European views on American involvement in the Vietnam war.

[Martinus]

I think if you asked an average European to list the biggest atrocities committed by the USA, the Vietnam war, rightly or wrongly, would have been in the top three (along with the Trail of Tears and slavery).

[Martinus]

but you cannot deny that where there was no threat of a communist putsch or invasion there was no support for dictators.

This statement is false, unless you are going to claim that every country during the period from 1950 until 1990 was under a threat of a communist putsch or invasion, or if you count a democratically elected government with communist sympathies to be "a communist putsch".

[jimmy olsen]

I think if you asked an average European to list the biggest atrocities committed by the USA, the Vietnam war, rightly or wrongly, would have been in the top three (along with the Trail of Tears and slavery).

Would the average European even know what the Trail of Tears was?

[Viking]

I think if you asked an average European to list the biggest atrocities committed by the USA, the Vietnam war, rightly or wrongly, would have been in the top three (along with the Trail of Tears and slavery).

Would the average European even know what the Trail of Tears was?

Imperialist murder and conquest of Indian lands.

[Eddie Teach]

Imperialist murder and conquest of Indian lands.

Are you positing yourself as an "average European"?

[Viking]

Imperialist murder and conquest of Indian lands.

Are you positing yourself as an "average European"?

No, I'm saying that the this is what the average European thinks.

[Eddie Teach]

No, I'm saying that the this is what the average European thinks.

Well, I'm inclined to agree with Tim that the average European will either have never heard the term or forgotten its significance. Quite a few Americans as well.

[Jacob]

I think the point here is that someone was comparing US involvement in Vietnam to Auschwitz.

No matter what your view on Vietnam, I am not sure how you could actually compare those two as being of a kind that makes any comparison valid in any way at all.

Agreed.

But is the daft comparison intended to say "what the US did in Vietnam is just like Auschwitz, AmeriKKKa = Hitler!!!1!!!" or is it supposed to say "you can't say anything bad about the US in Vietnam becaus HITLER!!!1"

[Eddie Teach]

I think the point here is that someone was comparing US involvement in Vietnam to Auschwitz.

No matter what your view on Vietnam, I am not sure how you could actually compare those two as being of a kind that makes any comparison valid in any way at all.

Agreed.

But is the daft comparison intended to say "what the US did in Vietnam is just like Auschwitz, AmeriKKKa = Hitler!!!1!!!" or is it supposed to say "you can't say anything bad about the US in Vietnam becaus HITLER!!!1"

It was the first. The (ham-fisted) point of the thing was to say Europe and America are all the same.

[Josquius]

No, I'm saying that the this is what the average European thinks.

Well, I'm inclined to agree with Tim that the average European will either have never heard the term or forgotten its significance. Quite a few Americans as well.

Yeah, I don't think the average person would know about the Trail of Tears.
Though they would know the broad simplified history of Americans killing the natives and taking their land.

[Syt]

That's interesting I thought that the anti-Vietnam protests in Germany was the start of what became the 80s peace movements and, I think, the Greens (and to a lesser extent?) the Left. 

They were certainly a kernel for the peace movement. Still, peace movement and "AmeriKKKa is evyl!" were going hand in hand. Or rather, war, under any circumstances, is evil, therefore countries claiming to stand up for positive values and yet going to (offensive) war are evil.

[Eddie Teach]

Yeah, I don't think the average person would know about the Trail of Tears.
Though they would know the broad simplified history of Americans killing the natives and taking their land.

Surely Eurocommies should be sympathetic to squatters coming in and taking over from absentee landlords? 

[Zoupa]

I'd be amazed if euros knowledgeable about what the trail of tears even refers to is over 1%.

[Jacob]

but you cannot deny that where there was no threat of a communist putsch or invasion there was no support for dictators.

I'm pretty sure you can find examples of US imperialism in South and Central America that did not involve (and in some cases predates) threats of Communist putsches or invasions, unless you get ridiculously creative with your interpretation.

And even so, just because your imperialist ambition is to thwart another imperialist power does not make your actions non-imperialist.

If you're fighting and/or spending significant amounts of money to pick which local elites rule a country as your client, especially if you thwart the popular will of the people in doing so, that's imperialism. That includes all kinds of US actions in South and Central America and it includes the involvement in Vietnam.

[Eddie Teach]

And even so, just because your imperialist ambition is to thwart another imperialist power does not make your actions non-imperialist.

Right, like the vile imperialism that led the UK to defend Poland.