The Great Debate Megathread! Black Lincoln versus whiter, richer Douglas!

[Kleves]

I kind of like the electoral college, but all electors in all states should be divided proportionally (w/ perhaps the winner being awarded an extra vote or two).

[PDH]

The Electoral College should be like a real college, with parties and football games.

[Valmy]

I kind of like the electoral college, but all electors in all states should be divided proportionally (w/ perhaps the winner being awarded an extra vote or two).

This is a compromise I could live with.  I still do not understand what is so great about it.  And if it is so great why don't States adopt it on a county by county level?  Clearly a system that is liked should be used for every election.

The only advantage I hear is that supposedly if every vote was counted equally nobody would bother to campaign anywhere but LA, Chicago, and New York and this makes the small states more important.  Since it does nothing of the sort I am waiting for the other reason it is a system I should like.

[alfred russel]

This is a compromise I could live with.  I still do not understand what is so great about it.  And if it is so great why don't States adopt it on a county by county level?  Clearly a system that is liked should be used for every election.

Several states used to, and the Supreme Court made them stop as it violated equal protection (rural areas getting more representation discriminated against urban--and often minority--voters).

[Valmy]

Several states used to, and the Supreme Court made them stop as it violated equal protection (rural areas getting more representation discriminated against urban--and often minority--voters).

Wait the Electoral College is Unconstitutional for States?  Talk about arbitrary bullshit.

[ulmont]

Several states used to, and the Supreme Court made them stop as it violated equal protection (rural areas getting more representation discriminated against urban--and often minority--voters).

Wait the Electoral College is Unconstitutional for States?  Talk about arbitrary bullshit.

Nah, it makes perfect sense.  If the Electoral College wasn't actually written into the constitution, it would be unconstitutional.

The case is Gray v. Sanders, ending Georgia's "county-unit" system.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=372&invol=368

[Neil]

A system designed to make sure the small states do not get ignored...but in practice means everybody gets ignored except for Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania?  I fail to see its merits aside from age.

Agreed.  It's a complete anachronism, and it disenfranchises states that aren't one of the few ones designated as "battleground".

Except not at all.  They're always free to vote for the other guy, and that changes the equation.

Still, you guys deserve to have these problems.  Instead of going with the perfect Westminster system, you folks elected to fail at governing.

[Valmy]

Nah, it makes perfect sense.  If the Electoral College wasn't actually written into the constitution, it would be unconstitutional.

Woah.  Consider my mind blown.

[Valmy]

Except not at all.  They're always free to vote for the other guy, and that changes the equation.

Still, you guys deserve to have these problems.  Instead of going with the perfect Westminster system, you folks elected to fail at governing.

Well at the time the Westminster system gave Old Sarum two seats in Parliament.

[alfred russel]

I like the electoral college. First, it isn't as though it is terrible. The way our country is divided, to lose the electoral vote and win the popular vote, the election almost needs to be 50-50. So a guy wins getting marginally fewer votes: that hardly seems as anti democratic as in a multi party parliamentary system where the winner gets perhaps 35% of the vote and then politicians cut deals to decide the form of government.

Second, doing away with it would really only level the playing field if we federalized elections. States don't have the same registration or voting procedures, and also don't have the same eligibility rules for who can vote.

Third, what chaos would there be if we needed a national recount. Florida alone was bad enough.

[The Minsky Moment]

The Obama administration threatened to publish the names of those holders of GM bonds who refused the terms of the restructuring.

???
I don't understand what this means.  GM's assets were sold in a 363 sale.  There are no terms for creditors to refuse in such a sale.  The only way to register disapproval is oppose the sale in court, and there is no way to do that incognito.

[Admiral Yi]

???
I don't understand what this means.  GM's assets were sold in a 363 sale.  There are no terms for creditors to refuse in such a sale.  The only way to register disapproval is oppose the sale in court, and there is no way to do that incognito.

Of course you know what it means.  You were very active in the threads about the GM bailout. 

One of the aspects of that bailout plan put forth by Obama's auto czar was it called for holders of GM bonds to be paid a specified fraction of par value (10%? 20?).  Several bond holders opposed the plan, in the belief that as first claimants to GM's assets they could do better than 10% in a liquidation.  Obama obviously didn't want GM to be liquidated.  He threatened the bond holders with time in the media stocks if they didn't give in.  After he made the threat they gave in.

[Phillip V]

There have only been a few Senate election polls post-debate, but the down-ticket effect of Mitt's performance is mixed for now.

The Ohio Senate race seems to come back to being tied after a Democratic lead: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/senate/oh/ohio_senate_mandel_vs_brown-2100.html
However in Virginia, Democratic candidate and former Governor Tim Kaine has maintained his lead against former Senator George Allen: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/senate/va/virginia_senate_allen_vs_kaine-1833.html

I am awaiting polls to see if Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts will regain his edge against Democratic challenger Elizabeth Warren, who has recently built a narrow lead: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/senate/ma/massachusetts_senate_brown_vs_warren-2093.html

[Sheilbh]

Hmmmm...that might get the Republicans to finally support ending it.  I hope so.

I LOVE the electoral college.

I still do not understand why people are so excited about Romney after that debate.  All his ideas were either horrible, vague, or completely unfeasible.

People are voting on a man, not a series of policy positions.  Romney came across well.

He threatened the bond holders with time in the media stocks if they didn't give in.  After he made the threat they gave in.

You really think this?  I can't imagine what sort of company or individual would choose to act against their rational economic interest to avoid being criticised in the media

Just to add to Phil's post, I wish Brown and Warren could both win

[CountDeMoney]

I am awaiting polls to see if Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts will regain his edge against Democratic challenger Elizabeth Warren, who has recently built a narrow lead: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/senate/ma/massachusetts_senate_brown_vs_warren-2093.html

He keeps being a dick, and he won't.