Is Obama a better president than George W. Bush?

[derspiess]

Why would that be the case? Seems like we might just see a re-kindling of an independent Dem congress.

I find that very unlikely if the Dems regain congress and hold the Senate. 

Which btw my prediction at this point is that the GOP holds the House, takes the Senate, and Obama gets re-elected.  I know this is counter to what typically happens with presidential coattails, but that seems to be where momentum is carrying things.

[grumbler]

Actually, I do fault Obama on one particular point, and that was his hands-off approach to Congressional leadership:  for somebody coming from Chicago, when it came to Pelosi and Reid, he certainly didn't do it The Chicago Way.
Should've bashed their fucking heads together and told them who the fucking HNIC was.  But no, they were out of control.

Agreed.  I think he had policies he could have gotten implemented, but he left it to a bad Congressional leadership, and they couldn't have organized an orgy in a whorehouse.

[grumbler]

Rahm Emanuel's departure said it all.  If he were allowed to do what he needed to do--hell, if they even bothered to listen to him--things would've turned out differently.  They would've been better prepared for the adversarial approach the GOP and the Teabaggers were going to take re: Obama's "illegitimacy".

My reading is the Emmanuel was part of the problem, not part of the solution.  Picking him for CoS was, IMO, Obama's greatest mistake in staffing.

[Scipio]

I remain unconvinced that there is a substantial difference between Barry's big government ideas and George's big government ideas.  Obamacare is just the logical conclusion to the Medicare Part D benefit.

In the end, we will have single payer healthcare if Obamacare is declared unconstitutional, because we know single-payer is constitutional.  And if this is the best thing Barry can do, it ain't any worse than anything George did.  And the things I hoped Barry would do differently than George he hasn't, so eff him with a spoon.

[crazy canuck]

Who is Barry?

[Razgovory]

Who is Barry?

He is a Barrack of many names.

[CountDeMoney]

Rahm Emanuel's departure said it all.  If he were allowed to do what he needed to do--hell, if they even bothered to listen to him--things would've turned out differently.  They would've been better prepared for the adversarial approach the GOP and the Teabaggers were going to take re: Obama's "illegitimacy".

My reading is the Emmanuel was part of the problem, not part of the solution.  Picking him for CoS was, IMO, Obama's greatest mistake in staffing.

Then again, perhaps there weren't enough Rahm Emanuels in Der Weiss Haus.  THAT was the greater mistake. 

[derspiess]

In the end, we will have single payer healthcare if Obamacare is declared unconstitutional, because we know single-payer is constitutional.  And if this is the best thing Barry can do, it ain't any worse than anything George did.  And the things I hoped Barry would do differently than George he hasn't, so eff him with a spoon.

I think we'll eventually end up with something similar to Argentina: a "universal" government-run healthcare system that is so lousy only the poor will use it, and anyone who can afford to do so will effectively opt out by buying a private insurance plan that is mostly unregulated by the gov't.

[DontSayBanana]

Actually, I do fault Obama on one particular point, and that was his hands-off approach to Congressional leadership:  for somebody coming from Chicago, when it came to Pelosi and Reid, he certainly didn't do it The Chicago Way.
Should've bashed their fucking heads together and told them who the fucking HNIC was.  But no, they were out of control.

This, but honestly, I'd fault seeds that were in place prior to 2008.  We had the Tea Party nutjobs, and Congress was going to wait to see how they did to gauge how much they could get away with.  When the Tea Party did surprisingly well, all bets were off.  Compounding it was the fact that Blago and Burris showed you could even put the con back in Congress with enough balls.  Mix all that up together, and we've got one of the most self-serving, disloyal Congresses we've ever had.  That's why Boehner can't even wrangle the huge Republican majority he's got in the house- they're just completely out of control, and it's not going to get any better until we manage to kick some of the losers out of office.

[Josephus]

The trouble with Obama is he's a terrible haggler.
Knowing he faced opposition in Congress he should start his negotiations with something completely to the left, knowing that he'll be forced to compromise with something more in the middle.
Instead he started with something in the middle, and then compromised from there.

[derspiess]

Rahm Emanuel's departure said it all.  If he were allowed to do what he needed to do--hell, if they even bothered to listen to him--things would've turned out differently.  They would've been better prepared for the adversarial approach the GOP and the Teabaggers were going to take re: Obama's "illegitimacy".

My reading is the Emmanuel was part of the problem, not part of the solution.  Picking him for CoS was, IMO, Obama's greatest mistake in staffing.

Then again, perhaps there weren't enough Rahm Emanuels in Der Weiss Haus.  THAT was the greater mistake. 

Rahm was a strategic genius in 2008, but after that he became a liability to Obama.

[Sheilbh]

That's fine if he's a Congressional leader.  But he's a President who already had half the country ranting about socialism because he's passed what was, 5 years ago, a plausible Republican policy. 

I actually think the problem with Obama is that he talks the left but actually governs from the centre - which can end up confusing and annoying both, the left think he's spineless and the right think he's too lefty.  So in policy terms he wants stimulus but largely made up of tax cuts; he wants health care reform but not single payer.  But the language make it sound that, for example, he wished he could go for single payer.  I think he should have led the argument for tax cuts - which he always supported - and against the public option - which wasn't what he campaigned for.  That way the left may be disappointed - but that could happen because of his policies - but the centre wouldn't think he was yearning for a leftier option.

[CountDeMoney]

That's fine if he's a Congressional leader.  But he's a President who already had half the country ranting about socialism because he's passed what was, 5 years ago, a plausible Republican policy. 

I actually think the problem with Obama is that he talks the left but actually governs from the centre - which can end up confusing and annoying both, the left think he's spineless and the right think he's too lefty.

See, Shiv, this is where your over-educated British stoic intellect fails you.  You're overshooting.
The problem half the nation has with Obama is because he's black man.  Yes, it's actually that fucking simple over here.

[Razgovory]

That's fine if he's a Congressional leader.  But he's a President who already had half the country ranting about socialism because he's passed what was, 5 years ago, a plausible Republican policy. 

I actually think the problem with Obama is that he talks the left but actually governs from the centre - which can end up confusing and annoying both, the left think he's spineless and the right think he's too lefty.  So in policy terms he wants stimulus but largely made up of tax cuts; he wants health care reform but not single payer.  But the language make it sound that, for example, he wished he could go for single payer.  I think he should have led the argument for tax cuts - which he always supported - and against the public option - which wasn't what he campaigned for.  That way the left may be disappointed - but that could happen because of his policies - but the centre wouldn't think he was yearning for a leftier option.

I don't think anything could have helped that.  Obama could be Reagan-come-again and they still hate him.  Their reasoning is often alien and bizarre.  They are convinced that he's not an American citizen, that he won only because ACORN stole the election for him, that's he's blithering idiot who can only speak with teleprompter, that he's a front for the evil International Jew George Soros.  What can you do with such people?

[DGuller]

What can you do with such people?