMZ lasted for 20 or so years.

Mistakes were made ok?  Maybe we could have made a deal with Ho and his people...or maybe not they might have been mad at us for bankrolling the French.

[CountDeMoney]

And it was artificial, Eisenhower thought the large majority of people would have voted for Ho, in countrywide elections.

Democracy.  Imagine that.

[Martinus]

People who moan about the Vietnam war.
Whenever I see it its far more about sending in conscripts to die, agent orange, napalming villages, etc...
Nobody really cares about the geo-politics of it all.

Plenty of people who have moaned and still moan do so regarding the oppresive imperialist Americans oppressing the independence-loving Vietnamese people.

Not really. I think when you ask an average European about the Vietnam war, the most common association you will get is "napalm" and "helicopter snipers". Which corroborates Tyr's point.

[Martinus]

The issue people have with Vietnam is with the American methods rather than their helping South Vietnam.

People who?  That certainly doesn't sound like the boilerplate criticism that I'm accustomed to hearing.

People who moan about the Vietnam war.
Whenever I see it its far more about sending in conscripts to die, agent orange, napalming villages, etc...
Nobody really cares about the geo-politics of it all.

Then why don't they complain about Allied involvement in WWII?  You have conscripts and firebombing there as well.

Dresden carpet-bombing is regarded as an atrocity by many modern Europeans.

[Martinus]

I expect that about 95% of Europeans' ideas about the Vietnam war is based on American popular media - all the films, the music, the counter culture, and even the impact on American politics. All that may be filtered through 5% worth of local prejudice, but mostly it's just regurgitation of American introspection; no one cares about the Vietnam war.

I haven't seen the picture Raz talked about in the OP, but is there anything to indicate that it reflects European views of the Vietnam war?

That too. I have two mental pictures when it comes to the Vietnam war. One is the hippie girl presenting a flower to a soldier at some protest. The other is Dr. Manhattan blowing up the Vietnamese in The Watchmen.

Neither is an accurate depiction of reality nor something that occupies people here.

You Yanks have an obsession about people in the rest of the world caring about you.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I think the point here is that someone was comparing US involvement in Vietnam to Auschwitz.

No matter what your view on Vietnam, I am not sure how you could actually compare those two as being of a kind that makes any comparison valid in any way at all.

Very little has changed as US involvement in Afghanistan is compared to Nazi Germany.

[Martinus]

I think the point here is that someone was comparing US involvement in Vietnam to Auschwitz.

No matter what your view on Vietnam, I am not sure how you could actually compare those two as being of a kind that makes any comparison valid in any way at all.

Very little has changed as US involvement in Afghanistan is compared to Nazi Germany.

Really? Never heard that one either. Stop with the martyr complex already.

[Martinus]

I think the point here is that someone was comparing US involvement in Vietnam to Auschwitz.

Never heard that comparison.

[Valmy]

Well somebody did in some picture Raz has.

[derspiess]

My understanding is that Europe cared quite a lot about the Vietnam War while it was going on, and it lingered in the 70s and 80s in the minds of anti-Americans.  Doesn't seem to be as much an issue for them these days, though.

[Martinus]

Well somebody did in some picture Raz has.

Raz is insane. 

[Martinus]

My understanding is that Europe cared quite a lot about the Vietnam War while it was going on, and it lingered in the 70s and 80s in the minds of anti-Americans.  Doesn't seem to be as much an issue for them these days, though.

Yeah, pretty much. European public now cares about the banks, the debt crisis, the evil (American, Jewish, British - delete as appropriate) bankers, and possibly Israel although that one is so last decade.

I heard Israel politics towards Palestinians compared to Auschwitz more than the Vietnam war but that's still a fringe.

[crazy canuck]

I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.

Now what was this thread about?

I was too young to really know what Vietnam was about.  Its biggest impact in BC was an influx of draft dodgers  - many of whom have contributed fairly significantly to local politics and culture.  By the time I became politically aware the threat of the cold war growing hot or accidental nuclear war was the big concern and Vietnam had already become a footnote in history.