Obama Says Same-Sex Marriage Should Be Legal

[Valmy]

I'm not trying to convince you of that, I can assure you.

Heh just giving you a hard time Spicey.

I have full confidence that this move was done after very carefully coming to the conclusion it would help his chances in November.  You may be right and he has miscalculated but I doubt it, the Democrats know pandering.

[Faeelin]

have full confidence that this move was done after very carefully coming to the conclusion it would help his chances in November.  You may be right and he has miscalculated but I doubt it, the Democrats know pandering.

How's that mandate working out?

[derspiess]

I'm not trying to convince you of that, I can assure you.

Heh just giving you a hard time Spicey.

I have full confidence that this move was done after very carefully coming to the conclusion it would help his chances in November.  You may be right and he has miscalculated but I doubt it, the Democrats know pandering.

The whole thing might have been orchestrated, but I doubt it.  I think Obama's hand was forced and he made his evolutionary conclusion known before he had intended to do so.

[DontSayBanana]

I wonder when gay marriage will stop being a political issue, rehashed during every elections? Will Republicans drop it as a point once it gets passed nationally, or do you think they will make attempts for a while to reverse it?

Considering how hard they've been fighting to get Roe v. Wade overturned, I think it's safe to say we're in for a long, drawn-out fight, even long after it gets passed nationally.

[Martinus]

I wonder when gay marriage will stop being a political issue, rehashed during every elections? Will Republicans drop it as a point once it gets passed nationally, or do you think they will make attempts for a while to reverse it?

Considering how hard they've been fighting to get Roe v. Wade overturned, I think it's safe to say we're in for a long, drawn-out fight, even long after it gets passed nationally.

I don't think these are comparable. Abortion is a completely different issue, morally, to gay marriage - the latter being more comparable to stuff like segregation. I can see abortion being a moral issue in 20 or 50 years - on the other hand, if gay marriage is passed today, in 10 years from now people will just shrug and wonder why it has ever been an issue.

Plus there is the whole constitutional nightmare of reversing gay marriage when people actually will get married and acquire existing rights and obligations.

[alfred russel]

While Obama works to be on teh right side of history, the Washington Post has an in depth look at the boarding school days of Romney which apparently included some rather severe bullying of a gay student:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html

[derspiess]

Obama ate a dog.

[CountDeMoney]

Obama ate a dog.

After years of systematic torture, Mitt's dog wished he was.

[The Brain]

Obama ate a dog.

Ate or ate?

[derspiess]

Obama ate a dog.

After years of systematic torture, Mitt's dog wished he was.

I wonder if Mitt cut his dog's hair against its will.

[CountDeMoney]

Obama ate a dog.

After years of systematic torture, Mitt's dog wished he was.

I wonder if Mitt cut his dog's hair against its will.

Hosed him down like Shawshank.

[MadImmortalMan]

I don't think these are comparable. Abortion is a completely different issue, morally, to gay marriage - the latter being more comparable to stuff like segregation. I can see abortion being a moral issue in 20 or 50 years - on the other hand, if gay marriage is passed today, in 10 years from now people will just shrug and wonder why it has ever been an issue.

Plus there is the whole constitutional nightmare of reversing gay marriage when people actually will get married and acquire existing rights and obligations.

I think this is right. It won't matter in a decade or so.

I do wonder about those people who did get married and then it was re-outlawed. In California, I know the marriages are still valid. One of my employees in SF is legally still married under these terms.

[garbon]

My point is your depiction of what happened in NY has little relation to  what actually happened. You had some rich NYC republicans throwing money to persuade four republicans to change their votes, along with 28 democrats.

That's... not a bipartisan consensus.

My depiction of what happened in New York was that gay activists and, even wealthy class traitor gays, worked hard to make this  very political issue not a massive partisan one - so did Cuomo.  The votes at the end of that are irrelevant it was about making gay marriage the issue which Democrats came to and some Republicans did too.  The worry I have with this is that gay marriage becomes a 'Democrat issue' like climate change, for example, which I think would be counter-productive.

So it's not a bipartisan consensus - I think consensus is dead.  But it's better than this issue becoming a campaign prop for one party.

It has long been a Dem vs. Repub issue. To suggest otherwise is to feign ignorance. Only change I see is that whereas in the last 20 years Repubs whipped up a frenzy over the issue and Dems were lukewarm, now Dens support and Repubs often dodge the issue.

[DGuller]

My point is your depiction of what happened in NY has little relation to  what actually happened. You had some rich NYC republicans throwing money to persuade four republicans to change their votes, along with 28 democrats.

That's... not a bipartisan consensus.

My depiction of what happened in New York was that gay activists and, even wealthy class traitor gays, worked hard to make this  very political issue not a massive partisan one - so did Cuomo.  The votes at the end of that are irrelevant it was about making gay marriage the issue which Democrats came to and some Republicans did too.  The worry I have with this is that gay marriage becomes a 'Democrat issue' like climate change, for example, which I think would be counter-productive.

So it's not a bipartisan consensus - I think consensus is dead.  But it's better than this issue becoming a campaign prop for one party.

It has long been a Dem vs. Repub issue. To suggest otherwise is to feign ignorance. Only change I see is that whereas in the last 20 years Repubs whipped up a frenzy over the issue and Dems were lukewarm, now Dens support and Repubs often dodge the issue.

I really don't know what Sheilbh is talking about.

[garbon]

I'm glad kindle changed Dems to Dens.