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Naval Warfaretards/Churchillians, to me!

Started by CountDeMoney, May 24, 2012, 06:40:38 AM

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Syt

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on May 24, 2012, 10:27:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 10:23:34 PM
They took on the task of transforming a country full of Nazis and Nazi accomplices into a country full of pacifist Euroweenies.  I don't see how that could be accomplished without firebombing.



I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

grumbler

Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Yea..lol, battleships contributed greatly in WW2..... :rolleyes: made nice artificial reefs.

Battleships were a key element of sea control until the development of torpedoes effect enough to hit and sink them were deployed.  Do some reading on the war in the Med, and you will understand why it is absurd to argue that battleships didn't contribute to the allied victory in the war.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 10:19:37 PM
You know no such thing. :angry:  Battleships have managed to do practically nothing since their advent--except get sunk by airplanes.

Yep.  Airplanes sank 1,391 battleships in the war, if you believe their pilots.

QuoteWell there was that one time they sunk each other then proceeded to never even leave port again till the war was over, and that one time Dreadnought ran over a submarine by accident, and OK there was Glorious and Taffy 3, but otherwise.

Well, they never left port like the bombers never took off, except when the bombers took off and missed their target cities by miles.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

11B4V

Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2012, 06:50:03 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Yea..lol, battleships contributed greatly in WW2..... :rolleyes: made nice artificial reefs.

Battleships were a key element of sea control until the development of torpedoes effect enough to hit and sink them were deployed.  Do some reading on the war in the Med, and you will understand why it is absurd to argue that battleships didn't contribute to the allied victory in the war.

I didnt say they didnt contribute. Just not greatly. Read the post you quoted. :rolleyes:
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

grumbler

Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 10:23:34 PM
They took on the task of transforming a country full of Nazis and Nazi accomplices into a country full of pacifist Euroweenies.  I don't see how that could be accomplished without firebombing.

If not one bomber ever flew against the German cities, the Soviets would have accomplished what they did (" transforming a country full of Nazis and Nazi accomplices into a country full of pacifist Euroweenies") anyway.  Bombers helped by forcing the Germans to use up ammunition decimating the bomber raids, but the Sovs would have gotten there in the end without them.  The money spent on bomber command and Eighth and Twentieth Air Forces would have been better spent on tactical and operational air power and getting more trucks to the USSR.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on May 24, 2012, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 09:35:17 PM
And they're useful in the maritime strike/maritime reconnaissance role too.  But we both know that. :contract:

P-3 is a much better strike/recon platform.
A pproperly equipped B-52 would put the P-3 to shame in this role.  The P-3 was a great plane for the mission, but certainly was much more constrained by cost than the Buffs were.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:02:07 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2012, 06:50:03 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Yea..lol, battleships contributed greatly in WW2..... :rolleyes: made nice artificial reefs.

Battleships were a key element of sea control until the development of torpedoes effect enough to hit and sink them were deployed.  Do some reading on the war in the Med, and you will understand why it is absurd to argue that battleships didn't contribute to the allied victory in the war.

I didnt say they didnt contribute. Just not greatly. Read the post you quoted. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:  I read it, and am agreeing with you that " battleships contributed greatly in WW2."  Even an elementary examination of the war at sea would tell you that.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

11B4V

Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2012, 07:12:28 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:02:07 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2012, 06:50:03 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Yea..lol, battleships contributed greatly in WW2..... :rolleyes: made nice artificial reefs.

Battleships were a key element of sea control until the development of torpedoes effect enough to hit and sink them were deployed.  Do some reading on the war in the Med, and you will understand why it is absurd to argue that battleships didn't contribute to the allied victory in the war.

I didnt say they didnt contribute. Just not greatly. Read the post you quoted. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:  I read it, and am agreeing with you that " battleships contributed greatly in WW2."  Even an elementary examination of the war at sea would tell you that.

No they didnt.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

grumbler

Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:13:37 AM
No they didnt.

Make up you mind!

In any case, you argument here is very compelling.... to a seven-year-old.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

11B4V

Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2012, 07:47:08 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:13:37 AM
No they didnt.

Make up you mind!

In any case, you argument here is very compelling.... to a seven-year-old.

No reason for ad homs
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

grumbler

Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:48:26 AM
No reason for ad homs

Indeed, not.  That's probably why there haven't been any.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

PDH

Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2012, 07:47:08 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:13:37 AM
No they didnt.

Make up you mind!

In any case, you argument here is very compelling.... to a seven-year-old.

No reason for ad homs

:rolleyes:  That is more of a demeaning metaphor than an ad hom.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

11B4V

Quote from: PDH on May 25, 2012, 08:37:08 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2012, 07:47:08 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 07:13:37 AM
No they didnt.

Make up you mind!

In any case, you argument here is very compelling.... to a seven-year-old.

No reason for ad homs

:rolleyes:  That is more of a demeaning metaphor than an ad hom.

Well of course... :rolleyes:
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Grey Fox

Back to talking about Boats, damn it.

WOuld you say that defeat in Vietnam is a direct correlation of having no(or enough) Battleship engage?
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

PDH

If the Iowa could have been dropped from orbit onto the Ho Chi Minh Trail it would have been interesting.  Tim, discuss.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM