Civil Unrest in Quebec

[Grallon]

Um I highly doubt anybody here uncritically accepts whatever Grallon has to say.  Unless you mean here as in Quebec.

What's that supposed to mean? 

In any case I've been in favor of the tuition increase since the beginning - and I still am.  But I became firmly supportive of the protests when it became clear this government was manipulating the students in the hope of weaseling its way out of the looming defeat its own systemic corruption was about to bring.  This country cannot afford another Liberal mandate.

EDIT: I should say 'in favor of some sort of tuition increase'.  The most reasonable proposal is one circulating more and more now: a proportional yearly indexation.



G.

[Zoupa]

The authorities can just do no wrong eh?

Authorities can do all kinds of wrong.  But this particular case is not, AFAICT, one of authorities acting illegally.  It's one of a minority objecting to the decision of a legally constituted government to give them less free money than before.

Less free money? Lolwut?

I'm not sure why the fuck I'm paying way more taxes than the rest of the country. The whole point is so we get cheaper social services. If they're gonna start charging as much as Ontario for school fees, then they better cut taxes.

[Habsburg]

Less free money? Lolwut?

I'm not sure why the fuck I'm paying way more taxes than the rest of the country. The whole point is so we get cheaper social services. If they're gonna start charging as much as Ontario for school fees, then they better cut taxes.

This.

[Neil]

The authorities can just do no wrong eh?

Authorities can do all kinds of wrong.  But this particular case is not, AFAICT, one of authorities acting illegally.  It's one of a minority objecting to the decision of a legally constituted government to give them less free money than before.

Less free money? Lolwut?

I'm not sure why the fuck I'm paying way more taxes than the rest of the country. The whole point is so we get cheaper social services. If they're gonna start charging as much as Ontario for school fees, then they better cut taxes.

Your taxes are needed to maintain the construction scams that keep Don Corleone rich and Jean Charest in charge.  And Grey Wolf's kid in daycare.

[Grey Fox]

That's right! Vote Liberal.

[Grey Fox]

Um I highly doubt anybody here uncritically accepts whatever Grallon has to say.  Unless you mean here as in Quebec.

The Quebecers of this forum who are overwhelmingly supportive of the student riots.  Only Oex has not posted about it, so I don't know what he thinks.
Though I have had discussion with some of his colleagues, and they think the same as Drakken and GF.

You know I'm only in favor of the students riots because it fucks with the esthablish order & that's something we desperetly need.

[Neil]

That's right! Vote Liberal.

You don't even get mad anymore about people messing up your nick. 

What about if we called you Gay Fox?

[dps]

That's right! Vote Liberal.

You don't even get mad anymore about people messing up your nick. 

What about if we called you Gay Fox?

It's been done.  It hasn't been a fresh insult since we all came here from Paradox OT and realized that not only could we discuss topics here that were banned there, we could also get away with a lot more strong language, sexual innuendo, and name-calling.

[garbon]

OWS is chilling in Washington Square Park in solidarity with these students.  There is probably only about 20 people but there are like 40 cops.

[Habsburg]

OWS is chilling in Washington Square Park in solidarity with these students.  There is probably only about 20 people but there are like 40 cops.

LOLz, OWS in Seattle is always a "crowd" of 80 at Westlake Center.  They bunch 50 together and spread the other 30 out in hopes it will look bigger. 

[Grey Fox]

That's right! Vote Liberal.

You don't even get mad anymore about people messing up your nick. 

What about if we called you Gay Fox?

That never bothered me.

[Admiral Yi]

It's un peu amusant that you don't mind Gay Fox but being called your real name deranges you very beaucoup.

[viper37]

when it became clear this government was manipulating the students in the hope of weaseling its way out of the looming defeat its own systemic corruption was about to bring.

It became clear to me around February, yet, I still don't support the student's "cause".
Just because someone sets a trap for you, you don't have to jump right in it.

As I said before, all the students had to do was to play the gov't game, agree with the general principle of a tuition increase, but negociate for a softer hike, an increase in student's financial help and a guarantee that their other fees would decrease immediatly, and maybe even permanently if it can be proven that there is indeed a lot of waste in universities (there is waste, but not enough to make it 0$/term, really, that should be obvious). 

Right now, they look like spoiled kids who don't know what they want.  Whenever teachers ask for better&bigger single offices (instead of sharing one), they approve. When they ask of a pay increase, they approve.  They want smaller classes and less hours, they approve.  They don't want to be evaluated, they approve.  Yet, they want free or nearly free tuition fees.  It is illogical.

This country cannot afford another Liberal mandate.

The country will do fine, it's my actual province I fear for

EDIT: I should say 'in favor of some sort of tuition increase'.  The most reasonable proposal is one circulating more and more now: a proportional yearly indexation.

not enough, imho.
But we should have tuition fees modulated by field of study.  Some specialties cost more than others.  If social sciences believe they can do away with computers to save money, so be it (it was one of the student's proposals to freeze the computer budget, btw, among other things wich would have sacrificed more performing faculties; talk about "solidarity".)

[viper37]

I'm not sure why the fuck I'm paying way more taxes than the rest of the country. The whole point is so we get cheaper social services. If they're gonna start charging as much as Ontario for school fees, then they better cut taxes.

You still get free health care coverage, 7$ a day childcare that actually costs you more than before when you had the tax break (while costing more to the State, yeah socialism!), free/nearly free education from elementary to college (I don't think they have free college education in Ontario), you'll still be paying 2000$ less than the average Ontarian to send you kids to school, you still have non toll-pay roads except one bridge to cross over to Laval (great bridge btw!) and one future maybe on the south shore.  You still get free in vitro fertilisation for your girlfriend, provided you wait a couple of years on the waiting list.  You still have the priviledge of coming to a publicly paid arena in Quebec city, and you kept the Canadians because the government intervend to keep it in Montreal when it was sold to Gillet, before the Molson re-acquired it.  Oh, and you have Formula 1 racing because you pay way more taxes than the rest of the country, don't forget it.

And in a not so distant future, you might even have a baseball team again in Montreal.  With a newly built stadium paid for by the province and the city.

And my home town thanks you very much for giving us a contract at twice the price to build new wagons for your metro transit system.  The Mexicans and the Chinese building some of the parts also thank you.  This is another reason why you pay a lot more taxes than the rest of the country.

Also, Éric Lapointe would like to thank you for subsidizing his cocaine consumption, and Xavier Dolan is really happy of the free trips to Cannes, and so are the 2 dozen people accompanying him from Quebec's delegation, all in first class airplan and hotel
'tis another reason why you pay more taxes than the rest of the country, Canadians don't really have a culture, their good directors and comedians prefer to work in Hollywood for 8 times the salary and books as well as painting aren't really subsidized (not to the extent of television and cinema).  Unless it's a portrait of her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II, or someone else from the Royal family.

So basically, until you vote for a party promising to cut spending (for wich there are now a grand total of 0), you are fucked.  You will always pay more taxes than the rest of the country, even if the tuition fees where to increase 10fold, it still would not cover for the other expenses of our government.

And I am not trolling you, I am dead serious.  You just don't seem to realize how much we are a socialist nation and how much more we are spending on dumb stuff just to please the populace compared to the other provinces. 

We ain't Alberta, we don't have nearly as much oil and the little we have, most people don't want to touch it.  Natural gaz is even worst.  Also, let's not touch the mines, strange things might come out of the earth.  And don't talk about building a new dam, some artist is gonna come down on us.

So basically, we have natural resources we don't want to exploit, we have costly&inefficient services we don't want to cut, the medias have us convinced that any single cut in a government budget, no matter where, no matter how deep or light will threaten the space-time continuum and a populace generally as ignorant of financial&economics matter as the average Albertan redneck is of science.

Oh, I forgot: it says "Videotron" on your cable bill, not "Rogers", because the government intervene to keep this company here, paying the penalties and striking the asset from its books because it became worthless after a few years (yet, Mr Péladeau doesn't seem so bad).

So that's why, in essence, you pay more taxes than everywhere in Canada.  3 major political parties propose you pay more and one that you pay the same but make things a little different.  The one that propose you pay less and stop paying for things that lead to abuse like school boards who let their schools rot or public childcare program that means the biggest contributor to the party in power gets the license is no longer existent.  Their program was not popular enough for my fellow Quebecer, hence it disapeared.  I was disapointed, even frustrated.  But somehow, I managed to contain myself and not break any windows when I did not get what I wanted...  I must be some kind of superhuman

[viper37]

You know I'm only in favor of the students riots because it fucks with the esthablish order & that's something we desperetly need.

it fucks the middle class people trying to get to work, it fucks the guy with the little corner store that can no longer get insurance and his forced to sell to a bigger company like Couche-Tard.
That's who you're fucking.  Not the "establishment".

Pierre-Karl Péladeau is still happy, and Desmarais is in Sagard, running his businesses from there, when he's not in Toronto.  So that makes 2 out of 5 billionaires who don't care about it, on a personal level.

But if you believe that calling Sophie Durocher a "fucking whore" because her husband is against the strike, be my guest.  I believe in freedom of expression, even when it's dumb.  I somehow doubt Stephen Harper and Jean Charest where deeply disturbed by the signs.