Is Obama a better president than George W. Bush?

[DGuller]

It's at "both are to blame, but Republicans moreso".

Meh.  They just got to it first.  A lot of political stunts are only considered "off the table" until somebody grows a pair and shows they're possible.  The republican agenda doesn't seem to be that popular, but now that the democrats have seen the tactic's efficacy, I fully expect them to pull the same stonewalling tactics if and when they find themselves in the same position that the republicans are currently in.

They'd be stupid not to, it's like refusing to use nuclear weapons when one side starts dropping them.  But that's the whole fucking reason why such stunts should be off the table in the first place.  After the first adopter gets his one-time advantage, both sides employ them, and in the end wind up in the same position relative to each other.  The whole country, on the other hand, is worse off due to the greater area of the earth being scorched.

Who's to blame for the resulting nuclear war?  You can be lazy and blame both sides for being bad, which seems to be a prerequisite for being considered a serious political thinker these days.  But that's dumb.  The side that gets the blame for the nuclear war is the side that first starts dropping nuclear weapons on the other side.  When the other side returns the favor, they aren't being just as bad, them returning the favor is merely one more consequence of the first side's original action to start dropping the nuclear bombs.

[Sheilbh]

You know I don't do sources. 

Half the revenue for Obamacare was raised by an increase in the Medicare tax.  That's real money.  The other half was raised by a promise to keep the Medicare reimbursement rate down.  That's fake money.

It's difficult to talk then because I'm not sure what you mean.  Do you mean the cuts to Medicare?

A big chunk of stimulus money was given to the the states to finance state employee salaries.  Who do state employees vote for?

Seriously?  I thought pork barrel meant things like the bridge to nowhere.

The biggest decrease in employment in the US has been public sector employees especially at a local level.  It's been a drag on recovery so far - local government had to make cuts almost as soon as the recession hit.  Financing state employees helps mitigate the effects of that.  I always thought that the funding for unemployment and states should have been separate from the stimulus but this is good policy that should have continued.

That's a little harsh.  Democrats weren't that bad during the Iraq war.

What do you mean by bad, what's your timeframe ('during the war' is very wide) and who do you mean by Democrats?

[Admiral Yi]

It's difficult to talk then because I'm not sure what you mean.  Do you mean the cuts to Medicare?

You can't cut Medicare because there's no Medicare budget.  Medicare reimbursement rates are what doctors get paid to perform a given procedure on a Medicare patient.

Seriously?  I thought pork barrel meant things like the bridge to nowhere.

Pork barrel means federal funds used to pay for local needs that help someone get reelected.

The biggest decrease in employment in the US has been public sector employees especially at a local level.  It's been a drag on recovery so far - local government had to make cuts almost as soon as the recession hit.  Financing state employees helps mitigate the effects of that.  I always thought that the funding for unemployment and states should have been separate from the stimulus but this is good policy that should have continued.

I've never seen anything that said the public sector lost more jobs than the construction industry or the financial sector.  What has been true is that during the recovery while the private sector has added jobs the public sector has continued to shed them.

What do you mean by bad, what's your timeframe ('during the war' is very wide) and who do you mean by Democrats?

I'm thinking in particular of the several efforts by Senate Democrats (including Barry O.) to tie continuing appropriations for the war to a withdrawal schedule prior to the Surge.

[garbon]

It's at "both are to blame, but Republicans moreso".

Meh.  They just got to it first.  A lot of political stunts are only considered "off the table" until somebody grows a pair and shows they're possible.  The republican agenda doesn't seem to be that popular, but now that the democrats have seen the tactic's efficacy, I fully expect them to pull the same stonewalling tactics if and when they find themselves in the same position that the republicans are currently in.

They'd be stupid not to, it's like refusing to use nuclear weapons when one side starts dropping them.  But that's the whole fucking reason why such stunts should be off the table in the first place.  After the first adopter gets his one-time advantage, both sides employ them, and in the end wind up in the same position relative to each other.  The whole country, on the other hand, is worse off due to the greater area of the earth being scorched.

Who's to blame for the resulting nuclear war?  You can be lazy and blame both sides for being bad, which seems to be a per-requisite for being considered a serious political thinker these days.  But that's dumb.  The side that gets the blame for the nuclear war is the side that first stops dropping nuclear weapons on the other side.  When the other side returns the favor, they aren't being just as bad, them returning the favor is merely one more consequence of the first side's original action to start dropping the nuclear bombs.

We don't need more Matti analogies.

[Sheilbh]

You can't cut Medicare because there's no Medicare budget.  Medicare reimbursement rates are what doctors get paid to perform a given procedure on a Medicare patient.

Okay they've been attacked by most Republicans as Medicare cuts.  What's your problem with it, how is it not real money?

Pork barrel means federal funds used to pay for local needs that help someone get reelected.

That's absurdly broad you could include literally any Federal spending spent at a local level in that.  Citizens Against Government Waste give the following characteristics of pork barrel:
Requested by only one chamber of Congress;
Not specifically authorized;
Not competitively awarded;
Not requested by the President;
Greatly exceeds the President's budget request or the previous year's funding;
Not the subject of congressional hearings; or
Serves only a local or special interest.
I'd say your stimulus 'pork barrel' fails on 1, 2, 3 (it went to all states), 4, 6 and 7.

I've never seen anything that said the public sector lost more jobs than the construction industry or the financial sector.  What has been true is that during the recovery while the private sector has added jobs the public sector has continued to shed them.

They've lost more than the financial sector, nowhere near as much as construction you're right.  But I meant during the recovery sorry.  Support for local government allowed them to postpone job cuts for a short while - it should have been more and longer until the recovery was a bit steadier (like now), instead of 2010 when the largest cuts were made.  That combined with Europe and the rest was a drag on the American recovery.

I'm thinking in particular of the several efforts by Senate Democrats (including Barry O.) to tie continuing appropriations for the war to a withdrawal schedule prior to the Surge.

Again have you any details?  The search I did in google found a bill without a withdrawal timetable (much to liberal Democrats annoyance) that passed in 2007 (just before the surge) with an 80-14 vote - though Obama and Clinton were among the 14.

Edit:  Also I don't remember any of those bills passing, so I don't see how they're an example of 'setting up political blockades and refusing to even open dialogue, effectively abusing a system that was designed from the ground up to enforce cooperation' given that Republicans won - despite not having a majority in either chamber.

[DGuller]

We don't need more Matti analogies.

You're getting really tiresome. 

[garbon]

We don't need more Matti analogies.

You're getting really tiresome. 

You're the one that brought in an analogy of a nuclear bomb.

[Razgovory]

A big chunk of stimulus money was given to the the states to finance state employee salaries.  Who do state employees vote for?

Depends on the state.  In Missouri, Republicans.  Many are unaware that they are paid by tax dollars.  Many were shocked when I pointed this out.

[DGuller]

We don't need more Matti analogies.

You're getting really tiresome. 

You're the one that brought in an analogy of a nuclear bomb.

Yes, to make a point about collateral damage and zero-sum nature of political wars.

[Berkut]

We don't need more Matti analogies.

You're getting really tiresome. 

You're the one that brought in an analogy of a nuclear bomb.

Yes, to make a point about collateral damage and zero-sum nature of political wars.

You know, I think Marty has poisoned the analogy well at Languish.

I think your analogy was very well made myself.

[CountDeMoney]

You know, I think Marty has poisoned the analogy well at Languish.

No, it was Siegy.

[garbon]

We don't need more Matti analogies.

You're getting really tiresome. 

You're the one that brought in an analogy of a nuclear bomb.

Yes, to make a point about collateral damage and zero-sum nature of political wars.

I don't think anything that has occurred to date is similar to that (as far as nuclear war) that such an appeal is illuminating.