Are gays overrepresented among horror story creators and if so why?

[CountDeMoney]

But I find things like 'Braveheart's' portrayal of Edward II and his lover as effeminate gays stereotypes pretty annoying.  Because both men absolutely conformed to their time's standards of masculinity.

Oh please, even Marlowe knew Eddie the Duece was a leatherboy.

[Valmy]

Oh please, even Marlowe knew Eddie the Duece was a leatherboy.

He had a mistress and illegitmate children and made his best efforts at being a warlord like any king should be. 

[CountDeMoney]

Oh please, even Marlowe knew Eddie the Duece was a leatherboy.

He had a mistress and illegitmate children and made his best efforts at being a warlord like any king should be.

Yeah, and Oscar Wilde had kids, too.  Didn't make his loafers any heavier.

[Valmy]

Yeah, and Oscar Wilde had kids, too.  Didn't make his loafers any heavier.

Ok so I should...what ignore pieces evidence from the period and just assume he had an identity based on a concept that did not exist?

Oh and Marlowe lived like 300 years after he was dead.

[Sheilbh]

Ok so I should...what ignore pieces evidence from the period and just assume he had an identity based on a concept that did not exist?

Well Medieval chroniclers did call their love boundless and 'undue' and at least one relatively contemporary chronicle just says Edward 'particularly delighted in the vice of sodomy' ('in vitio sodomitico nimium delectabat') so there's some evidence at the time.  But again the identity's a red herring - no-one's talking about that because it's so deeply anachronistic.  It'd be like saying Richard II was metrosexual. 

Having said that Edward lost a civil war so it's more than possible that his enemies threw everything at him in the chronicles to justify their own action.  Similarly I do wonder if Marlowe's Edward is like Shakespeare's Richard in casting a very long shadow on the actual man.  I think the sexuality of Edward is just part of a Marlovian overreacher.  It's like Faust's thirst for knowledge, Barabas's cruelty or Tamburlaine's heresy - it's a small individual vice that in some way represents the whole character's moral failings.

[Razgovory]

Oh and Marlowe lived like 300 years after he was dead.

Same thing with me.  I've live a long time after I was dead.

[CountDeMoney]

Having said that Edward lost a civil war so it's more than possible that his enemies threw everything at him in the chronicles to justify their own action.  Similarly I do wonder if Marlowe's Edward is like Shakespeare's Richard in casting a very long shadow on the actual man.  I think the sexuality of Edward is just part of a Marlovian overreacher.  It's like Faust's thirst for knowledge, Barabas's cruelty or Tamburlaine's heresy - it's a small individual vice that in some way represents the whole character's moral failings.

Unfortunately--and this is where I'll just go ahead and contradict my premise about gays gaying up historical figures--you can't necessarily discount vice as the root cause for moral failing, considering it's so often the prime motivating factor.  At least in literature.

[Sheilbh]

Unfortunately--and this is where I'll just go ahead and contradict my premise about gays gaying up historical figures--you can't necessarily discount vice as the root cause for moral failing, considering it's so often the prime motivating factor.  At least in literature.

Agreed.  That's my point.  I think Edward's gayness in Marlowe as much a literary device than anything else.

[CountDeMoney]

Unfortunately--and this is where I'll just go ahead and contradict my premise about gays gaying up historical figures--you can't necessarily discount vice as the root cause for moral failing, considering it's so often the prime motivating factor.  At least in literature.

Agreed.  That's my point.  I think Edward's gayness in Marlowe as much a literary device than anything else.

I think we can all agree that Martinus is a overly dramatic fag for starting this thread.

Personally, I'm glad that the tweeners and soccer moms have co-opted the Vampire Motif from the gays.   That Anne Rice nonsense has been annoying for 20 years.

[garbon]

Unfortunately--and this is where I'll just go ahead and contradict my premise about gays gaying up historical figures--you can't necessarily discount vice as the root cause for moral failing, considering it's so often the prime motivating factor.  At least in literature.

Agreed.  That's my point.  I think Edward's gayness in Marlowe as much a literary device than anything else.

I think we can all agree that Martinus is a overly dramatic fag for starting this thread.

Personally, I'm glad that the tweeners and soccer moms have co-opted the Vampire Motif from the gays.   That Anne Rice nonsense has been annoying for 20 years.

Even the Twilight vampires come across as faggy...as one expects from individuals wearing body glitter.

[Martinus]

CdM, I could just as well turn the question around and ask why do you consider yourself Irish (to the point of having donated or at least verbally supported the IRA) even though you do not have any real connection to Ireland.

People crave identity, validation (as you put that) and sense of community. This sense of identity is both inclusionary ("there are other people like me") and exclusionary ("I'm different from other people because..."). Gays are a curious minority however because there is no inheritable culture there for obvious reasons (unlike the Jews, or the Irish, or the blacks, you can't just look to your parents for the cultural traits) - and since our own ethnic cultures usually (at least until recently) reject us, we try to find that kind of heritage in the "gays of old".

I think this is pretty obvious psychologically.

[dps]

CdM, I could just as well turn the question around and ask why do you consider yourself Irish (to the point of having donated or at least verbally supported the IRA) even though you do not have any real connection to Ireland.

People crave identity, validation (as you put that) and sense of community. This sense of identity is both inclusionary ("there are other people like me") and exclusionary ("I'm different from other people because..."). Gays are a curious minority however because there is no inheritable culture there for obvious reasons (unlike the Jews, or the Irish, or the blacks, you can't just look to your parents for the cultural traits) - and since our own ethnic cultures usually (at least until recently) reject us, we try to find that kind of heritage in the "gays of old".

I think this is pretty obvious psychologically.

But that just amounts to saying that you project gayness onto certain historical figures because you find it psychologically comforting to do so--it says nothing about whether or not those figures were in fact homosexual.

[garbon]

CdM, I could just as well turn the question around and ask why do you consider yourself Irish (to the point of having donated or at least verbally supported the IRA) even though you do not have any real connection to Ireland.

People crave identity, validation (as you put that) and sense of community. This sense of identity is both inclusionary ("there are other people like me") and exclusionary ("I'm different from other people because..."). Gays are a curious minority however because there is no inheritable culture there for obvious reasons (unlike the Jews, or the Irish, or the blacks, you can't just look to your parents for the cultural traits) - and since our own ethnic cultures usually (at least until recently) reject us, we try to find that kind of heritage in the "gays of old".

I think this is pretty obvious psychologically.

But that just amounts to saying that you project gayness onto certain historical figures because you find it psychologically comforting to do so--it says nothing about whether or not those figures were in fact homosexual.

His point is that it is always like that, not just for homosexuals but often for American claims to certain histories. After all if I claim Scottish ancestry, that's a rather nebulous description as Scots now are different from those individuals that were my ancestors and I'm very different from both.  When he reclaims some figures as gay, that really just means they share some sort of commonly labelled trait with him but has little to do with how similar their lifestyles really are.

It's a bit of a stretch but not terrible in Marti analogies.

[Razgovory]

I'm glad that Marty has proven himself useful and validated my theories.

[PDH]

I claim Californian ancestry, and I will fight to the death to keep it that way.