25 years old and deep in debt

[garbon]

I think it is overblown though to say that the system of college loans is destroying a generation's economic future.

What do you base that on, if you don't mind me asking?

Despite the sensational articles, I don't really see that much evidence of people whose lives have been ruined by loans. Sure affordability of college is an issue, but of the people I've encountered, it is what tipped the balance in choosing not to go to school because the price tag wasn't viable.

And I'm not against the notion that the economic future of many is in peril - if we are defining that in terms of being able to reach the same standards of living as one's parents, but I don't think loans are what are doing that.

[Ed Anger]

Get a job hippies!

Give them jobs, Boomer.

I have, lumpen proletariat.

I'M NOT LUMPEN.

Know your role.

[Ideologue]

For what it is worth, I agree with him.  The real problem is elsewhere.  Students loans are a symptom of the failure of the current system.

Are you talking about the Canadian system, the American one, or both?

And for what it's worth, I'm happy to agree that the student debt burden carried is a symptom of a larger failure. As for garbon, I'm not sure he considers the student debt burden a symptom of anything other a number of individual failures (rather than a systemic one).

Yeah, I kind of wonder at what point individual failures within a system are indicative of a failed system.  10%?  90%?

[Ideologue]

Get a job hippies!

Give them jobs, Boomer.

I have, lumpen proletariat.

I'M NOT LUMPEN.

Know your role.

No.

[Caliga]

They could interview someone whose life wasn't destroyed by loans, but that wouldn't make for very interesting reading, would it?

[Ed Anger]

Get a job hippies!

Give them jobs, Boomer.

I have, lumpen proletariat.

I'M NOT LUMPEN.

Know your role.

No.

Okay, Lumpen.

[garbon]

And for what it's worth, I'm happy to agree that the student debt burden carried is a symptom of a larger failure. As for garbon, I'm not sure he considers the student debt burden a symptom of anything other a number of individual failures (rather than a systemic one).

Well certainly there is a widespread failure when we allow the propagation of a system where students take on debt they can't afford or discharge because they can't get a good paying job if they don't have a degree and a good paying job may not even exist at the end of the day.

However, I think what we can't lose sight of is that individuals play a role in that system as well. There are more affordable schools and from my admittedly limited experience in the work place, people from non-top tier schools can still get positions.

[Razgovory]

No.

Ide, you are kinda of a scofflaw.  Not in a revolutionary way either.

[garbon]

For what it is worth, I agree with him.  The real problem is elsewhere.  Students loans are a symptom of the failure of the current system.

Are you talking about the Canadian system, the American one, or both?

And for what it's worth, I'm happy to agree that the student debt burden carried is a symptom of a larger failure. As for garbon, I'm not sure he considers the student debt burden a symptom of anything other a number of individual failures (rather than a systemic one).

Yeah, I kind of wonder at what point individual failures within a system are indicative of a failed system.  10%?  90%?

I think a failure there could be the hard death of the notion that going to college will get you a good job and your own home.

[garbon]

They could interview someone whose life wasn't destroyed by loans, but that wouldn't make for very interesting reading, would it?

Do the stories of would-be entrepreneurs up in debt while they do masters in anthropology make for interesting reading?

[Ideologue]

For what it is worth, I agree with him.  The real problem is elsewhere.  Students loans are a symptom of the failure of the current system.

Are you talking about the Canadian system, the American one, or both?

And for what it's worth, I'm happy to agree that the student debt burden carried is a symptom of a larger failure. As for garbon, I'm not sure he considers the student debt burden a symptom of anything other a number of individual failures (rather than a systemic one).

Yeah, I kind of wonder at what point individual failures within a system are indicative of a failed system.  10%?  90%?

I think a failure there could be the hard death of the notion that going to college will get you a good job and your own home.

Well, then the system's already failed, or is well advanced in the process of failing.

[MadImmortalMan]

I think a failure there could be the hard death of the notion that going to college will get you a good job and your own home.

Agreed. The main problem is that people don't have the information they need to make good decisions about their education.

[crazy canuck]

For what it is worth, I agree with him.  The real problem is elsewhere.  Students loans are a symptom of the failure of the current system.

Are you talking about the Canadian system, the American one, or both?

I think both although the problem in the US is more pronounced as the cost of education there is far greater than here.

[MadImmortalMan]

But that's going to change on its own isn't it? I mean it's already becoming a meme that college isn't worth it anymore.

[Ideologue]

But that's going to change on its own isn't it? I mean it's already becoming a meme that college isn't worth it anymore.

"On its own" is a funny way of putting it.  Through the collective efforts of many, and through the obvious overreaching of seriously-we're-not-in-it-for-profit schools, then yes.

The real problem is "what instead"?  Just because college isn't worth the expense, it doesn't change the well-accepted notion that HSDs alone are for human garbage.