Calling Languish parents: Why did you decide to have children?

[MadImmortalMan]

Until contraception was invented, it wasn't nearly the deliberate decision it is now either.

[The Brain]

"Biology" is the answer? Of course! I see it clearly now.

[Berkut]

And to be clear, I'm not debating that biology plays a role in the desire to have children, but I don't see how that's relevant to what Marti asked / Marti's troll.

But Marty's troll is of course exactly related to that - he is asking us to justify why we want to have children, so he can tell us how wrong we are and feel smug about himself.

But he might as well demand that people justify why they eat, or fuck, or whatever. Because the realization that one does not have to have children even if their biology creates the desire is no more valid at its core than realizing that just because it feels good to have sex, that doesn't mean you NEED to do it.

Plenty of asthetics, for example, forgo sex and seem to think that works out well for them. However, most of them are self-aware enough not to then make the mistake of demanding that those who DO have sex justify it, as if NOT having sex really is the presumptive norm.

What you don't seem to realize is that I am responding to Marty's troll with a "troll" of my own. The only way for his troll to work is for the respondent to presume that the question has merit by making assumption that are incorrect - namely that biological desire needs to be somehow justified, but only when it comes to procreation. I am simply pointing out that it is no different than any other biological behaviour that we are programmed to enjoy.

I have kids because I enjoy (overall) the experience of having children. I reject the presumption that there is anything "selfish" in this, at least in the sense that selfish is used as a pejorative. I enjoy having kids, my kids are better off for existing rather than not, hence it is a rather simple net evaluation.

[The Brain]

What's the sound of one poster digging?

[garbon]

What you don't seem to realize is that I am responding to Marty's troll with a "troll" of my own.

Could have just said this rather than boggling at me / having others defend your statement.

[Ideologue]

Until contraception was invented, it wasn't nearly the deliberate decision it is now either.

The facial was one of humanity's earliest inventions, predating the wheel in many cultures.

[crazy canuck]

Why are you gay Marti?  Simple question.

[11B4V]

Until contraception was invented, it wasn't nearly the deliberate decision it is now either.

The facial was one of humanity's earliest inventions, predating the wheel in many cultures.

[Fireblade]

Because mere latex and birth control pills are too weak to hold back my seed.

[Neil]

The minute Martinus says that someone else is immoral and selfish, he loses all credibility.

[Neil]

When Mart posts, this is what I visualize:

For me it's more like:

For me it's more like:

[The Brain]

Ah, Tolstoy.

[Razgovory]

The minute Martinus says that someone else is immoral and selfish, he loses all credibility.

He must have said that sometime in 2001 or something.

[Barrister]

Until contraception was invented, it wasn't nearly the deliberate decision it is now either.

The facial was one of humanity's earliest inventions, predating the wheel in many cultures.

Probably not.

I was at a lecture several years ago when the speaker went off on a sidetrack about how pronography had changed society's sexual expectations.  He was talking about anal sex in particular - that 40-50 years ago to see an anal sexual assault was extremely rare.  Now it is fairly commonplace.  The "biological imperative" hasn't changed, but access to sexually explicit material has.

In other words - if you had been born even a mere 100 years ago you probably would have no idea what a "facial" is, and have no interest in performing it.

[garbon]

Until contraception was invented, it wasn't nearly the deliberate decision it is now either.

The facial was one of humanity's earliest inventions, predating the wheel in many cultures.

Probably not.

I was at a lecture several years ago when the speaker went off on a sidetrack about how pronography had changed society's sexual expectations.  He was talking about anal sex in particular - that 40-50 years ago to see an anal sexual assault was extremely rare.  Now it is fairly commonplace.  The "biological imperative" hasn't changed, but access to sexually explicit material has.

In other words - if you had been born even a mere 100 years ago you probably would have no idea what a "facial" is, and have no interest in performing it.

I'm not really sure how your anecdote relates to what Ide said.  After all, anal sex still existed even when most people didn't have access to sexually explicit material.