More Breivik Trial Idiocy.

[mongers]

Alternatively, you could admit to the probability that its neither ie bollocks.

Alternatively, I could stand on my head while juggling pumpkins.

That's could work, it's certainly more attractive that your earlier strawman. 

[Admiral Yi]

Okay.  I disagree with more or less all parts of the statement.  But I don't understand your two points.  I'm sorry but could you spell them out a bit.

As soon as I catch this last pumpkin.

Native Norwegians have customs, some if not all worth preserving.

Immigrants to Norway presumably don't have all the same customs.

Some Norwegian customs depend for their practice upon a critical mass of neighbors obeying the same unwritten rules.  Paying taxes, crime in general, honesty, things like that come to mind.  Leaving doors unlocked maybe.  Whatever.

These benevolent customs could be lost if immigrants arrived in sufficient numbers and did not assimilate, i.e. aquire the same benevolent habits.

So evil liberal PC whatever guys (whatever term Viking used) who favor large scale immigration and who resisit efforts to "impose the dominant culture" on immigrants will achieve the end of destroying the native population's cultural capital.

[Zoupa]

I think he means Breivik's hypothesis of quisling multiculturalism.

The idea that there is a political and philosophical class within a western society which is willfully sabotaging it's heritage knowingly turning over the society to barbaric non-western populations.

It's a load of bollocks.

But powerful.  Ask all the European Jews.... wait.  There are none to ask.

There are about 2 million Jews in Europe.

[Ed Anger]

I think he means Breivik's hypothesis of quisling multiculturalism.

The idea that there is a political and philosophical class within a western society which is willfully sabotaging it's heritage knowingly turning over the society to barbaric non-western populations.

It's a load of bollocks.

But powerful.  Ask all the European Jews.... wait.  There are none to ask.

There are about 2 million Jews in Europe.

THAT NUMBER SEEMS ARTIFICIALLY LOW.

[Zoupa]

PUNCH WAS SERVED! CHECK VIT POLAND!

[Ed Anger]

 

[Admiral Yi]

France's greatest war crime was shipping off trains full of Jews and leaving Gertrude Stein.

[Sheilbh]

That's all reasonably fair.  I can't comment on Scandinavia specifically and wouldn't ask any of our Scandis for comment because they're all, I think, more or less suspicious of immigration.  Though they're not all Slargos.

I'm unsure that the lack of assimilation is present, I'm also unsure that immigration's having the effect described.  As I say I don't know Scandinavia well enough and I'm not willing to trust Slarg's comments about all rapes being committed by Somalis and so on.

However I cannot think of any mainstream party in Europe any more that is so PC as to oppose integration, or to favour large scale immigration.  That conversation was pertinent a decade ago.  Since then no single issue has so dominated European politics - the economy's probably overtaken it in the last year or two.  Nothing has caused more politicians to give speeches ('multiculturalism has failed, failed utterly', 'state multiculturalism has failed', 'there are too many foreigners') and I can't think of any that was a defence of immigration or of a liberal and tolerant attitude to immigrants.  All through this there have been numerous policy initiatives and tortured conversations over national identity.

There's no sabotage.  There's no great threat in these 'un-integrated non-westerners'.  And it's certainly not unknowingly.  It's nonsense with, possibly, a grain of truth before 9/11 but even then I'm not convinced.  That this is deliberate and imposed by a 'PC elite' is bullshit and it's the European populist right's new stabbed in the back myth.  And I think it's now caused deaths and will cause more unless it's confronted not quietly acquiesced to as respectable opinion.

But let's be clear that in the context of Breivik and I think the comments around him we're not talking about a change in social trust brought on by mass migration from anywhere.  The conversation's about a change in the nature of society because of Muslims.

[Admiral Yi]

But let's be clear that in the context of Breivik and I think the comments around him we're not talking about a change in social trust brought on by mass migration from anywhere.  The conversation's about a change in the nature of society because of Muslims.

Not sure I see the importance of this distinction.

[Capetan Mihali]

I'm not claiming his removal was wrong, I'm annoyed that the appearance of a fair trail is being diminished by sloppyness. The failure lies in allowing this man onto the jury to begin with. It was important to maintain not only the fact of a fair trial but also the appearance of a fair trial.

I don't know how Norway does jury selection, but presumably they have to take people at their word when they talk about their prejudices and don't ordinarily do an extensive background check on prospective jurors...

[grumbler]

I'm not claiming his removal was wrong, I'm annoyed that the appearance of a fair trail is being diminished by sloppyness. The failure lies in allowing this man onto the jury to begin with. It was important to maintain not only the fact of a fair trial but also the appearance of a fair trial.

I don't know how Norway does jury selection, but presumably they have to take people at their word when they talk about their prejudices and don't ordinarily do an extensive background check on prospective jurors...

You mean that they don't read everything ever posted or written by all of the prospective jurors?  That's very sloppy.

[Sheilbh]

Not sure I see the importance of this distinction.

I think these sort of views are a bit more insidious and suspicious when they're targeted against one group.

[The Brain]

I don't know much about Norway (this is quite intentional) but for Sweden the following is true.

The mass immigration of uneducated people from strange cultures has always been at odds with the opinion of large parts of the population. The exact numbers are difficult to gauge since there never was a referendum and it's never been the main issue in a general election.

Questioning the wisdom of said mass immigration is and has been taboo. If you do you are branded a racist. Cracks in the taboo has begun to appear the past 10 years though.

Our PM has stated that only barbarism is native to Sweden, everything else has come from abroad. Considering Sweden's history and contributions to society this is an obvious lie, and it is also a lie that isn't appreciated by people with nationalist tendencies.

In short, the idea of a conspiracy may possibly be wrong, but if so it's not very wrong. What's problematic about ABB's ideas isn't that mass immigration of the kind we have is retarded (it probably is) but that the answer to it is terrorism.

[Viking]

There are about 2 million Jews in Europe.

Yes, but the largest and most prominent group are sephardic jews who fled arab persecution after the creation of Israel to France.

[Tamas]

That's all reasonably fair.  I can't comment on Scandinavia specifically and wouldn't ask any of our Scandis for comment because they're all, I think, more or less suspicious of immigration.  Though they're not all Slargos.

This is a general attitude which I dislike very much. I am fully aware how the topic of cultural conflict of immigrants and natives is ruled by xenophobic nazis, but that very attitude you show is the #1 reason for that.

What attitude? That you dismiss the "ground level" reports and opinion on the issue, because they all contradict your stance, and the "head to the sand" stance of the left on the whole thing.

Should you consider the Languish Scandis as statistically significant? No. Should you consider their concerns valid, if all seem to share them? Yes.

Just like Yi outlined: there are various customs in different cultures which are simply not compatible, and one of these competing customs will eventually yield and die out.
This is not a matter of deciding which is better, by the way, since that is relative.

I just don't feel I have the right to deny the natives' right to try and defend their own cultural aspects which are, due to their nature, vulnerable to immigration by other cultures.