25 years old and deep in debt

[Ideologue]

The law dean of Case Western Reserve University says a law degree is a good investment. Ide, take heed!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/29/opinion/law-school-is-worth-the-money.html

Law School Is Worth the Money
By LAWRENCE E. MITCHELL
Published: November 28, 2012

I'M a law dean, and I'm proud. And I think it's time to stop the nonsense. After two years of almost relentless attacks on law schools, a bit of perspective would be nice.

For at least two years, the popular press, bloggers and a few sensationalist law professors have turned American law schools into the new investment banks. We entice bright young students into our academic clutches. Succubus-like, when we've taken what we want from them, we return them to the mean and barren streets to fend for themselves.

The hysteria has masked some important realities and created an environment in which some of the brightest potential lawyers are, largely irrationally, forgoing the possibility of a rich, rewarding and, yes, profitable, career.

The starting point is the job market. It's bad. It's bad in many industries. "Bad," in law, means that most students will have trouble finding a first job, especially at law firms. But a little historical perspective will reveal that the law job market has been bad — very bad — before. To take the most recent low before this era, in 1998, 55 percent of law graduates started in law firms. In 2011, that number was 50 percent. A 9 percent decline from a previous low during the worst economic conditions in decades hardly seems catastrophic. And this statistic ignores the other jobs lawyers do.

Even so, the focus on first jobs is misplaced. We educate students for a career likely to span 40 to 50 years. The world is guaranteed to change in unpredictable ways, but that reality doesn't keep us from planning our lives. Moreover, the career for which we educate students, done through the medium of the law, is a career in leadership and creative problem solving. Many graduates will find that their legal educations give them the skills to find rich and rewarding lives in business, politics, government, finance, the nonprofit sector, the arts, education and more.

What else will these thousands of students who have been discouraged from attending law school do? Where will they find a more fulfilling career? They're not all going to be doctors or investment bankers, nor should they. Looking purely at the economics, in 2011, the median starting salary for practicing lawyers was $61,500; the mean salary for all practicing lawyers was $130,490, compared with $176,550 for corporate chief executives, $189,210 for internists and $79,300 for architects. This average includes many lawyers who graduated into really bad job markets. And the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics reports projected growth in lawyers' jobs from 2010 to 2020 at 10 percent, "about as fast as the average for all occupations."

It's true, and a problem, that tuition has increased. One report shows that tuition at private schools increased about 160 percent from 1985 to 2011. Private medical school tuition increased only 63 percent during that period. But, in 1985, medical school already cost four times more than law school. And starting salaries for law graduates have increased by 125 percent over that period.

Debt, too, is a problem. The average student at a private law school graduates with $125,000 in debt. But the average lawyer's annual salary exceeds that number. You'd consider a home mortgage at that ratio to be pretty sweet.

Investment in tuition is for a lifelong career, not a first job. There are many ways to realize a satisfactory return on this investment. Even practicing law appears to have paid off over the long term.

The graying of baby-boom lawyers creates opportunities. As more senior lawyers retire, jobs will open, even in the unlikely case that the law business doesn't expand with an improving economy. More opportunity will open to women and minorities, too. As with any industry in transition, changes in the delivery of legal services create opportunities as well as challenges. Creative, innovative and entrepreneurial lawyers will find ways to capitalize on this.

The overwrought atmosphere has created irrationalities that prevent talented students from realizing their ambitions. Last spring we accepted an excellent student with a generous financial-aid package that left her with the need to borrow only $5,000 a year. She told us that she thought it would be "irresponsible" to borrow the money. She didn't attend any law school. I think that was extremely shortsighted, but this prevailing attitude discourages bright students from attending law school.

We could do things better, and every law school with which I'm familiar is looking to address its problems. In the meantime, the one-sided analysis is inflicting significant damage, not only on law schools but also on a society that may well soon find itself bereft of its best and brightest lawyers.

Oh, I've seen it. Note the parts I bolded above.

1)The JD = lawyer canard needs to die.  When you have 45% of JDs not finding employment as lawyers, the significance the median salary of a practicing lawyer might otherwise have tends to fade.  Mitchell can create as many (mediocre) JDs as student loan checks he can cash.  Mitchell cannot create the thousands more lawyer jobs needed each year to absorb this surplus.  Also, I'll point out that going to Case Western, debt-financed at full freight (about $125k just for tuition, not including living expenses), would still leave you with a really onerous debt to income ratio even if you did catch that unicorn.

2)The full statement from the Bureau of Labor Statistics: "Employment of lawyers is expected to grow by 10 percent from 2010 to 2020, about as fast as the average for all occupations. Competition for jobs should continue to be strong because more students are graduating from law school each year than there are jobs available."  The BLS knows this.  Mitchell knows this because he read the same paragraph I did.  But Mitchell's income depends on pretending not to know it in public forums.  There have been more JDs produced since 2010 (about 135,000) than the number of lawyer jobs the BLS expects to be created this entire decade (73,600).

3)2)I would consider a mortgage at 1:1 to my made-up fantasy salary as someone who managed to both to get a starting job and then continue to practice for ten years or so, unlike the majority and perhaps the vast majority of JDs, to be pretty sweet!  However, that is because houses possess the following qualities that JDs do not: they are alienable; debt acquired to purchase them is dischargeable; and they keep the rain out.  JDs have none of those qualities, although I will concede regarding the last point they can be used as a makeshift umbrella, once.

[Ideologue]

Students Take Aim at College Endowments

'On dozens of campuses, college students are demanding that their schools combat pollution and climate change by divesting themselves of coal, oil and gas stocks.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/business/energy-environment/to-fight-climate-change-college-students-take-aim-at-the-endowment-portfolio.html

A group of Swarthmore College students is asking the school administration to take a seemingly simple step to combat pollution and climate change: sell off the endowment's holdings in large fossil fuel companies. For months, they have been getting a simple answer: no.
...
At colleges with large endowments, many administrators are viewing the demand skeptically, saying it would undermine their goal of maximum returns in support of education. Fossil fuel companies represent a significant portion of the stock market, comprising nearly 10 percent of the value of the Russell 3000, a broad index of 3,000 American companies.

No school with an endowment exceeding $1 billion has agreed to divest itself of fossil fuel stocks. At Harvard, which holds the largest endowment in the country at $31 billion, the student body recently voted to ask the school to do so. With roughly half the undergraduates voting, 72 percent of them supported the demand.

"We always appreciate hearing from students about their viewpoints, but Harvard is not considering divesting from companies related to fossil fuels," Kevin Galvin, a university spokesman, said by e-mail.

Kids sure are dumb motherfuckers.  How does selling off stocks in energy concerns affect the demand for gasoline, coal, and natural gas?  Look, I'm glad they care about the environment.  That's fine.  But this is the most pointless method of addressing the issue I've ever seen.

Now dousing the schools' physical plant in oil and setting it alight?  That would solve the commuting student issue, anyway.

[MadImmortalMan]

1)The JD = lawyer canard needs to die.

Abraham Lincoln passed the bar with no degree at all. So did Lenin.

[Ideologue]

That's super.  I wasn't talking about bar fail-outs or never-tooks, but rather licensed attorneys who are "lawyers" but are not employed as such.

[crazy canuck]

How in the fuck does a law teacher research anything?  Their discipline is not only ridiculous and made-up, but also unscientific.

I have to say that after 12 years as a lawyer (and one who does deal with law rather than just tick boxes ono a due diligence spreadsheet), I have only ever read one academic paper. And that was useless.

I've read academic papers more frequently but yes, they tend to be useless.

Problem is that the function of an academic paper is divorced from real world applications, and only affects them tangentally. In the real world, people want answers to actual problems. Academic research tends to be about considering interesting questions.

Depends what you are doing and the level of Court you are doing it in.  At the SCC or Court of Appeal academic articles can be very helpful - especially if you are trying to change/make law.

[KRonn]

Really though - taking loans enough for two degrees at non-elite universities that add up to nearly 200,000? Someone along the way should have stopped her or at least given her better advice.

Agreed there. Way too much debt! Had to be a better way.

[Malthus]

How in the fuck does a law teacher research anything?  Their discipline is not only ridiculous and made-up, but also unscientific.

I have to say that after 12 years as a lawyer (and one who does deal with law rather than just tick boxes ono a due diligence spreadsheet), I have only ever read one academic paper. And that was useless.

I've read academic papers more frequently but yes, they tend to be useless.

Problem is that the function of an academic paper is divorced from real world applications, and only affects them tangentally. In the real world, people want answers to actual problems. Academic research tends to be about considering interesting questions.

Depends what you are doing and the level of Court you are doing it in.  At the SCC or Court of Appeal academic articles can be very helpful - especially if you are trying to change/make law.

Fair enough, but of course the vast majority of most lawyer's practices are not appellate.

I have enough troubles knowing what the law is, let alone attempting to change it. 

[Neil]

Why bother studying the law when appealing to the SCC?  They can decide that up is down or black is white and nobody can stop them.

Hang them all.

[Phillip V]

Resort Living Comes To Campus

'Real-estate investors and developers are finding a lucrative market near college campuses, where they can woo students with luxury amenities.'

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323830404578145591134362564.html

Residents at a new rental community in Orlando, Fla., lounge around a resort-style pool in private cabanas. They practice their golf swings at the putting green and meditate in a Zen garden. Videogamers sip complimentary coffee while playing "Call of Duty: Black Ops II" on a multiscreen television wall. Now, they're facing final exams.

Welcome to University House, a $65 million private college dormitory that just opened near the University of Central Florida. Built by Inland American Communities Group, University House is one of the latest upscale communities sprouting up in college towns—including East Lansing, Mich., Tempe, Ariz., College Station, Texas, and others. Developers say that colleges provide a steady stream of new customers every year, and that students—and their parents—are willing to pay for luxury amenities.

Instead of bunk beds, cinder-block walls and communal showers, these newly built dorms off campus resemble apartments and offer a wide range of amenities, such as walk in-closets and custom-designed furniture. Everyone usually gets his or her own bedroom and bathroom, so the only sharing is in the high-end kitchens that often feature granite countertops and stainless-steel appliances.

Real-estate investors and developers, hungry for new areas for growth, are finding a lucrative and previously untapped market in these areas surrounding college campuses, one marked by low inventory, booming enrollment and an increasing appetite for luxury living.

[Admiral Yi]

You don't practice your swing at a putting green. 

[Josquius]

All that money and they can't afford to get themselves in anywhere better than the university of central Florida?
Idiots.

[garbon]

All that money and they can't afford to get themselves in anywhere better than the university of central Florida?
Idiots.

[CountDeMoney]

All that money and they can't afford to get themselves in anywhere better than the university of central Florida?
Idiots.

No shit, right?  A public university with 50,000 enrolled?  Shudder.

[Grey Fox]

Did Garbon hack Tyr's account?

[garbon]

I wouldn't say anything like that.